Pokies, speed and venom potency

[josh_r]

Right; in saying 'chase people out of trees' I meant if you're up there picking palm fruit and run into a Stromatopelma, you'll likely depart in a hasty manner on your own, without the spider following you. To me that means being 'chased' out of a tree, as opposed to taking your time up there and sight-seeing. 'Chase' can mean different things. Maybe there's a better word for what I wanted to say. In none of my posts did I say they followed people, just that the bites pack a wallop, and after being bitten, you're not going to hang around and wait for another one. A burglar can be 'chased' out of a house by an angry homeowner, but it doesn't mean the homeowner ran down the street after him.

'chase' only has one meaning in this context.... to go after.... If you CHASE a burgler out of your house, you ran after him out of your house. If you SCARED a burgler out of your house, you didn't go after him... You just instilled fear enough into him to change his mind about sticking around..... See the difference?

CHASE can only mean one thing.... To give chase or to go after.


In this context, I don't know how you came up with the idea that chase has more than one meaning....

I´ll help... This is from the dictionary.

chase 1 (chs)
v. chased, chas·ing, chas·es
v.tr.
1. To follow rapidly in order to catch or overtake; pursue: chased the thief.
2. To follow (game) in order to capture or kill; hunt: chase foxes.

v.intr.
1. To go or follow in pursuit.

1. The act of chasing; pursuit.
2. The hunting of game: the thrill of the chase.

chase1
vb
1. to follow or run after (a person, animal, or goal) persistently or quickly
2. (tr; often foll by out, away, or off) to force to run (away); drive (out)
3. (tr) Informal to court (a member of the opposite sex) in an unsubtle manner
4. (tr; often foll by up) Informal to pursue persistently and energetically in order to obtain results, information, etc. chase up the builders and get a delivery date
5. (intr) Informal to hurry; rush
n
1. the act of chasing; pursuit
2. any quarry that is pursued

All if them suggest persistently going after something... So tell me.... does stromatopelma still chase people out of trees?

 

[Poec54]

Like I said, there may be a better word for it.

 

[BobGrill]

'chase' only has one meaning in this context.... to go after.... If you CHASE a burgler out of your house, you ran after him out of your house. If you SCARED a burgler out of your house, you didn't go after him... You just instilled fear enough into him to change his mind about sticking around..... See the difference?

CHASE can only mean one thing.... To give chase or to go after.


In this context, I don't know how you came up with the idea that chase has more than one meaning....

I´ll help... This is from the dictionary.

chase 1 (chs)
v. chased, chas·ing, chas·es
v.tr.
1. To follow rapidly in order to catch or overtake; pursue: chased the thief.
2. To follow (game) in order to capture or kill; hunt: chase foxes.

v.intr.
1. To go or follow in pursuit.

1. The act of chasing; pursuit.
2. The hunting of game: the thrill of the chase.

chase1
vb
1. to follow or run after (a person, animal, or goal) persistently or quickly
2. (tr; often foll by out, away, or off) to force to run (away); drive (out)
3. (tr) Informal to court (a member of the opposite sex) in an unsubtle manner
4. (tr; often foll by up) Informal to pursue persistently and energetically in order to obtain results, information, etc. chase up the builders and get a delivery date
5. (intr) Informal to hurry; rush
n
1. the act of chasing; pursuit
2. any quarry that is pursued

All if them suggest persistently going after something... So tell me.... does stromatopelma still chase people out of trees?

... Is all of that really necessary? So he used a word that maybe wasn't the best word to use to describe what he was talking about. So what? You're on a forum full of people who keep Ts, and try at every opportunity to educate people about them and to eliminate their image as viscous monsters. We know that Ts only bite in defense, hence why we encourage people to use the word "defensive" rather than "aggressive". I'm just not sure why you can't just let the issue go.

 

[josh_r]

... Is all of that really necessary? So he used a word that maybe wasn't the best word to use to describe what he was talking about. So what? You're on a forum full of people who keep Ts, and try at every opportunity to educate people about them and to eliminate their image as viscous monsters. We know that Ts only bite in defense, hence why we encourage people to use the word "defensive" rather than "aggressive". I'm just not sure why you can't just let the issue go.

It is ABSOLUTELY necessary because he is stating on a public forum that any person can read that stromatopelma chase people. Many people who have no knowledge of spiders come to this board in search of information on spiders. It is our responsibility as a community to provide true and proper information to the public. Saying that a species of tarantula chases people is a false statement and someone who doesn't know better will read that and get the impression that all taranttulas chase people and then you have that scenario once again, "darned snake chased me half way across texas!" scenario.... only this time, you got them believing it with tarantulas. These are the kinds of things that breed this misinformation and we have a responsibility to debunk and not contribute to the spread of this misinformation.

