Pregnant women and tarantulas?

GartenSpinnen

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Has there been any indication that a tarantula can harm a pregnant woman? I have recently gotten rid of all my tarantulas and centipedes and scorpions because of my girlfriend being pregnant except for keeping a flatrock scorpion, and a chaco golden knee... but i still have a couple OBTs.... im trying to get rid of but nobody seems to want them (ok... they ARE my babies...)... any information would be appreciated dealing with this matter, ty
nate
 

Talkenlate04

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I dont really think so. She might be hyper sensitive to the hairs kicked off while pregnant, but other then sticking her hand in there and getting bit, I dont think there are any other things to worry about.
 
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Snipes

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Naw i doubt it. On the other hand, if she did get bit it could infuse with the child and create a force the world has not know....SPIDERMAN!!
 

ShadowBlade

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Naw i doubt it. On the other hand, if she did get bit it could infuse with the child and create a force the world has not know....SPIDERMAN!!
That would be awesome.

Haha, first time I saw this thread, I thought Snipes posted it... I was like, uh, wait a sec...

-Sean
 

galeogirl

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Many of the old-timers around here will remember that I was quite pregnant when I joined this forum. I kept ts all through my pregnancy with no ill effects.
 

Midnightrdr456

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I dont know what your talking about. Everyone I know told me that T's are bloodthirsty monsters that will do everything they can to devour and infant.

I highly doubt there would be any ill effects except maybe have someone else do the cage cleanings and stuff. I wouldnt want to get bit if i were pregnant just in case (though since im a guy i dont need to worry about that i guess)
 

Moltar

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It seems to me that a pregnant woman getting bitten by a species with powerful venom (pokies, OBT, etc.) might be at risk for a miscarriage. The risk may be higher in the first trimester. As long as she doesn't have any contact with the spiders that would present that risk though she should be fine. Now i'm no doctor and i'm not as experienced w/ T's as many on here but that just seems logical to me.

Just do the tank maintenance yourself, don't let your OBT's escape and you oughtta' be fine.
 

Dr Pies

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It seems to me that a pregnant woman getting bitten by a species with powerful venom (pokies, OBT, etc.) might be at risk for a miscarriage. The risk may be higher in the first trimester. As long as she doesn't have any contact with the spiders that would present that risk though she should be fine. Now i'm no doctor and i'm not as experienced w/ T's as many on here but that just seems logical to me.

Just do the tank maintenance yourself, don't let your OBT's escape and you oughtta' be fine.
Why would that be a logical assumption? Venom effect, or merely shock of being bitten? I doubt there would be any problem at all, bitten or otherwise.
 

speedreader

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From what I know of tarantula venom, it doesn't have any lasting effects...

Worst case scenario would be baby adapting to different pain threshold or some such; but then again this sort of adaption would reverse itself overtime as neurons are not static constructs.
 

Cheshire

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Don't let her get bitten and PM Thoth or Dr.Ace about neurotoxic compounds in tarantula venom. They'll be able to send you in the right direction to find the info you'll need.

I would say a bite poses no risk to the baby, I'd think the painkillers would pose more of a threat.
 

OldHag

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I dont know what your talking about. Everyone I know told me that T's are bloodthirsty monsters that will do everything they can to devour and infant.

Well, that explains where 3 of my kids went ;)

I was "haired" by lots of Ts while pregnant. Didnt effect me any more or less than when Im not pregnant. Like everyones saying, just stay away from them if your worried. No need to get rid of them.:rolleyes:
 

Venom

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I would avoid species that cause muscle cramps, severe bruising, or other neurotoxic symptoms. So yes, I'd recommend you keep her away from the OBT and anything else with notable neurotoxic effects. If it can cause significant effects in an adult human, there is a chance of the venom crossing through the umbilical into the child's circulatory system just as nutrients are, and causing those "significant effects" in the child. And we all know that every venom is more dangerous to small children than to adults.

Even if the risks are slight, ( which is debatable ), the bottom line is we are talking about your child here, and he/ she is worth your protection even from "possible" threats.
 

DrAce

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My brief thoughts on this (I've been trying to have kids, but I think I'm barren ;) ) is that the being bitten would be very bad. Venom itself would probably have a significant effect on developing connections, particularly in the early stages of neurological development, but the cramping would be the worst potential problem. The induction of cramps in the uterus is spectacularly easy in pregnancy, and I would imagine (this is all guesswork, I have no research to back this up) that it would trigger some contractile effects.

