phrynus marginemaculatus babies

sschind

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
343
I just picked up a pair, well, its supposed to be a pair, I know there is at least 1 female because there were 6 babies that came with them but I haven't really looked at them too closely yet to see what the difference are. Anyway my question is on the babies. A few years ago I was given about 10 of them and I tried to keep them alive but gradually (about 4 or 5 months) they all died off. I was keeping them communally and feeding them mostly fruit flies.

I'd really like to succeed with this new batch so I was hoping to get some answers here. I've kept and bred several batches of D. diadema (just paired up some F1s hoping for F2s) and I seem to have them down but these baby P.m are so tiny I'm kind of afraid to even mist thinking they may drown in a water droplet.

My main questions are should I go communal with them (the babies and the adults for that matter) Right now I have separated them and I have no problems going through the extra steps to care for multiple enclosures and I think I can monitor them much more closely but if communal is better I'll go that route.

What do you feed them besides fruit flies. My last batch that's pretty much all I did and like I said hey all died off and in fact I don't know that they ever molted. I can put in baby dwarf white isopods but they generally stay in the substrate. Springtails are an option and I can get a culture but are they too small? I always seem to have an issue with the phorid flies so they will also be added to the mix as well. What about grain mites. I try to keep them down but if I'm not carefull in my hissing cockroach cage and leave too much food in there I can get a pretty big explosion pretty quickly. I'm sure it would be pretty easy to knock a few into the conatiner.

That leads me to the container. Communal is no problem I can probably go with a 32 OZ deli cup with cork bark but they would be far to big for an individual. Right now I have tall 8 oz plastic solo cups and they seem OK I just don't like their configuration. they are tall and top heavy and prone to tipping and the lids I have for them are not perfect. I have to snip the edge so they spread a bit and snap over the lip.

Sorry for so many questions. I've been lost in Banshee's thread for a while and I'm glad to see more species becoming available in the US and maybe in the future I will be getting more but right now I want to make sure I can keep the ones I have alive.

I'll figure out the sexing later. I'm assuming the female should probably molt again before they will produce more babies?
 

WeightedAbyss75

Arachnoangel
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
921
There is little reason to keep them communal if you're worrying about it so much ;) May as well just keep them individually and reintroduce them when adults. Not sure about food, but flightless fruit flies are a great option. Hope it works out for you :D
 

BobBarley

Arachnoprince
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
1,481
Springtails and/or pinhead crickets are your best bet. You can get a starter culture of large species of springtails for a fair price here: http://www.roachcrossing.com/category/for-sale/non-roach/springtails/

Try the "cotton springtails" or the "large white springtails". Grain mites, I'd imagine are too small. Also make sure to keep them more humid than the adults, and I wouldn't mist, pouring water into the sub is better.

This species is very socially tolerant, one of the most communal species in the hobby regularly. It's all up to you if you want to keep them communally. Let me know if you have a few surplus.;) Good luck!
 

sschind

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
343
Springtails and/or pinhead crickets are your best bet. You can get a starter culture of large species of springtails for a fair price here: http://www.roachcrossing.com/category/for-sale/non-roach/springtails/

Try the "cotton springtails" or the "large white springtails". Grain mites, I'd imagine are too small. Also make sure to keep them more humid than the adults, and I wouldn't mist, pouring water into the sub is better.

This species is very socially tolerant, one of the most communal species in the hobby regularly. It's all up to you if you want to keep them communally. Let me know if you have a few surplus.;) Good luck!

Thanks for the tips. I'll check out those springtails but I may have to go back to breeding crickets again as well. The main reason I asked about communal setup was that when I tried it with a dozen D. diadema they all grew faster and larger but I lost 4 over the course of about 6 weeks so I didn't think it was worth it. I had read that the P.m. were more social.
 

