Pine bark

[Angel Minkov]

I recently came back into the hobby and need to rehouse some of my females. I gathered some cool pine bark which I've heard is toxic, but I'm not sure if this one still has its toxic traits, considering the tree it was on had long been dead, and if so, would it be maybe possible to boil the slabs to remove its toxicity?

 

[Vanessa]

Soft woods contain phenols, which act as a natural insecticide to deter insects. They are not able to be removed. All softwoods - pine and cedar included - should not ever be used for insects or arachnids. They shouldn't be used for ANY animal, even though they are marketed as bedding material. If they don't kill them quickly, the phenols result in serious respiratory issues, along with kidney and liver diseases, long term.
I would not chance it.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Use that I say. Do it for the sake of 'science' one moment, and, if you notice something bad affecting your Theraphosidae, please write a full report so others can be warned about

 

[Nightstalker47]

I recently came back into the hobby and need to rehouse some of my females. I gathered some cool pine bark which I've heard is toxic, but I'm not sure if this one still has its toxic traits, considering the tree it was on had long been dead, and if so, would it be maybe possible to boil the slabs to remove its toxicity?

Not worth the risk man, as previously stated pine and cedar are naturally toxic. Why not just buy some cork bark rounds/slabs?

 

[boina]

Soft woods contain phenols, which act as a natural insecticide to deter insects. They are not able to be removed. All softwoods - pine and cedar included - should not ever be used for insects or arachnids. They shouldn't be used for ANY animal, even though they are marketed as bedding material. If they don't kill them quickly, the phenols result result in serious respiratory issues, along with kidney and liver diseases, long term.
I would not chance it.

Often stated and still wrong. source. The "dangers" of pine and cedar have been cited so often that by now it's completely useless to argue that they are based on misinterpretations and mis-citations of scientific studies and you get yelled at if you do. Fresh pine and cedar are an insect repellent and they do have antibacterial properties. They are not a spider repellant. In fact it would be counter productive for the pine to repell spiders that may eat the bugs that plague it.

Phenol is such a nice catch word. Sounds very chemical and bad, right? Well, Serotonin is a phenol, and so is adrenalin - components of your body. Aspirin is a phenol and so is capsaicin, the stuff that makes peppers hot. Would you eat aspirin and hot peppers? Other phenols are rather dangerous, but those are not the biologically occuring ones...

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that those bad bad phenols actually "result in serious respiratory issues, along with kidney and liver diseases, long term." - At least not when you expect your evidence to hold up to scientific standards.

Pine, especially heat treated pine is completely safe. There are no 'toxins' in it, unless you are an insect.

 

[campj]

Yay, facts! I use pine and cedar with no issues.

 

[N1ghtFire]

I had never heard pine was bad. Up until I rehoused my Ts yesterday I had some pine bark in with my S. calc sling. Didn't have any noticable problems with it but now I am glad I didnt include bark in its new enclosure

 

[campj]

I had never heard pine was bad. Up until I rehoused my Ts yesterday I had some pine bark in with my S. calc sling. Didn't have any noticable problems with it but now I am glad I didnt include bark in its new enclosure

Pine isn't bad. It's one of these stupid myths that float around.

 

[boina]

Oh, and about the question of spiders and pine there's for example this

"Females of P. regius make thick silken nests under the bark of various trees, particularly oak and pine, in which to lay their eggs."

Jumping spiders even prefer pine to other wood. (@N1ghtFire )

 

[Angel Minkov]

This... this is beautiful. A well-thought reply with sources and not just parroting... I salute

I'll be trying it out and post updates.

 

[Vanessa]

A well-thought reply with sources and not just parroting

The answer that I posted was based upon working with veterinarians, over a course of approximately 12 years, to determine the effects of pine and cedar on small animals. Yes, the animals were mammals, which is going to result in differences in how the exposure to acidic compounds manifests, but the results were enough for me to decide that none of my animals would ever be forced to be exposed to softwood acidic compounds. Because that is what phenols are - a naturally, and artificially, occurring acidic compound.
Not only was respiratory disease developed earlier in those exposed, but it was encountered far more frequently and was more severe. In many cases, courses of broad spectrum antibiotics, and even a combination of antibiotics, had little to no effect. Post mortem results also showed a significant increase in liver and kidney degradation over those individuals with no exposure.
While this was not observed in a controlled environment, and the individuals were not genetically manipulated, nor pathogen free, there were enough individuals observed for me to conclude that there is the possibility of detrimental long term effects. Enough for me, anyway.
If you would like to assume that the results are going to be exactly the same for an animal exposed to an acidic compound over a span of 18-24 years, compared to an animal who only lives 18-24 months, then go right ahead. Considering what I have learned personally, combined with the fact that there are completely harmless alternatives readily available, I am not going to assume that pine and cedar are harmless.

 

[Angel Minkov]

I was speaking generally, because that's what this forum has become - parroting. I see the same threads with the same replies over and over and over. Don't get your knickers in a twist. Where you're from, cork bark might be cheap, but where I'm from, a small piece is 10 euro+, and with the budget I have, that's unaffordable.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I was speaking generally, because that's what this forum has become - parroting. I see the same threads with the same replies over and over and over. Don't get your knickers in a twist. Where you're from, cork bark might be cheap, but where I'm from, a small piece is 10 euro+, and with the budget I have, that's unaffordable.

Damn... would love to help because here with 10 Euro you can end with 5 KG of cork bark, but shipping that in Bulgaria would cost of course :-/

 

[14pokies]

I see the same threads with the same replies over and over and over.

I know Right! There's already 5 active threads dating from 2016 to 2005 discussing whether pine products are safe for inverts.. I'm glad you created another one .

 

[miss moxie]

I know Right! There's already 5 active threads dating from 2016 to 2005 discussing whether pine products are safe for inverts.. I'm glad you created another one .

the sarcasm....literally blew my hair back....

 

[Angel Minkov]

I know Right! There's already 5 active threads dating from 2016 to 2005 discussing whether pine products are safe for inverts.. I'm glad you created another one .

I skimmed through them, but saw the same replies. I made this one and got different replies. I'm glad too ^^

 

[boina]

I know Right! There's already 5 active threads dating from 2016 to 2005 discussing whether pine products are safe for inverts.. I'm glad you created another one .

I had a look... not much in those threads except parroting of the "pine and cedar are toxic" nonsense. And in those cases it really was parroting without any further explanations or anything. If you want fresh answers it sometimes helps to make a fresh thread. And we are all told to make new threads if we want more information and not to resurrect old ones if we have additional questions. And I think it was cold blood who said don't believe anything too old because tarantula keeping evolves and we know more now than in 2010, for example...

TL;DR: It may be funny, but was still a bit unfair.