If I get a chance, I'll scan some papers and see if I can find some articles...
 

DrAce

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Black Widow and Pregnancy

Ok, I've found three case-reports of envenomation by 'black widow' (apparently L. mactans, but I'm not sure how reliable their ID was).

The most recent, and most interesting, I think, was this one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=11024247&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum
in which the patient was near-term. Apparently, my predictions above weren't too far off, and there was some degree of contractions and dilation as a result of the general stress of the event, but antivenom was able to reduce this effect to a minimum. She did receive a number of other medications, and it's not clear how each one affected her symptoms.
She evidently recovered, was sent home, and had a normal healthy delivery about a week later.

Another paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=8191768&query_hl=8&itool=pubmed_docsum
raises the interesting point, which I'd not considered, of the size of the venom. Alpha-Latrotoxin the black widow spider venom, is a large molecule, as are many spider venoms. That makes them unlikely to diffuse accross the placenta easily, meaning that Mum would need a pretty hefty dose before bubs gets a measureable effect.

In short, while I'd avoid getting bitten, and getting a bite would be 'serious', I don't think you have to get rid of your collection.
 

Venom

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Venom itself would probably have a significant effect on developing connections, particularly in the early stages of neurological development, but the cramping would be the worst potential problem.
Yeah, that's what I thinking too.


Alpha-Latrotoxin the black widow spider venom, is a large molecule, as are many spider venoms. That makes them unlikely to diffuse accross the placenta easily, meaning that Mum would need a pretty hefty dose before bubs gets a measureable effect.
Unfortunately, I don't think that would work in the case of tarantula venoms. Alpha-latrotoxin is pretty unique in its size, which is just enormous. However, tarantula venoms aren't even proteins, but peptides, which are much smaller molecules.

Another thought ( though I don't know how significant this would be ) is that there is no specific antivenom for tarantula bites as there would be in latro-bite cases. The docs would have to use muscle relaxants to calm the cramping, which might ( I'm speculating here ) have adverse effects on the infant, since a dosage large enough to stop mom from contracting might be too large to be safe for the infant.

In any case, it would/ could be bad. The NW T's wouldn't be an issue, but I'd want to keep very much out of the way anything of a more potent Old World persuasion.
 

DrAce

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I was unaware that the tarantula venoms were smaller - that would also be a reason why no particularly useful antivenums (antivena?) have been developed: smaller molecules usually give much smaller immune responses, and instead are removed by proteases and peptidases, occasionally P450, if a funny amino acid has been introduced (I know that spiders contain one of the few examples of an invertase which is used to convert L amino acids to the D enantiomer. Platypus are another... it's an effective method for ensuring that the venom will remain for longer in the victim - D amino acids are not digested easily by amino-peptidases). Still, the placenta is a very efficient filter - there are several small peptide-based hormones which are not permitted to cross into the foetus, these may be among them.

Understandably there isn't much data on the effects to unborn babies. My guess is that it's probably bad.

If you want some specific advice, here it is: Don't get bitten.
 

Thoth

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Many of the peptides (on average of 30 amino acids) in t venom are small enough to cross over the plancental barrier. Being ion channel inhibitors, I would especially worry about the fetal heart especially during the first two trimesters because the fetus does not gain much mass. Also not being a development biologist I'm not sure of any lasting effects it would have on fetus (though I do know enough that fetal developement is rather complex and carefully balanced cascade of signal hormones and peptides) Though by looking at various papers it seems that certain neuronal development is affected by the effect of the calcium channels presents (and functioning) so it may have neurological consequence.

So Dr.Ace states it best don't get bitten and your girlfirend and unborn child will be fine. And unless she already was extremely sensitive to the hairs,
I would worry any more about them but best if she avoided them, better safe than sorry.

The venom are too small to elicit any meaningful immune response so no real means of generating anti-sera (and no significant allergic response) to them unless conjugating it to BSA and/or use of other adjuvants.
 

speedreader

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well, peptides don't account for majority of spider venom components. Polyacylamines can get through anything including BBB vai the corresponsing transporters.
 
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