 

[BobGrill]

Well I think your method of shoving that information down someone's throat isn't the best way to educate people with no knowledge.

 

[Poec54]

It is ABSOLUTELY necessary because he is stating on a public forum that any person can read that stromatopelma chase people. Many people who have no knowledge of spiders come to this board in search of information on spiders. It is our responsibility as a community to provide true and proper information to the public. Saying that a species of tarantula chases people is a false statement and someone who doesn't know better will read that and get the impression that all taranttulas chase people and then you have that scenario once again, "darned snake chased me half way across texas!" scenario.... only this time, you got them believing it with tarantulas. These are the kinds of things that breed this misinformation and we have a responsibility to debunk and not contribute to the spread of this misinformation.

Hey, you're a smart guy and I respect that. I clarified what I meant, several times, and it's time to let it go. It's getting old at this point.

 

[josh_r]

Well I think your method of shoving that information down someone's throat isn't the best way to educate people with no knowledge.

when I initially made the comment, the poster basically told me I have no knowledge. Maybe he shouldn't have tried to insult me. And maybe when he is wrong, he should just accept it and stop trying to defend his opinion by changing the meaning of the word chase. No shoving down anyones throat here. Just trying to make it known that tarantulas do not chase people no matter the species. If i have to go to extremes to prove this, so be it. It sets a bad image for tarantulas to say things like that. That is not what we are about.

---------- Post added 06-06-2013 at 08:09 AM ----------

Hey, you're a smart guy and I respect that. I clarified what I meant, several times, and it's time to let it go. It's getting old at this point.

All you had to do was admit that they don't chase people. Simple

 

[BobGrill]

Look, we're all for educating people about tarantulas, but there is no need to do so in that manner. We can't expect people to want to learn if we're going to be so aggressive towards them when they're mistaken about something.

 

[Poec54]

when I initially made the comment, the poster basically told me I have no knowledge. Maybe he shouldn't have tried to insult me. And maybe when he is wrong, he should just accept it and stop trying to defend his opinion by changing the meaning of the word chase.

There was never any insult, don't know where that came from. In 5 posts I said they don't chase people out of trees, that people would FALL out of trees trying to get away from them after being bitten. You've made you point, repeatedly, how about calling off today's English lesson and moving forward?

 

[Storm76]

Just trying to make it known that tarantulas do not chase people no matter the species. If i have to go to extremes to prove this, so be it. It sets a bad image for tarantulas to say things like that. That is not what we are about.

I still have to go up against that statement. It might very well be as you say that -you- didn't make any sort of that experience and that's all fine and good, but there are reports from others people that experienced it - do you call all of them liars? I don't think so. So, please show a little understanding here and what I'm trying to say...

It is ABSOLUTELY necessary because he is stating on a public forum that any person can read that stromatopelma chase people. Many people who have no knowledge of spiders come to this board in search of information on spiders. It is our responsibility as a community to provide true and proper information to the public. Saying that a species of tarantula chases people is a false statement and someone who doesn't know better will read that and get the impression that all taranttulas chase people and then you have that scenario once again, "darned snake chased me half way across texas!" scenario.... only this time, you got them believing it with tarantulas. These are the kinds of things that breed this misinformation and we have a responsibility to debunk and not contribute to the spread of this misinformation.

Unless I read that totally wrong, you're basically coming over quite aggresively here telling that Poec as well I am posting "uneducated" myth information that isn't true. Maybe you -do- call people who have experienced this liars after all then...

Let me tell you some stuff in opposite of what you wrote there:

a) I'm -not- saying that all tarantulas will "run after you" / "chase" you! Never did - for the most part, every single tarantula will rather try to run away and find a safe hiding spot than pick a fight

b) There are situations in which people have reported that their S. calceatum (this species - not "all"!) have gone after them. For example, in German forums you occasionally find threads like that, too.

Example a:
A guy tried to rehouse a sling S. calceatum into a bigger enclosure. It ended up with the spider running out and over the table -away- from him at first. He used a long straw to direct it back towards the enclose and instead of running further away from him, the spider -jumped- at him (around 20cm - 30cm)! His father had to get it off him and he was lucky not having been bitten during that incident.

Example b:
An AF enclosure was opened to get the male for breeding in. Instead of going into hiding (as every T will try to hide when disturbed and has a route of escape, right?) the T -jumped- at it's keeper and bit him twice before jumping down and running for cover. The spider wasn't poked, only the enclosure was opened (glass enclosure with slide-down door).

Both of these show -exactly- what I tried to say before: They are considered "semi-aggressive" and even if the wording "chase" might be wrong, if sufficiently annoyed (individuals vary like with any other species!) they don't just back up, run away or go hide - they are extremely territorial and will try to get you out of their territory obviously.

