poki questions

[xhexdx]

The "arachnological" part of his post is quite correct and is in line with the current consensus.

Zoltan: Can highland and lowland produce offspring together? What exactly are the differences between the two? Significant enough to refer to each separately, right?

What matters is that P. bara was synonymised with P. subfusca in 1996. Until someone comes along and restores P. bara as a distinct species, P. subfusca is the valid name. People are entitled to their opinion, and can claim they are two different species, but unless they have examined the type specimens and can provide us with a diagnosis of the supposed two species, their opinion holds zero scientific value.

P.bara is another namfor the lowland form in my eyes they are the same species people just like to play god of spiders and say they are separate <snip>

Taxonomy in itself is 'playing God', wouldn't you say?

I live in the northern u.s. here the deer can reach well over 6 foot, have several antler points, and long tall legs. Just twelve hours south, the deer are much short, have smaller antlers, and shorter legs. The coloring is even slightly different. These variations are all due to very different terrain. One low and flat. The other high and rocky. The deer have adapted genetically to there terrain. But they are STILL DEER, not subspecies. Small variations just are not enough in my opinion to create a different species.

I mean...dogs, as an example, are all the same species. Yet a Great Dane looks completely different from a Poodle.

So what defines something like...Haplopelma albostriatum from Haplopelma minax? They certainly look close enough to be the same species, and even if they're not, the physical differences are minimal.

Taxonomists, scientists, etc. don't all go by the same standards for defining/describing species. So yeah, this is why I said the 'deer' argument was completely invalid, and also why I commented on why I felt it was a good thing that Mr. Run-On wasn't an arachnologist.

Punctuation and grammar get you a long way...

So maybe highland and lowland are the same species, maybe they're not. Would I attempt to breed one to the other? Nope. Would care for both of them be the same? Generally speaking, yep.

 

[Spiderman24]

It cools the air bro when you put ice into a drink put your hand over it and feel the cold air coming from your drink it does the same thing in the tarantulas enclosure and it is my own little thing please let me have my belief because my thermometer in the Subfusca enclosure reads 5 degrees lower then the rest of them and yet again yes it is proper to punctuate and such but I'm typing on my iPhone and this us arachnoboards not a writing essay this is me with a fast and quick answer the intelligent mind can place punctuation while reading and get +y whole "sentence" but yet again the ice cools the air just like the glaciers in the ocean =) think about it

 

[Spiderman24]

Suidakkra

The carapace markings are one but I guess you could throw that in with color as well but eh!t ive noticed in mine are lowland more bulky built with shorter legs and highlands the opposite but yet again I could be thinking my lowlands are highlands or they could both be either or >.<

Xhexdx...
They are taking educated guess's just as we do as you can tell with the name changes we think one thing then next it changes who knows in five years from now everything we think is right could be wrong everything we know could change for example how do we know that what we think is female is male? Because they lay the sac? When in fact they are a different life form they could just possibly be males laying sacs we just go off of an educated guess because females are what produce off spring but it could be wrong we do not know and possibly never will

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

So if the subfusca needs cooler air, why not just make those temps permanent? Ice melts quickly, especially at the 70 degrees or so you're saying your subfuscas are kept at. I doubt the subfusca feels or remotely even cares that you just put some ice into it's water dish. Yes, it may drop the temps inside the enclosure a few degrees, but for how long? Do you get my idea? Ice=not the brightest idea, unless you're putting it in 24/7. Honestly, you should just check out finding another way of cooling your subfusca. You could try the basement or maybe a seperate thermostat controlled box or room?

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

for example how do we know that what we think is female is male? Because they lay the sac? When in fact they are a different life form they could just possibly be males laying sacs we just go off of an educated guess because females are what produce off spring but it could be wrong we do not know and possibly never will

what?!?!?!

 

[Spiderman24]

It's more an experiment man just to see how it goes and yes it has spiked a few times I keep close observation and when I see it I instantly put more ice back in I am just trying to really find a way to keep them the way we think is the right way but you are completely right it can happen but that's the point I'd an experiment to find out if it does and then correct it in the final step

 

[xhexdx]

I'm still having trouble reading the run-on sentences, so all I'm going to respond to is this part:

Xhexdx...
They are taking educated guess's just as we do as you can tell with the name changes we think one thing then next it changes who knows in five years from now everything we think is right could be wrong everything we know could change for example how do we know that what we think is female is male? Because they lay the sac? When in fact they are a different life form they could just possibly be males laying sacs we just go off of an educated guess because females are what produce off spring but it could be wrong we do not know and possibly never will

So...what is the point of being qualified (i.e. an education) to name and describe species if all they're doing is taking educated guesses?

Ok...EDIT:

for example how do we know that what we think is female is male? Because they lay the sac? When in fact they are a different life form they could just possibly be males laying sacs we just go off of an educated guess because females are what produce off spring but it could be wrong we do not know and possibly never will

This is when I stop taking anything you say seriously.

Sperm...meet egg.

