Pandinus species

Crom

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With the new pics I'm leaning hard to both being P. imperator. A lot more apparent granulation on the chelae
 

Tleilaxu

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Well I lost one of the scorpions, my second one, and I'm at a loss, since both are being kept in the same conditions, the first one is very active and has quite the appetite, while the one that passed became listless over several days and stopped eating or drinking.

I assumed a molt was imminent but sadly this wasn't the case. I know immature don't always make it but losing them sucks regardless.

Temps were in the mid 80s with a cool spot,(four inches of substrate for burrowing) and again the other is thriving, alert to both me and food and enjoys digging up its enclosure.
 

Dry Desert

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Well I lost one of the scorpions, my second one, and I'm at a loss, since both are being kept in the same conditions, the first one is very active and has quite the appetite, while the one that passed became listless over several days and stopped eating or drinking.

I assumed a molt was imminent but sadly this wasn't the case. I know immature don't always make it but losing them sucks regardless.

Temps were in the mid 80s with a cool spot,(four inches of substrate for burrowing) and again the other is thriving, alert to both me and food and enjoys digging up its enclosure.
Sorry for your loss. Looking at the photos of both back in early April, the second one looks quite lean. If both scorpions were kept in the same enclosure with a temperature in the mid 80,s with a cool area, you may find the second one was forced to spend it's time in the cold, hence not eating properly.I have found that if you give them a cool end they never use it, and mine always go for the hottest spots. Also you say your other scorpion enjoys digging up it's enclosure, not normal. Okay for a desert species, not for Pandinus, they will choose the best spot, dig down and stay there, especially once settled, if it's constantly digging it's not happy, keep the temperature in the high 80,s, nothing lower, with a good permanently moist substrate, damp but not wet. If you do keep scorpions together, try to have at least two more hides than scorpions. Pop down to the shop and purchase another.
 

Tleilaxu

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Sorry for your loss. Looking at the photos of both back in early April, the second one looks quite lean. If both scorpions were kept in the same enclosure with a temperature in the mid 80,s with a cool area, you may find the second one was forced to spend it's time in the cold, hence not eating properly.I have found that if you give them a cool end they never use it, and mine always go for the hottest spots. Also you say your other scorpion enjoys digging up it's enclosure, not normal. Okay for a desert species, not for Pandinus, they will choose the best spot, dig down and stay there, especially once settled, if it's constantly digging it's not happy, keep the temperature in the high 80,s, nothing lower, with a good permanently moist substrate, damp but not wet. If you do keep scorpions together, try to have at least two more hides than scorpions. Pop down to the shop and purchase another.
I keep juvis separate to lower variables. Substrate is always moist. Raising the temps won't be difficult. I will keep a sharp eye on the other one, but it's eating a drinking regularly.

Now that you bring it up, the lean one was like that at time of purchase, and never had a serious appetite to begin with. While know losses are sometimes inevitable, it never hurts to reevaluate setups and routines just to be sure.
 

Tleilaxu

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Ordered two new p imperator to replace the one i lost, shipping was a flat rate so may as well use it.(None of my local stores had any, so I had to go online, which is sketchy with this species) Glad to say that both the new arrivals were in fact P imperator

0512211638b.jpg

I've completely redone the set ups, I've decided to use smaller enclosures to limit the possibility of unforseen issues, such as losing crickets.
0512211647.jpg
They do have little leaves and bark pieces in which they can hide under, along with enough substrate to burrow.

And finally to manage temps and humidity better I'm keeping the three smaller enclosures in a larger setup.
0512211657.jpg
Temps are currently at the sweet spot of 85, in keeping a sharp eye on temps to make sure the bulb isn't too hot, the last thing I need is cooked scorps after my recent loss. Not to mention, all the eggs are in one basket.

One of the new arrivals started eating after a few minutes. So I think im on the right path.
0512211722c~2.jpg

As a note my first scorpion(in the opening post) continues to do well, eating and drinking regularly, along with its unmitigated hatred of the world. :D
 
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zeeman

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Glad you have things moving in a positive direction.


Question, what's wrong with Heterometrus? Is it just that they don't cost as much or something else? You seemed disappointed if that's what you ended up getting.
 

Dry Desert

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Glad you have things moving in a positive direction.


Question, what's wrong with Heterometrus? Is it just that they don't cost as much or something else? You seemed disappointed if that's what you ended up getting.
People seem to have this thing about Emperor's, here in the UK as well. Usual reason when something becomes rare we all have to have some and breed them and sell the offspring for lots of money - good idea - now Emperor's are now becoming the " common species" with prices almost on a par with the " awfully common " Heterometrus. The majority of my scorpions are 2 species of Heterometrus - won't be keeping anything else now, kept Pandinus many years ago, sold the lot to a breeder, who has since sold all his.
 

Dry Desert

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Ordered two new p imperator to replace the one i lost, shipping was a flat rate so may as well use it.(None of my local stores had any, so I had to go online, which is sketchy with this species) Glad to say that both the new arrivals were in fact P imperator

View attachment 384649

I've completely redone the set ups, I've decided to use smaller enclosures to limit the possibility of unforseen issues, such as losing crickets.
View attachment 384650
They do have little leaves and bark pieces in which they can hide under, along with enough substrate to burrow.

And finally to manage temps and humidity better I'm keeping the three smaller enclosures in a larger setup.
View attachment 384651
Temps are currently at the sweet spot of 85, in keeping a sharp eye on temps to make sure the bulb isn't too hot, the last thing I need is cooked scorps after my recent loss. Not to mention, all the eggs are in one basket.

