poisonous or venomous or both?

[Bill S]

By definition, -toxins- are only produced by living organisms

So you're saying that toxic waste does not contain manufactured chemicals? That's an imaginitive definition. As kripp_keeper says, could you provide some support for your definitions?

That is an interesting quotation from the Cal Academy of Sciences. I've got friends working there, and I'm going to write to them about that statement. While by far the best source you've quoted so far, it's still coming from the popular press, not from a toxicology textbook, medical dictionary, etc. You indicated earlier that your wife is going for her masters in toxicology - she should have an abundance of decent reference materials around the house from which you could quote.

 

[venomous.com]

So you're saying that toxic waste does not contain manufactured chemicals? That's an imaginitive definition. As kripp_keeper says, could you provide some support for your definitions?

You are confusing -toxin- with -toxic-

Toxic: containing or being poisonous material especially when capable of causing death or serious debilitation

Toxin: a poisonous substance that is a specific product of the metabolic activities of a living organism and is usually very unstable, notably toxic when introduced into the tissues, and typically capable of inducing antibody formation

Those are the very definitions of the word - http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/toxin

That is an interesting quotation from the Cal Academy of Sciences. I've got friends working there, and I'm going to write to them about that statement. While by far the best source you've quoted so far, it's still coming from the popular press, not from a toxicology textbook, medical dictionary, etc. You indicated earlier that your wife is going for her masters in toxicology - she should have an abundance of decent reference materials around the house from which you could quote.

My wife is not only going for her masters, she's a manager of a research facility at her school She's a pretty good source all by herself. I'd love to hear back what CAS has to say on the subject.

 

[kripp_keeper]

You are confusing -toxin- with -toxic-

Toxic: containing or being poisonous material especially when capable of causing death or serious debilitation

Toxin: a poisonous substance that is a specific product of the metabolic activities of a living organism and is usually very unstable, notably toxic when introduced into the tissues, and typically capable of inducing antibody formation

Those are the very definitions of the word - http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/toxin



My wife is not only going for her masters, she's a manager of a research facility at her school She's a pretty good source all by herself. I'd love to hear back what CAS has to say on the subject.

I looked up venomous on the website you used to look up toxin
venomous
secreting poison; poisonous.- http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/venomous

 

[Bill S]

Those are the very definitions of the word - http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/toxin

You're a little self-servingly selective in the way you edit your quotations. If you continued to read on the same page you quoted from:

toxin, n poisonous material that is synthesized or derived from an animal, mineral, or plant.
Jonas: Mosby's Dictionary of Complementary and Alternative Medicine. (c) 2005, Elsevier.

My wife is not only going for her masters, she's a manager of a research facility at her school She's a pretty good source all by herself.

Perhaps she should join this discussion.

 

[venomous.com]

You're a little self-servingly selective in the way you edit your quotations. If you continued to read on the same page you quoted from:

toxin, n poisonous material that is synthesized or derived from an animal, mineral, or plant.
Jonas: Mosby's Dictionary of Complementary and Alternative Medicine. (c) 2005, Elsevier.

Isn't this exactly what I've been saying? A poison derived from animals or plants is a toxin. I don't understand where the confusion is. :?

 

[venomous.com]

I looked up venomous on the website you used to look up toxin
venomous
secreting poison; poisonous.- http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/venomous

ven·om (vnm)
n.
1. A poisonous secretion of an animal, such as a snake, spider, or scorpion, usually transmitted by a bite or sting.

Same website

 

[Bill S]

Isn't this exactly what I've been saying? A poison derived from animals or plants is a toxin. I don't understand where the confusion is. :?

You're only reading part of the sentence, apparently. The definition says synthesized or derived from an animal, mineral, or plant. Your earlier post said "specific product of the metabolic activities". You indicated that toxins could only be produced naturally, but the definition I posted clearly states that they can be synthesized from minerals too. You indicated a confusion between toxic and toxin, but the only real difference is that toxin is a noun and toxic is an adjective.

ven·om (vnm)
n.
1. A poisonous secretion of an animal, such as a snake, spider, or scorpion, usually transmitted by a bite or sting.

Same website

(I added the bold and underline for emphasis.)

Well, that's what kripp_keeper and I have been trying to convince you of all along. Does this mean you agree with us now?

I guess this is a good place to summarize the long thread.

Venom is a type of poison. Hence, it is completely correct to refer to anything that is venomous as poisonous.

That's where the thread started, and I think that's where it's finally ended up? I will go along with the idea that a venom is a special type of poison, but that may simply be because I am more interested in venoms than in other poisons.

 

[venomous.com]

Venom is a type of poison. Hence, it is completely correct to refer to anything that is venomous as poisonous.

LOL! Here's what it boils down to. A venom is a specific type of toxin, which in turn is a specific type of poison. It's correct to call venom 'poison' (a very specific type) but inaccurate to call a venomous animal 'poisonous'

 

[Bill S]

LOL! Here's what it boils down to. A venom is a specific type of toxin, which in turn is a specific type of poison. It's correct to call venom 'poison' (a very specific type) but inaccurate to call a venomous animal 'poisonous'

OK. The points we still disagree on are toxin vs poison and whether venomous is also poisonous.

My take: Toxins and poisons are synonymous. One is not a specific subset of the other. All poisons are toxins, hence toxic. All toxins are poisons. (That's why toxicologists study poisons.)

Since venoms are a type of poison, then anything that is venomous is also poisonous.

So..... It's your turn.

 

[kripp_keeper]

LOL! Here's what it boils down to. A venom is a specific type of toxin, which in turn is a specific type of poison. It's correct to call venom 'poison' (a very specific type) but inaccurate to call a venomous animal 'poisonous'

This is reason I specifically looked up the word venomous. The definition of the word venomous on the website you referred is poisonous. So how is it inaccurate to call something venomous poisonous?

I will quote my self.

I looked up venomous on the website you used to look up toxin
venomous
secreting poison; poisonous.- http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/venomous

My issue is not that venom is usually injected through a bite or sting, but the fact that venom is a form of poison, and by the very definition of the word it is poisonous.

 

[cacoseraph]

the differentiation between adjective and noun forms of the words is not making huge sense to me

if the noun counts then the adjective form is just used to describe other nouns possessing of that trait