As a sidenote, on the chance of coming over somewhat agressive (which I'm not, btw, just trying to make a point) - it's great you made one experience with these, but there are people out there that made different experiences and you're basically calling them liars because only what you say is correct. Please take other peoples reports into consideration.

I'm not trying to make the "hobby look bad" or whatever. That's a total exaggeration, I'm simply saying newbies shouldn't -ever- get an S. calceatum for a start. These are T's that (in my opinion) should only be kept by people long-time in the hobby and with vast experience already. I don't care if others say "You'll be fine" - even though their bite won't kill you, it will put you into a lot of pain.

I will however agree, that the majority will simply go hide unless you annoy them. Do -not- mess with this T or annoy them to show "you're the man" - ever.

So, please, again - don't say what you're saying is correct and all others are wrong.

Thanks.

 

[Shrike]

People that are interested in the origin of this epic saga can go back and read the entire thread, but since terminology and intent have been clarified, the debate's really a moot point. Dare I say that we're all more or less on the same page when it comes to good old S. calceatum's super powers and mood swings? I'll drink to that.

 

[josh_r]

I still have to go up against that statement. It might very well be as you say that -you- didn't make any sort of that experience and that's all fine and good, but there are reports from others people that experienced it - do you call all of them liars? I don't think so. So, please show a little understanding here and what I'm trying to say...


Unless I read that totally wrong, you're basically coming over quite aggresively here telling that Poec as well I am posting "uneducated" myth information that isn't true. Maybe you -do- call people who have experienced this liars after all then...

Let me tell you some stuff in opposite of what you wrote there:

a) I'm -not- saying that all tarantulas will "run after you" / "chase" you! Never did - for the most part, every single tarantula will rather try to run away and find a safe hiding spot than pick a fight

b) There are situations in which people have reported that their S. calceatum (this species - not "all"!) have gone after them. For example, in German forums you occasionally find threads like that, too.

Example a:
A guy tried to rehouse a sling S. calceatum into a bigger enclosure. It ended up with the spider running out and over the table -away- from him at first. He used a long straw to direct it back towards the enclose and instead of running further away from him, the spider -jumped- at him (around 20cm - 30cm)! His father had to get it off him and he was lucky not having been bitten during that incident.

Example b:
An AF enclosure was opened to get the male for breeding in. Instead of going into hiding (as every T will try to hide when disturbed and has a route of escape, right?) the T -jumped- at it's keeper and bit him twice before jumping down and running for cover. The spider wasn't poked, only the enclosure was opened (glass enclosure with slide-down door).

Both of these show -exactly- what I tried to say before: They are considered "semi-aggressive" and even if the wording "chase" might be wrong, if sufficiently annoyed (individuals vary like with any other species!) they don't just back up, run away or go hide - they are extremely territorial and will try to get you out of their territory obviously.

As a sidenote, on the chance of coming over somewhat agressive (which I'm not, btw, just trying to make a point) - it's great you made one experience with these, but there are people out there that made different experiences and you're basically calling them liars because only what you say is correct. Please take other peoples reports into consideration.

I'm not trying to make the "hobby look bad" or whatever. That's a total exaggeration, I'm simply saying newbies shouldn't -ever- get an S. calceatum for a start. These are T's that (in my opinion) should only be kept by people long-time in the hobby and with vast experience already. I don't care if others say "You'll be fine" - even though their bite won't kill you, it will put you into a lot of pain.

I will however agree, that the majority will simply go hide unless you annoy them. Do -not- mess with this T or annoy them to show "you're the man" - ever.

So, please, again - don't say what you're saying is correct and all others are wrong.

Thanks.

calceatum isn't a semi agressive species. It is extremely aggressive. And I never said that anyones experience was wrong or incorrect, but even an experienced hoobyist can have an experience and percieve it as something it is really not. I ONLY said that the statement that they chase you is wrong. this species, when it feels threatened, will run in any random direction. If you happen to be in the way, you will get bit... no doubt. But some of the statements made prior suggest they will run after you, bite, then run away.... No way... What you percieve as the spider running after to bite you is just you having unfortunate luck.

And please don't take my comments as being aggressive. I am not an aggressive person. I am not a jerk. I am a really nice guy... Posts cannot show emotion so it is far too easy to assume that I am aggressive. When it comes to anything that may spread the fear of spiders to the general public, I feel it needs to be corrected. People that do not like spiders read these posts and when they read that a spider chased someone... suddenly all spiders chase people.... You guys should know how it goes by now.

