Pulchra having odd problems

[Izzyloo3]

generally, spazzing out and having heavy difficulty moving is DKS. or tarantula poisoning. only way this can be avoided to to not use chemicals around spiders, like at all. this is almost always fatal. i have had one survivor however, a N incei sling that molted out of it after surviving for weeks with it.
poisoning can happen from many different chemicals. think of which you have used in your tarantula room. perfume, air freshener, flea spray (?), insect repellant, etc.
what brand of vermiculite did you use? a good way to test for anything bad is to leave a few crickets in a container of it for a couple days. if the crickets dont die, its most likely safe.

I thought DKS, as well. I so wish I could post the video I took of him.... and I don't use ANY aerated chemicals in my house, especially not around my Ts. Perfume I use ONLY in my bathroom upstairs, whereas the tarantulas are downstairs. I use organic cleaning agents, no chemicals in my cats, no carpet powder or air spray. I wish it was something so easy to pinpoint. the vermiculite mix that he's on, he's been on for a while now, and I have had crickets live on it for a hot, also. (I have a tank where I keep bought crickets to gut load). I usually feed them dubias that I breed myself, feeding a diet of fresh fruits and veggies, and never using any chemicals near them, either. It just looks like he is in an immense amount of pain, and I can only compare what he looks like to a human trying to rip their skin off. It is heartbreaking to watch him. I'm going to try and upload the video.

 

[Izzyloo3]

I have the link to the video. I uploaded it to YouTube. Please know that I only did this to him twice-- once to try and look at his carapace, another for this video to record him. I hope someone can pinpoint what's going on, and I hope the link works.

 

[Venom1080]

I have the link to the video. I uploaded it to YouTube. Please know that I only did this to him twice-- once to try and look at his carapace, another for this video to record him. I hope someone can pinpoint what's going on, and I hope the link works.

looks exactly like DKS..

 

[Izzyloo3]

The curses that just came out of my mouth would make a sailor cry. Ugh. I don't know what to do, or how to go from here. For him to go from perfectly normal to THIS SEVERE quite literally overnight is astounding to me. Any and all help with this is appreciated.

 

[Venom1080]

The curses that just came out of my mouth would make a sailor cry. Ugh. I don't know what to do, or how to go from here. For him to go from perfectly normal to THIS SEVERE quite literally overnight is astounding to me. Any and all help with this is appreciated.

the guy in the video i linked ended up freezing his regalis..
never give up till its gone for sure though. Cold blood who responded earlier in this thread has a A avic sling that survived through with 2 legs, and ive had a N incei sling that survived DKS 7 months ago and has grown 3". tarantulas can do amazing things.
yours is fat, and may molt soon. id gently remove it from the icu and put it in its cage with its mouth parts in a shallow water dish. this worked for me. post molt, my incei was perfectly fine. do not get your hopes up though..

 

[Izzyloo3]

the guy in the video i linked ended up freezing his regalis..
never give up till its gone for sure though. Cold blood who responded earlier in this thread has a A avic sling that survived through with 2 legs, and ive had a N incei sling that survived DKS 7 months ago and has grown 3". tarantulas can do amazing things.
yours is fat, and may molt soon. id gently remove it from the icu and put it in its cage with its mouth parts in a shallow water dish. this worked for me. post molt, my incei was perfectly fine. do not get your hopes up though..

I am so weird about putting my babies in the freezer. It feels so wrong. Haha. My hopes are pretty much dashed at this point, so they can't get much lower. I'll take your advice, though, and get him back in his little home. Let's hope SOMETHING good happens. And they need to be kept away from others, right?

 

[Venom1080]

I am so weird about putting my babies in the freezer. It feels so wrong. Haha. My hopes are pretty much dashed at this point, so they can't get much lower. I'll take your advice, though, and get him back in his little home. Let's hope SOMETHING good happens. And they need to be kept away from others, right?

yeah, freezer is pretty much for a spider missing half a abdomen. its the literal last resort to save the animal some stress.
i dont think so. i kept my incei and ornata next to my others with no issues. you will want to rack your brain and try to figure out what went wrong. your other Ts may still be in danger.

 

[Izzyloo3]

yeah, freezer is pretty much for a spider missing half a abdomen. its the literal last resort to save the animal some stress.
i dont think so. i kept my incei and ornata next to my others with no issues. you will want to rack your brain and try to figure out what went wrong. your other Ts may still be in danger.

So, DKS is CAUSED by something? Everything I have read pretty much says it is a random occurrence. The only thing that I can think that is even mildly bad is using tap water for their drinking water. :/ otherwise.... there is nothing I can think of. Ever since I've had my Ts, I have been extremely careful....

 

[Izzyloo3]

I am also now extremely worried for his sack mate. :/ I wonder if DKS can be traced back to the original breeder?