BobBarley

Arachnoprince
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
1,481
Thanks for the tips. I'll check out those springtails but I may have to go back to breeding crickets again as well. The main reason I asked about communal setup was that when I tried it with a dozen D. diadema they all grew faster and larger but I lost 4 over the course of about 6 weeks so I didn't think it was worth it. I had read that the P.m. were more social.
Yeah, honestly, I'd keep them separate just in case, but it is all your choice. Keep in mind, P. marginemaculatus is more communal than D. diadema.
 

schmiggle

Arachnoking
Active Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,073
Thanks for the tips. I'll check out those springtails but I may have to go back to breeding crickets again as well. The main reason I asked about communal setup was that when I tried it with a dozen D. diadema they all grew faster and larger but I lost 4 over the course of about 6 weeks so I didn't think it was worth it. I had read that the P.m. were more social.
Wonder if they all grew bigger and faster because they had fairly large siblings to eat...
 

sschind

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
343
Wonder if they all grew bigger and faster because they had fairly large siblings to eat...
Funny man:)

I should clarify. They didn't really grow any faster as in molting more often as they had the same number of molts as the others but they grew larger with each molt than the ones kept individually. I said it was 6 weeks but I looked at my records and it was really more like 3 months and I think all I had molted twice in that time. When I took the ones out of the communal tank all were almost twice as big as the ones kept individually and I was able to make an accurate guess as to the sex at the next molt. Some of the smaller ones were still not accurately sexable after 2 more molts.

My theory is that since they were being kept communally I made it a point to always have food available whenever they wanted it (crickets and mealworms mainly but yeah siblings as well I suppose) so they ate when they were hungry. The ones kept individually got fed every 4 days or so and then only 1 or 2 small crickets at a time. The additional food was not enough to make them molt any more often but they grew bigger with each molt.

With my next batch I may try a little experiment and see if I can reproduce the results in more controlled manner with records and all that. I figure I should be able to keep it up for about 3 weeks before I give up.
 

InvertsandOi

Arachnoknight
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
218
I don't have any experience with this, but according to Orin's book fruit flies are a good option for stimulating the babies to eat, but ambly babies can't molt on a diet of only fruit flies. I doubt this was your problem since you said you've raised D. diadema successfully. Just throwing it out there just in case.
 

sschind

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
343
I don't have any experience with this, but according to Orin's book fruit flies are a good option for stimulating the babies to eat, but ambly babies can't molt on a diet of only fruit flies. I doubt this was your problem since you said you've raised D. diadema successfully. Just throwing it out there just in case.
Thanks Nick, I read that in Orin's book about fruit flies. The diadema are larger of course so its easier to offer other options. I get 1/4" crickets and pick out the smaller ones and they are fine with the. Fruit flies, at least the Drosophila melanogaster, are too small for them. I'm going to make another attempt at breeding crickets. I've never had an issue getting pinheads but they never survive past the first molt or two so I could never get them large enough to use. Now that I have these and a dozen Texas cave scorplings I can use the pinheads.
 

InvertsandOi

Arachnoknight
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
218
Thanks Nick, I read that in Orin's book about fruit flies. The diadema are larger of course so its easier to offer other options. I get 1/4" crickets and pick out the smaller ones and they are fine with the. Fruit flies, at least the Drosophila melanogaster, are too small for them. I'm going to make another attempt at breeding crickets. I've never had an issue getting pinheads but they never survive past the first molt or two so I could never get them large enough to use. Now that I have these and a dozen Texas cave scorplings I can use the pinheads.
Might I suggest trying Schultesia lampyrydiformis (firefly roaches)? The newborn nymphs are as small as a medium to large fruit fly. They're easier and cleaner than crickets. I bought about 15 individuals about 6 months ago and now I have a thriving colony that is more than ready to be used as feeders. They're way more prolific than I was expecting. They grow fast and breed fast. It wouldn't help you right now though :\ but maybe in the future. Only other problem is that they're not quite as active as fruit flies and crickets, but they are way more active than most roaches.
 
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