---------- Post added 06-06-2013 at 03:26 PM ----------

People that are interested in the origin of this epic saga can go back and read the entire thread, but since terminology and intent have been clarified, the debate's really a moot point. Dare I say that we're all more or less on the same page when it comes to good old S. calceatum's super powers and mood swings? I'll drink to that.

You have a point. It is moot. I guess I should have not cared to begin with hahaha!

 

[Silberrücken]

Respect the Poecis as you would a Stromatopelma.

R -e-s-p-e-c-t.

 

[Poec54]

calceatum isn't a semi agressive species. It is extremely aggressive.

And here's the use of a word that has generated many arguments with tarantula owners: 'aggressive.' Many people are vehement that ALL tarantulas are defensive, not aggressive. They bite when you get too close to them or their territory; they don't wander around looking for hapless people to attack. 'Aggressive' conjures up all kinds of terrifying images in the general public's mind, and 'extremely aggressive' makes it sound like they're a public health threat. You just tossed around a term that could put you on the receiving end of some angry T people, and probably get you some lectures on the proper use of the word & maybe some dictionary quotes.

You're as human as the rest of us, and just as guilty in misusing words that portray tarantulas in a negative light. Practice what you preach. Next time, cut other people some slack.

 

[josh_r]

And here's the use of a word that has generated many arguments with tarantula owners: 'aggressive.' Many people are vehement that ALL tarantulas are defensive, not aggressive. They bite when you get too close to them or their territory; they don't wander around looking for hapless people to attack. 'Aggressive' conjures up all kinds of terrifying images in the general public's mind, and 'extremely aggressive' makes it sound like they're a public health threat. You just tossed around a term that could put you on the receiving end of some angry T people, and probably get you some lectures on the proper use of the word & maybe some dictionary quotes.

You're as human as the rest of us, and just as guilty in misusing words that portray tarantulas in a negative light. Practice what you preach. Next time, cut other people some slack.

I was going to stop posting on this thread.... but I have to reply to this... You have inspired me

ag•gres•sive (əˈgrɛs ɪv)

adj.
1. characterized by or tending toward aggression.
2. vigorously energetic, esp. in the use of initiative and forcefulness; boldly assertive: an aggressive salesperson.
3. (of an investment) emphasizing maximum growth over assured income.
4. using daring or forceful methods:

ag·gres·sive (-grsv)
adj.
1. Characterized by aggression: aggressive behavior.
2. Inclined to behave in an actively hostile fashion: an aggressive regime.
3. Assertive, bold, and energetic: an aggressive sales campaign.
4. Of or relating to an investment or approach to investing that seeks above-average returns by taking above-average risks.
5. Fast growing; tending to spread quickly and invade: an aggressive tumor.
6. Characterized by or inclined toward vigorous or intensive medical treatment: an aggressive approach to treating the infection.
7. Intense or harsh, as in color.

being defensive can be done in a passive manner or it can be done in an aggressive manner. All aggressive means is you do something in an extreme, forceful, bold, assertive, energetic way. Aggressive is not a term solely used for something that actively pursues you forcefully.... but it can be used to describe other things as well.

example- man is being robbed...

Passive defense: victim uses threats or screams or gets on the ground and begs, tries to hide, etc

aggressive defense: victim fights back, punching, kicking, biting, mace, weapons, brute force, etc

So here, we have species that when threatened would rather go hide in a corner and kick a few urticating hairs and unwillingly, let you poke at them.... passive defense
then we have the species that will not tolerate your invasiveness and will quickly turn around and deliver an ass whooping.... aggressive defense

so the term aggressive can be used to describe a species defensive attitude... but never should a spider be said to chase anyone.

 

[Poec54]

we have species that when threatened would rather go hide in a corner and kick a few urticating hairs and unwillingly, let you poke at them.... passive defense
then we have the species that will not tolerate your invasiveness and will quickly turn around and deliver an ass whooping.... aggressive defense

so the term aggressive can be used to describe a species defensive attitude.

It's never going to end...

 

[LV-426]

In my experience there are other Ts faster than a Pokie, such as S. calceatum.

 

[Poec54]

In my experience there are other Ts faster than a Pokie, such as S. calceatum.

+1. Poecs are fast, but not the fastest. They're quicker when they're young and don't weigh much; some of my Poec slings have flung themselves into the air like bungee jumpers and ran like the wind when they hit the ground. Adults are agile but too big and heavy to dulplicate that; they have to have more regard for gravity.

There are a number of very fast arboreals (NW and OW) and Asian terrestrials. When you combine speed with short tempers, wherever they're from, it's something for experienced keepers.

 

[BobGrill]

GBB's are pretty damn fast. Mine likes flies across the tank at its prey lol.

 

[josh_r]

It's never going to end...

It would have ended, but you didn´t let go. You just can´t handle getting your feathers ruffled