Purpose of not separating eggs w/ legs and 1st instar into vials?

NChromatus

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I've been incubating a sac in a makeshift mechanical mom for the last twenty days, and I finally found the courage to open up the sac and peek in tonight. They were eggs with legs, and I was very pleased, because I wasn't sure that they would end up fertile. :clap:

I made such a small hole that I was able to use a very small amount of tape to close up the hole and put the sac back in the mechanical mom's cylinder.

But I'm finding myself wondering, having read quite a bit on the boards about this, what is the point of not separating the T's at, at the very latest, 1st instar?

I can see that maybe postembryos need to stay together and keep rotating (though I'm reading research on this board saying that's not true, they only need to rotate until the fluid dries), but why 1st instars?

I.E., why wait until the babies are eating at 2nd instar to separate? Why not do so earlier, to prevent cannibalization and to better keep an eye on them?

Or, could the cannibalization be important in some cases, providing extra nutrients to the living slings?

Any ideas?
 

Mack&Cass

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We received 3 C. fimbriatus slings as first instars...they molted into second instar and then all three died...one died right off the bat, the other died a few days later and the third died a couple weeks later (it had even eaten a few meals). I don't know if they were just weak, or if it was because they were seperated early, but we've never had Chilos just up and die on us and we've raised quite a few from slings.

Cannibalization has its advantages and disadvantages; the pros are that it manages your numbers (which is helpful with sacs from the likes of Lasiodora parahybana and Acanthoscurria geniculata) and it allows the stronger ones to pick off the weaker ones, so you can ensure a higher survival rate for the slings that get sold to people. The cons are that it's a potential loss of money, because for every sling eaten is money you could have made off that sling.

Personally I would wait until second instar to seperate, but you could always try a mini experiment...I'm not sure what species the eggsac it but if there are a lot of little ones you could take some or so of the sac and seperate at first instar and see how they do.

Cass
 

NChromatus

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We received 3 C. fimbriatus slings as first instars...they molted into second instar and then all three died...
Were they shipped as 1st instars? I would definitely never do that, would worry that they weren't formed well enough yet to handle the stress.

Noteworthy that one ate after it molted, too- no wet/early molt. Not sure what to make of that.
 

Mack&Cass

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Were they shipped as 1st instars? I would definitely never do that, would worry that they weren't formed well enough yet to handle the stress.

Noteworthy that one ate after it molted, too- no wet/early molt. Not sure what to make of that.
No, they weren't shipped.

Cass
 

BrettG

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Well,we just had a sack of 125+ A.metallica.I separated them into small deli cups with moist peat maybe 2 days before they molted to second instar. I did not have one loss,and it made my life easier due to not having to chase down 2nd instars all over our apt,like we have had to do before.I also think that there was more humidity in the deli's than my incubator,as I did not even have any stuck in molts( I normally have at least a few that I have to assist when using my ultra ghetto incubator)
 

WARPIG

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I'm all for letting mom raise the slings. I have yet to pull a sac and incubate. Like stated, some will get munched, I have had to pull moms to get at the slings, and yes its touch chasing 2nd instar, but unless its a really rare/expensive T, I'll let mom incubate.


PIG-
 

NChromatus

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...and it made my life easier due to not having to chase down 2nd instars all over our apt, like we have had to do before...
Yeah, this is a bigger issue than the cannibalization for me, which I can see the benefits of (healthier slings). I'm wondering exactly how I'm going to manage getting the second instars from the new hammock incubator (which I'm going to be transferring them into in a couple of days) into their vials- and how to keep them from getting out of the hammock and maybe drowning themselves in the water below once they're mobile.

It shouldn't be that difficult to put together some kind of set up but I do worry that I'm going to do something stupid resulting in disaster.
 

Crows Arachnids

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Seperating them at 1st instar is very much okay. I have noticed no adverse side effects from doing so.
 

Jmugleston

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I've separated slings at 1st instar with a couple species. I knew I was going to be out of town when they molted so I separated them a week or so before they molted. No ill effects were noticed here. I separate them at 2nd instar mainly to save on space and time. It is much easier to spray 600 spiders in a large container than it is to spray 600 individual vials.
 

NChromatus

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Seperating them at 1st instar is very much okay. I have noticed no adverse side effects from doing so.
Yeah, I was reading your thread from July, which was one of the most useful I've found- lots of information, Jonathan, thanks for it.
 
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