 

[boina]

DKS is not a disease, it's just a symptom. There are a lot of things that can cause symptoms that look like DKS. Like a stomach ache: It can be bad food or it can be cancer or everything in between. Since it's just a symptom you don't know and might never know what the cause was.

All the best to your spider.

 

[Ellenantula]

I can only compare what he looks like to a human trying to rip their skin off. It is heartbreaking to watch him. I'm going to try and upload the video.

That's exactly what it looks like to me too ... a molting movement. A movement usually unseen since T is hidden inside the exo it is shedding, on its back. But the movement is identical to that I see in moulting videos immediately after T has pulled free from exo. It's the movement Ts appear to make throughout their shed, just not as obvious a movement since their legs are constricted by the exo it is shedding.
So, I would say it DOES look like it's trying to rip its skin off, notice yours is pulling it's legs inwards, as if trying to pull free from its exo.
But your T is no longer on its back, and is stressed and tired -- some 36 - 48 hours after he flipped but was then righted.
It could be yours is simply stuck now and cannot resume a moult.

That's just my take after viewing T movements in some time-lapse moulting vids and comparing those to the T movements in various "dks" vids.

 

[Izzyloo3]

That's exactly what it looks like to me too ... a molting movement. A movement usually unseen since T is hidden inside the exo it is shedding, on its back. But the movement is identical to that I see in moulting videos immediately after T has pulled free from exo. It's the movement Ts appear to make throughout their shed, just not as obvious a movement since their legs are constricted by the exo it is shedding.
So, I would say it DOES look like it's trying to rip its skin off, notice yours is pulling it's legs inwards, as if trying to pull free from its exo.
But your T is no longer on its back, and is stressed and tired -- some 36 - 48 hours after he flipped but was then righted.
It could be yours is simply stuck now and cannot resume a moult.

That's just my take after viewing T movements in some time-lapse moulting vids and comparing those to the T movements in various "dks" vids.

Yeah, it is just such a bizarre and horrifying thing to witness. I don't know how to help him.

 

[darkness975]

Where did you get the vermiculite from? Are you certain it was not laced with any chemicals ?

 

[Izzyloo3]

Where did you get the vermiculite from? Are you certain it was not laced with any chemicals ?

I got it from an organic local nursery a while back. I am 1000% sure there aren't any chemicals. I did, however, change out most of his substrate and put in straight eco earth.

 

[Venom1080]

So, DKS is CAUSED by something? Everything I have read pretty much says it is a random occurrence. The only thing that I can think that is even mildly bad is using tap water for their drinking water. :/ otherwise.... there is nothing I can think of. Ever since I've had my Ts, I have been extremely careful....

Yes. It doesn't just pop up out of the blue. I used like 5 year old peat moss that I stored in the barn for awhile for my ornata. I used it for my first spider and didbt think anything of it. Ornata died in two weeks. I opened the vial the incei was in when I bought it at an expo, contracted DKS within a week.
I use tap water as well, but some people use distilled or bottled water only.
I don't think it's molting. You can watch molt time lapses on YouTube, they don't look like that. But yes, DKS is the term used for tarantulas poisonijg, it doesn't mean but it actually stands for.

 

[Ellenantula]

You may never know for sure what happened. Whether moulting or dks -- some Ts simply don't make it.

We had a similar thread a while back: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/tarantula-with-dks-flipped-over.287041/

I do advise you watch a few moulting videos on youtube -- and remember -- the T itself is blocked in most vids by it's exo, so don't go by the movement of the visible shed exo but by the movements of the T itself underneath. Esp note the legs being pulled inwards as exo is finally dislodged. The "dks" vid posted here showed legs out and lifted more outwards -- the actual opposite of what yours was doing.

But remember -- if you continue to address this T as having dks symptoms -- are any of your other Ts using the substrate from same bag? Are they also exhibiting symptoms? Is there any chemical usage in the area of your Ts that could cause dks? Are any of your other Ts affected? Why only this one?

I always go for the more obvious explanation than strain for the more obscure and less convincing explanation.
You've got a fat-rumped pre-moult T that flipped on it's back. Logical conclusion? a moult -- not dks.
Your original concern seemed time based -- it was 'ten hours in" -- so time seemed more a concern than the Ts movements.
You claim to have an organic/natural products-only household & that you hand-raise your own feeders safely. Which is excellent.
So... not saying dks is impossible, but dks is the less likely option here -- whereas the more obvious option is a T moulting/being stuck in moult, imo.

Also, you did begin this thread with describing your T as "spazzing, curling his legs over his face, spreading fangs." When challenged that you had flipped a moulting T, you changed your description to "It was on its back, body bowed, writhing, BITING at the substrate.” Former description sounded like a moult, the latter sounded more like an anomaly.

I wish you had not flipped your T and let things play out. And I am so very sorry your T is going through this. I want to be hopeful but as more time passes, the less hopeful I feel.

