Pokie venom vs. other species

petitegreeneyes

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Just curious as to what others think on this topic. It seems like everyone thinks that pokie venom is the hottest. What about the Chilobrachys, Haplopelmas, Chilocosmia species and or the Selencosmia species. I personally feel that any of these other species could make you sicker than a dog as well as the pokes. I know I wouldn't want to get bit by my Chinese earth tiger and or my Asian giant fawn due to their venom.
 

Code Monkey

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I don't think this, I think that old worlder's in general have hotter venom than new worlders. Pokies are very popular in the T community, and are arboreal which increases the "mad dash out of the cage followed by boneheaded owner maneuver" risk, so they get more of the nasty bite reports. They may or may not be hotter than a Hysterocrates, but without more scientific study than the bite reports, who can say? As some of the even more skeptical will point out, it's even impossible to claim definitively that any T has hotter venom than any other T since the medical data just isn't there.
 

LaRiz

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There's just so many factors involved in tarantula venoms and it's effects on mammals, or specifically, us humans. We, the laymen of the hobby, can only generalize and even speculate on what could happen. This is a long winded debate, and will continue on and on. Remember Steve Kirby? He would be the guy to contact regarding Poec. venoms. There was an article in a long past ATS forum, were he wrote specifics on his venom research. I haven't heard of his findings, nor do I hear that he's still in the hobby. At one time, he used to have one of the largest collections of Poecs in the US. If anyone knows what he's up to nowadays, let us know.
I fully agree with CM. Old world species have more virilent venoms than the new world species. This has something to do with defenses. New world species rely on uricating hair for defense. Old worlds will use a nasty attitude, and a bite. Both will flee first though, of course.
Becky,
I would that yes, there are other Asians that may have potent venoms. Haplopelma schmidti comes to mind first. Ornithoctonus, Cyriopagopus, Haplopelma, Chilobrachys, and Selenocosmis are some genus' I would recommend against sustaining a bite.
Click to visit Guangxi Spider Farms
john
 

ArachnoJoost

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Originally posted by LaRiz
I haven't heard of his findings, nor do I hear that he's still in the hobby. At one time, he used to have one of the largest collections of Poecs in the US. If anyone knows what he's up to nowadays, let us know.Click to visit Guangxi Spider Farms
john
Maybe he died from multiple pokie bites...:eek:
Interesting site, first time i've seen a ld50 report on spider venom (and of cattle and a baby death). That ld50 shows that it is quite a potent venom indeed.
 

Lasiodora

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No one knows exactly how medically significant a bite is right now. People generally speculate on the effects. Not enough scientific research has been done to verify anything. I think that anyone who has been bitten by one should seek medical attention. There is always a chance of a reaction to the venom, even if its not very toxic. This goes for any old world species.

I think that if you don't feel comfortable with keeping old worlds then don't. Poecilotheria faciata was my first spider. They are not generally aggressive. I never had her bolt out on me or display. This is because I gave her a hide spot and she was comfortable in her enclosure. Whenever I got near her cage she would run into her hide. If I had to take her out, I would pull the whole hidespot out (spider and all) with forceps. If you keep them properly then you should never have a problem with them. You don't have to be an expert to keep one (some experience with old world Ts helps). You just need to read up on them, keep them in setups that minimize the chances of escape or getting bit, and be cautious. Old worlds aren't for everyone, and that's okay. There are enough species out there to match everyone's needs. Colorful, docile, large,aggressive: whatever toots your horn:D .
Mike
 

dilleo

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Hey LaRiz, that site has an interesting pic of a Plesiophrictus guangxiensis. Looks a lot like my unconfirmed chilobrachy's burmensis and like Rick West's pic of Chilobrachys guangxiensis.

I wouldn't assume that all old world tarantula's have harmful venom. My "Chilobrachy's burmensis" is really aggressive although hasn't bitten me yet in all the times I've picked her up. Although she's not on my hand for more than 2 seconds before she's on my back she still hasn't bitten. I'd watch out for the more colorful old world's with defense poses, like the poke's and Haplopelma's. I would not want to get bit by one of those.

Code, I think some researchers, if there are any, that look at venom potency in spiders in general is greater or less due to coloration or threat posture could shed some light on the issue. You need to think about why a t would have such potent venom like pokies or why it's behavior pattern and colors weren't warning you of something.

-Jeremy
 

JacenBeers

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I read on a caresheet somewhere that Heteroscodra Maculata has the worst venom. Any truth to that?
 

Haploman

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I agree

But we are forgetting a species (dont count this one out)
Stromatopelma Calceatum
 

dilleo

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I would like to compare Stromatopelma calceatum's venom to that of Heteroscodra maculata. Their very similar in their color pattern and I wonder if similar evolutionary paths has led to a similar venom, assuming they evolved similar for the same reason. I know they both have hot venom, that's for damn sure. If you don't agree, go ahead and let one bite you and email me the symptoms :D .

-Jeremy
 

Haploman

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my above comment

I forgot to direct it I directed my comment at code monkeys and my brother as for h maculata yes I say its another one, if its from asia or africa its got to be bad
 

Vayu Son

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><

Heteroscodra and Stromatopelma sp. are related via subfamily Stromatopelmiinae.

-V
 

Code Monkey

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Originally posted by dilleo
Code, I think some researchers, if there are any, that look at venom potency in spiders in general is greater or less due to coloration or threat posture could shed some light on the issue. You need to think about why a t would have such potent venom like pokies or why it's behavior pattern and colors weren't warning you of something.
I tell you, I can't win around here ;)
If I take the stand in one thread that all indications are that old worlders, particularly pokes, selenocomsia, chilos, etc. are probably hotter than a B. emilia because of the preponderance of anecdotal evidence, more aggression, etc., I get grilled for ignoring the scientific method.
If I take a more skeptical stance, as in this thread, I get grilled for ignoring the preponderance of evidence and other indicative factors :D
 

conipto

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In regards to LD50 - isn't that test done solely on rodents? I was under the impression, from what i'd read in the T keepers guide that some T venom seems to be engineered towards killing small rodentia specifically. Wouldn't that unbalance the test?

Bill
 

ArachnoJoost

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Originally posted by conipto
In regards to LD50 - isn't that test done solely on rodents? I was under the impression, from what i'd read in the T keepers guide that some T venom seems to be engineered towards killing small rodentia specifically. Wouldn't that unbalance the test?
I think it is indeed mostly done on rodents. I think with rodents being warmblooded gives an indication on how it will be on humans. A T which has venom engineered to rodents will probably have a greater effect on humans, and T's which have a venom that works better on inverts will have a far less effect on humans. So I think a ld50 test gives the best results to the effect on humans (unless you want to do the test on humans ofcourse, any volunteers? ;) ).
 

skinheaddave

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Originally posted by Code Monkey
ignoring the preponderance of evidence and other indicative factors :D
Silly monkey. Rumour are for publishing as facts. The lack of scientific evidence is only for the disclaimer. What you should have said was:

Pokies are the most toxic things on earth! My uncle says so!

C-M

P.S. There's actualy almost no scientific backing to any of this.

Cheers,
Dave
 

petitegreeneyes

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Oh Lasiodora I'm not scared of any of my T's. Was just wondering everyone's outlook on this topic. Actually trying to defend Pokes!
 

Lasiodora

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Originally posted by petitegreeneyes
Oh Lasiodora I'm not scared of any of my T's. Was just wondering everyone's outlook on this topic. Actually trying to defend Pokes!
Sorry if it sounded like I was saying you were. I was speaking in general.
Mike
 
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