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

The carapace markings are one but I guess you could throw that in with color as well but eh!t ive noticed in mine are lowland more bulky built with shorter legs and highlands the opposite but yet again I could be thinking my lowlands are highlands or they could both be either or >.<

Can we see some pics of your subfuscas?

 

[Spiderman24]

Honestly believe it or not it only starts to drop after about 8 hours

 

[Suidakkra]

So if the subfusca needs cooler air, why not just make those temps permanent? Ice melts quickly, especially at the 70 degrees or so you're saying your subfuscas are kept at. I doubt the subfusca feels or remotely even cares that you just put some ice into it's water dish. Yes, it may drop the temps inside the enclosure a few degrees, but for how long? Do you get my idea? Ice=not the brightest idea, unless you're putting it in 24/7. Honestly, you should just check out finding another way of cooling your subfusca. You could try the basement or maybe a seperate thermostat controlled box or room?

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------





what?!?!?!

I agree, I completely understand the ice cooling the enclosure, but only for a limited time, which would in turn cause a spike in temperature and lots of stress.

I keep my highland in my bedroom, where its about the highest of 72* in the summer. My T room on the other hand is 80-82 year round. And I think it would be a bothersome upkeeping practice to constantly put ice in an enclosure,especially if something happens where one would become unavailable for a certain amount of time.

 

[xhexdx]

Can we see some pics of your subfuscas?

Jason, read this:

So I was bored on Google and started to do a little research on the difference and am now wondering if my highlands are lowlands I can't post pictures on here through my phone and no longer have a laptop so I can email anyone with information on the types of subfuscas pictures of the pair by what I'm understanding is the darker colored with purple highlights are bara aka lowlands please help!!!!!

For the record, my 2 P. subfusca (highland) are kept in my home, where the temperature fluctuates between 73F in the winter to 82F in the summer. No problems.

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

This is when I stop taking anything you say seriously.

Sperm...meet egg.

My thoughts exactly. lol

Jason, read this:

For the record, my 2 P. subfusca (highland) are kept in my home, where the temperature fluctuates between 73F in the winter to 82F in the summer. No problems.

Pretty much why I asked the question.

My subfusca sit somewhere between the ranges of 67-68 at night to like almost 75 during the day. I actually just moved them to my room as the basement was getting a little too cold the past few weeks. They seem to be enjoying the nice warm weather in my room as I type. (temps in my room are between 70-80)

 

[Spiderman24]

You know thank you I never real thought about the stress im causing by being i- and out of her enclosure I was more under the thought of the temp being stressful but yeah you're completely right I probably should stop

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

See yet again that's the close minded thinking how do we know a female spider is carrier of sperm we just think its male because most male organisms are the sperm doner so what's to say about an a sexual being aye? Please let me know

 

[xhexdx]

Yeah...ok.

Heard of something called a 'Y Chromosome'?

 

[Spiderman24]

Emails please and ill send pics board disabled pictures cause of my phone

---------- Post added at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------

And as for my post on lowlands and highlands =) I didn't know what to sell them as because I was selling a pair of mine =)

---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 PM ----------

Yet again we will (possibly) never know if they are truly male and female you are going by what is judged on other beings all based around EDUCATED guessing smart pants aye =)

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------

I'm done arguing on arachnoboards though mates I have a life to attend and I'm arguing on my finances birthday have a great evening my email is ravinvanderdardz@gmail.com let me know if you'd like pictures of my subfuscas =)

 

[Spidershane1]

I know how to settle this complete fail of a thread. Lets all unzip our pants and get out the rulers...

 

[Den]

How did this turn into an argument? I just had a question that I wanted to be answered, which I think it did. LOL. And yes I know what a Y chromosome is, I should know, I have one. :} But that's beside the point.

PEACE!

 

[xhexdx]

Well yeah, I wasn't talking to you. I figured you'd have enough common sense to know.

Glad your question was answered.

 

[Zoltan]

Zoltan: Can highland and lowland produce offspring together? What exactly are the differences between the two? Significant enough to refer to each separately, right?

If they are one species they should be able to. I don't know what are the differences as I don't have any. Never cared much for Poecilotheria with regard to captive keeping. IMO color forms are only as significant as you want to make them.

Taxonomy in itself is 'playing God', wouldn't you say?

It's more like playing a librarian to me.

So what defines something like...Haplopelma albostriatum from Haplopelma minax? They certainly look close enough to be the same species, and even if they're not, the physical differences are minimal.

If you look from far enough many things will look close enough to be the same species. Just because the differences are small physically doesn't mean they are not significant.

Taxonomists, scientists, etc. don't all go by the same standards for defining/describing species.

Because of the diversity of living organisms, you can't find a definition of 'species' that fits every group.

Punctuation and grammar get you a long way...

With this I agree, especially because English is not my first language and it's much easier for me to read a decently formed and punctuated sentence.

 

[xhexdx]

I also hope my post didn't come across as attacking you, Zoltan.

Thanks for addressing it and responding. I understand your line of thinking and it makes sense, for the most part. ()

 

[xhexdx]

Everytime you post its just calling someone a newb...

Can you provide a quote?

Maybe something related to the thread?