One of the new arrivals started eating after a few minutes. So I think im on the right path.
View attachment 384652

As a note my first scorpion(in the opening post) continues to do well, eating and drinking regularly, along with its unmitigated hatred of the world. :D
Glad things are looking good. P,S, if you are that upset with your Heterometrus not being an Emperor, send it across the pond - I will gladly add it to my collection of Heterometrus.
 

Tleilaxu

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Glad you have things moving in a positive direction.


Question, what's wrong with Heterometrus? Is it just that they don't cost as much or something else? You seemed disappointed if that's what you ended up getting.
I've never liked Heterometrus, just a personal thing, and certainly I would be upset at paying 80 dollars for a scorpion that's only 20, it's like buying a parson's chameleon and getting a veiled. Of course I feel that they deserve their own dedicated following yo keep them in the hobby as well. They just aren't for me.

Luckily for me all scorps appear to be imperator.

Glad things are looking good. P,S, if you are that upset with your Heterometrus not being an Emperor, send it across the pond - I will gladly add it to my collection of Heterometrus.
Fortunately all appear to be imperator, but I'm glad Heterometrus has its own devoted fans, to keep them secure in the hobby as well.

As for money, I'm not going to get rich off of breeding imperator, but if through my efforts I can help keep them secure in the hobby that will be enough. Its the least I can do is try to repay the great times my two WCs gave me as a teen.

The idea of losing them from the hobby unsettles me, they were my first scorps, and given both were very gentle and mild mannered left me smitten to this day, even though I've kept various other species.
 
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Smotzer

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Would be great if more of these could be CB regularly sending positive vibes your way
 

zeeman

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I've never liked Heterometrus, just a personal thing, and certainly I would be upset at paying 80 dollars for a scorpion that's only 20, it's like buying a parson's chameleon and getting a veiled. Of course I feel that they deserve their own dedicated following yo keep them in the hobby as well. They just aren't for me.

Luckily for me all scorps appear to be imperator.



Fortunately all appear to be imperator, but I'm glad Heterometrus has its own devoted fans, to keep them secure in the hobby as well.
I'm a total newbie to the scorpion world. From my understanding in research the Emperor and Asian Forest only differed slightly in appearance (granulated claws vs smooth and then stinger, but later learned Asian Forests can have Amber stingers too) and that the Asians might be more defensive and active. I chose the Asian over the Emperor for its hopefully higher level of activity. They both look awesome.

I fully appreciate everyone has their favorites, and you advanced keepers understand far more subtle differences. I also didn't know there was a 4x cost difference between the two. I know the recent history of Emperor but I guess for me I assumed since Emperor was always one of the most popular scorpions for beginners it would be similarly priced to Asian Forests.

Overall it's pretty cool that this and with Tarantulas, hobbyists are trying to keep things going. Hope you'll keep updating the thread.
 

Tleilaxu

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Nothing new to report everyone is eating, drinking and seems content.
 

Ian14

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Imperator are now CITES II and as of the most recent data there is a 0 export quota.
In other words, you cannot legally buy wc imperator.
So either you are buying smuggled animals, or they are not imperator. Unless captive bred of course.
My guess is, you have Asian forests.
 

Collin Clary

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Imperator are now CITES II and as of the most recent data there is a 0 export quota.
In other words, you cannot legally buy wc imperator.
So either you are buying smuggled animals, or they are not imperator. Unless captive bred of course.
My guess is, you have Asian forests.
P. imperator have been CITES listed since 1995. You can absolutely buy wild caught animals legally. To trade in CITES listed animals importers/exporters simply need an additional (relatively inexpensive) permit. This is easily verifiable on the CITES website, which also keeps records of legal imports/exports.

Currently P. imperator are being imported from the Congo, rather than where they were originally collected in Ghana, Togo, and Benin. It has been recommended that trade with Togo to be opened up because they are sustainably ranching the scorpions. (See the attached PDF below.)
 

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goliathusdavid

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P. imperator have been CITES listed since 1995. You can absolutely buy wild caught animals legally. To trade in CITES listed animals importers/exporters simply need an additional (relatively inexpensive) permit. This is easily verifiable on the CITES website, which also keeps records of legal imports/exports.
This is true. But how many US sellers do you think actually have gone to the trouble of CITES paperwork? Very few. You cannot deny that there has been fairly widespread trafficking of wild caught specimens of this species. Are there legal importers? Yes. Are they few and far between and mainly selling to institutions? Yes. So if you as an individual are buying a wild caught P. imperator in the US, the chances are high that it was smuggled.
To think that most US hobby keepers importing CITES listed species are actually importing them legally under CITES stipulations is, to be frank, delusional.
 

Collin Clary

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This is true. But how many US sellers do you think actually have gone to the trouble of CITES paperwork? Very few. You cannot deny that there has been fairly widespread trafficking of wild caught specimens of this species. Are there legal importers? Yes. Are they few and far between and mainly selling to institutions? Yes. So if you as an individual are buying a wild caught P. imperator in the US, the chances are high that it was smuggled.
You don't need a permit to sell in the US, just to import & export, which already requires permits. Typically what happens is that a few importers will order several hundred animals at a time, and these will then be distributed around the country.
 

goliathusdavid

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You don't need a permit to sell in the US, just to import & export, which already requires permits. Typically what happens is that a few importers will order several hundred animals at a time, and these will then be distributed around the country.
This I know. What I am saying is that to assume that importers of this species are actually obtaining permits and not smuggling is optimistic at best. Most legal importers are not hobbyists, and are not selling to hobbyists.
 
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