phonutria sac when to pull and how to know if its furtile?

brownj6709

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
17
Just bought a a/f p. nig off a mate she has a sac but he doesnt know wether its furtile and i cant work it out either is there anyway other than time that will tell? and also as its my first true sac do you pull and incubate like T sacs or do you leave em to hatch (i cant leave the sac with mom coz shes in an exo and i dont want the babys escaping lol)
Cheers
Josh
 

NevularScorpion

Arachnoangel
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
917
are you from U.S. ? my only advice to you is to make sure that the slings are in a secured place when they hatch out of the sac. the sac will usually look darker which mean that the babies molted to second instar already and ready to come out.
 

brownj6709

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
17
after looking at other phoneutria sacs this one looks ither allot smaller or infertile as its rather small compaired to others.
ill try get a couple of picks up later 2day.
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,533
Hopefully its not fertile. I might be wrong, but It doesnt sound you are ready to handle them.
 

delherbe

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
55
Hi,

if its a true nigriventer than I think the sack isn`t fertile. If fertile - 4 weeks.

Let the Spider incubate. Self incubating will not work.
 

brownj6709

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
17
yea cheers for the replys after allot of thought ive decided it was a daft move and phoneutria arent the one for me lol.
 

Violet

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
125
Actually I preffer his reaction and his honesty, rather than ignore the advice.
Surely a large amount of research should have been done prior to getting one, perhaps keeping similar species (e.g. Cupiennius sp.) or getting in touch with more experianced keepers. I guess nothing beats first hand experiance though.
 

Violet

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
125
Surely a large amount of research should have been done prior to getting one, perhaps keeping similar species (e.g. Cupiennius sp.) or getting in touch with more experianced keepers. I guess nothing beats first hand experiance though.
To be honest, I was really jumping to conclusions here, I do not know brownj6709's experiance or knowledge. I apologise.
 

zonbonzovi

Creeping beneath you
Staff member
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
3,346
yea cheers for the replys after allot of thought ive decided it was a daft move and phoneutria arent the one for me lol.
Kudos to you for knowing your limits:clap:

I'd bet you could easily make a swap with a keeper that has previous experience with these & perhaps give it a shot when you're more prepared.

That said...I would love to see some pix.
 

Venom

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
1,709
Just please...don't kill the sac. Like was said...send mommy and sac to someone who will raise them. We need good breeders of these spiders.
 

BCscorp

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,099
Just please...don't kill the sac. Like was said...send mommy and sac to someone who will raise them. We need good breeders of these spiders.
I may be out of my depth here...but...why?
I cant help but think of all the inexperience that is shown on this forum daily about tarantulas...then thinking someone that level of experience thinkin "Oh, Imma get myself a phoneutria" and things go wrong....

Just my opinion on a spider I'd never keep nor recommend anyone keep unless they were an educational institute etc.
 

Venom

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
1,709
I may be out of my depth here...but...why?
I cant help but think of all the inexperience that is shown on this forum daily about tarantulas...then thinking someone that level of experience thinkin "Oh, Imma get myself a phoneutria" and things go wrong....

Just my opinion on a spider I'd never keep nor recommend anyone keep unless they were an educational institute etc.
Oh, I agree that only people who know what they're doing should keep them, let alone breed them. The rub is...they're hard to breed. Those who are capable of keeping them safely need to be establishing a solid population to breed from, or the expert keepers won't have these for very long either. They don't live forever...so you either breed them up into a stable population, or they're out of the hobby again. It took a LOOONG time to get these in the States. We need to increase the population of these in US captivity in order to permanently establish them in the North American hobby, or they will die out, and it will be another loooong time before we get these here again.

The same is true for Macrothele--another long desired, and just now acquired genus in the US hobby. We need to breed 'em to keep 'em.
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,533
Oh, I agree that only people who know what they're doing should keep them, let alone breed them. The rub is...they're hard to breed. Those who are capable of keeping them safely need to be establishing a solid population to breed from, or the expert keepers won't have these for very long either. They don't live forever...so you either breed them up into a stable population, or they're out of the hobby again. It took a LOOONG time to get these in the States. We need to increase the population of these in US captivity in order to permanently establish them in the North American hobby, or they will die out, and it will be another loooong time before we get these here again.

The same is true for Macrothele--another long desired, and just now acquired genus in the US hobby. We need to breed 'em to keep 'em.

I dont think Phoneutria should be stablished in the hobby, and I actually hope it doesnt.
That is bomb waiting to explode. Too many careless kids.
We could end up having gold fish in our tanks.
 

The Spider Faery

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
696
I also don't agree with this spider being a species for 'the hobby' or as a pet, but only for professional arachnologists or entomologists with a need to study them for educational purposes about venom, for instance.
 

bluefrogtat2

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
913
i have had them in the past,they are a very difficult species to even keep alive yet alone breed..i would love to see pics,and not only would i take the specimen but would pay for it...lol(i personally would love to see these established with some of the more experienced keepers in the states,they make a very interesting captive for sure)
andy
 

Venom

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
1,709
I dont think Phoneutria should be stablished in the hobby, and I actually hope it doesnt.
That is bomb waiting to explode. Too many careless kids.
We could end up having gold fish in our tanks.
I also don't agree with this spider being a species for 'the hobby' or as a pet, but only for professional arachnologists or entomologists with a need to study them for educational purposes about venom, for instance.
Not to get inflammatory, but I don't see why you have such an issue with Phoneutria being in the hobby, when the US herp hobby has had cobras and puff adders for decades without inducing an apocalypse. Do you really think Phoneutria are worse?

"Kids" and novices are not going to buy Phoneutria if the community of hobbyists does its job educating them and encouraging responsible decision-making about what to keep, and what to put off for later. That's our job as experts.

I am glad we have Phoneutria, and I am glad we have Sicarius. I wish we had Missulena also. Personally, I would not keep an Atrax-Hadronyche, nor would I keep a P.fera/ nigriventor. BUT, I don't think my personal safety preferences should dictate availability of those species to other hobbyists who would be ok with keeping them. Expert-only spiders have a good home among the experts, and I think they should be kept in the US hobby by and for the more experienced and knowledgable keepers.

I think all the above species should remain available, and we should just make wise decisions individually about what we keep, instead of making blanket statements about what should be kept from the hobby as a whole.
 
Top