 

[Izzyloo3]

You may never know for sure what happened. Whether moulting or dks -- some Ts simply don't make it.

We had a similar thread a while back: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/tarantula-with-dks-flipped-over.287041/

I do advise you watch a few moulting videos on youtube -- and remember -- the T itself is blocked in most vids by it's exo, so don't go by the movement of the visible shed exo but by the movements of the T itself underneath. Esp note the legs being pulled inwards as exo is finally dislodged. The "dks" vid posted here showed legs out and lifted more outwards -- the actual opposite of what yours was doing.

But remember -- if you continue to address this T as having dks symptoms -- are any of your other Ts using the substrate from same bag? Are they also exhibiting symptoms? Is there any chemical usage in the area of your Ts that could cause dks? Are any of your other Ts affected? Why only this one?

I always go for the more obvious explanation than strain for the more obscure and less convincing explanation.
You've got a fat-rumped pre-moult T that flipped on it's back. Logical conclusion? a moult -- not dks.
Your original concern seemed time based -- it was 'ten hours in" -- so time seemed more a concern than the Ts movements.
You claim to have an organic/natural products-only household & that you hand-raise your own feeders safely. Which is excellent.
So... not saying dks is impossible, but dks is the less likely option here -- whereas the more obvious option is a T moulting/being stuck in moult, imo.

Also, you did begin this thread with describing your T as "spazzing, curling his legs over his face, spreading fangs." When challenged that you had flipped a moulting T, you changed your description to "It was on its back, body bowed, writhing, BITING at the substrate.” Former description sounded like a moult, the latter sounded more like an anomaly.

I wish you had not flipped your T and let things play out. And I am so very sorry your T is going through this. I want to be hopeful but as more time passes, the less hopeful I feel.

I understand my explanations are a bit odd. He started out on his back, body bowed, and when I watched him without moving enclosure, he stayed to do the writhing around biting at the substrate, etc. That's the whole reason I flipped him, because his movement was so out of the norm. It was when I flipped him that I saw that he was drawing his legs over his face, his fangs have been spread some on his back. All of the things apply, it is just a matter of when I noticed them happening. :/ I would have left him if I hadn't noticed him bowed and moving in such a bizarre way. Ten-twelve hours IS a long time for him to be on his back, but if he was moving normally I WOULD have left him. None of my other tarantulas are acting out of the norm, just like with him. This all just popped up out of nowhere. None of his exuvia seems loose, or like it can be popped or taken off in any way.

He doesn't look like he has traditional DKS, but I assumed maybe it would present itself differently in some specimen. I am just so unsure. And terrified. I would be down to help him in literally any way that I can. I have glycerine from the last "surgery" I did, as well as an exacto knife. I just don't know how to proceed, or what the likely cause of his behavior is. I feel utterly useless and it is infuriating.

 

[Ellenantula]

None of his exuvia seems loose, or like it can be popped or taken off in any way.
He doesn't look like he has traditional DKS, but I assumed maybe it would present itself differently in some specimen. I am just so unsure. And terrified. I would be down to help him in literally any way that I can. I have glycerine from the last "surgery" I did, as well as an exacto knife. I just don't know how to proceed, or what the likely cause of his behavior is. I feel utterly useless and it is infuriating.

There really isn't anything you can do -- please don't go cutting on your T. If he was mostly pulled out and you could assist -- then I would figure you have nothing to lose in trying. But without even his carapace popped....
I am so sorry this happened to your T. Personally, I would wait it out or freeze him. But I don't see surgery as an option in this case.
Whole things stinks, I know. And I empathize how helpless things feel right now.

 

[cold blood]

To me it looks similiar, but differrent than dks symptons...which tend to result in much faster and more frantic movement.

What caused this will almost certainly never be known. you couldnt possibly lay blame on the previous owner.

Unless maybe you have kids that could have sprayed something i couldnt even to begin to speculate on its cause.

I will say that because of a neighbor whos absolutely in love with pesticides, ive dealt with dks symptoms many times....its usually a 50/50 proposition when it comes to survival. i would never freeze one and just give up.

If they get through a molt, they generally survive...unfortunately theres nothing than can be done aside from leaving it alone and waiting.....only time will tell.

 

[Izzyloo3]

There really isn't anything you can do -- please don't go cutting on your T. If he was mostly pulled out and you could assist -- then I would figure you have nothing to lose in trying. But without even his carapace popped....
I am so sorry this happened to your T. Personally, I would wait it out or freeze him. But I don't see surgery as an option in this case.
Whole things stinks, I know. And I empathize how helpless things feel right now.

Yeah, I wasn't going to go knife crazy or anything unless there was some kind of indication that something was going to come loose. Or if something HAD popped. He moves so much when stimulated right now, anyhow, that I would NOT want to come at him with anything sharp right now. I just want to wait it out and see if anything progresses. :/ he was lying flat this morning on his sternum.