Pandinus imperator ate babies

jbcarter

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
6
I am pretty new to owning my scorpions, and up until a few days ago, I thought I had two boys. My scorpion “walter” had five babies and within the first few hours of me noticing, two had crawled down her side, one falling into the water dish. I fished the one out and attempted to put it back on her back but was unsuccessful so I placed it near her in hopes it would find its way back. She unfortunately ate both of the two. Today after arriving home, I took a peek through the side of my enclosure to find no babies at all. After picking up one of the log hides I found one baby flipped over and unmoving with no others in sight. I was curious if there was anything that could have prevented this or if it’s simply just one of those things that happens occasionally?
 

jbcarter

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
6
You disturbed her too much, she stress ate them.
As much as I’d like to agree, between the first discovery of the babies and today, there’s been about a week of no interaction. And even the first interaction was only one attempt of me trying to put the baby on her back.
 

MrGhostMantis

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
1,007
As much as I’d like to agree, between the first discovery of the babies and today, there’s been about a week of no interaction. And even the first interaction was only one attempt of me trying to put the baby on her back.
That would have been enough to stress her out.
 

Joey Spijkers

Arachnoprince
Active Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
1,054
At what temperature are you keeping her? This can influence how successful the litter is. 5 babies is a small litter.
 

Dry Desert

Arachnoprince
Active Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
1,552
I am pretty new to owning my scorpions, and up until a few days ago, I thought I had two boys. My scorpion “walter” had five babies and within the first few hours of me noticing, two had crawled down her side, one falling into the water dish. I fished the one out and attempted to put it back on her back but was unsuccessful so I placed it near her in hopes it would find its way back. She unfortunately ate both of the two. Today after arriving home, I took a peek through the side of my enclosure to find no babies at all. After picking up one of the log hides I found one baby flipped over and unmoving with no others in sight. I was curious if there was anything that could have prevented this or if it’s simply just one of those things that happens occasionally?
You say you have 2 scorpions, are they in the same enclosure. If you could send pictures of the enclosure and more details of temperature and substrate condition, it would help. If they were new born and white, they shouldn't be climbing around, if they were not white and had molted once they may have been looking for food. More details would help.
 

jbcarter

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
6
At what temperature are you keeping her? This can influence how successful the litter is. 5 babies is a small litter.
When I got her, I was told 70-80 so I maintain that temperature. Heat lamp during the day, and off at night.
 

Beetles

Arachnosquire
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Messages
91
How long did you have her? I'm guessing the two scorps were kept together? If you had her for a while what were her feedings like/how much did you feed? I dont think you stressed her but eating babies and babies getting knocked off could be stress or a bad brood, since she had so few? Another question since you thought you had two males did the female not have a large abdomen/full looking?
 

jbcarter

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
6
How long did you have her? I'm guessing the two scorps were kept together? If you had her for a while what were her feedings like/how much did you feed? I dont think you stressed her but eating babies and babies getting knocked off could be stress or a bad brood, since she had so few? Another question since you thought you had two males did the female not have a large abdomen/full looking?
I have had them since December. I’ve been feeding them crickets, although I tried mealworms, but they had no interest. When I first received the two I had been instructed to throw a dozen in the tank each week but have since learned that’s not great, so I have been putting 2-5 in for them to feed on every other day. The female was bigger and much more aggressive but I chalked it up to her being more dominant.
 

jbcarter

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
6
You say you have 2 scorpions, are they in the same enclosure. If you could send pictures of the enclosure and more details of temperature and substrate condition, it would help. If they were new born and white, they shouldn't be climbing around, if they were not white and had molted once they may have been looking for food. More details would help.
Yes, they came as a pair in the same enclosure. I don’t currently have a picture of the tank itself, but I will attach one of the babies. I bounce back and forth between coco husk and cypress mulch. I mist the tank nightly, and have a heat lamp on during the day that I turn off at night. I have a temperature gauge that I keep in the tank to monitor my temperature and humidity. The babies themselves were white, and I did watch one crawl down the mothers side upon my first discovery of them.
 

Attachments

Beetles

Arachnosquire
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Messages
91
Yes, they came as a pair in the same enclosure. I don’t currently have a picture of the tank itself, but I will attach one of the babies. I bounce back and forth between coco husk and cypress mulch. I mist the tank nightly, and have a heat lamp on during the day that I turn off at night. I have a temperature gauge that I keep in the tank to monitor my temperature and humidity. The babies themselves were white, and I did watch one crawl down the mothers side upon my first discovery of them.
It's an asian forest scorpion and too dry.
 

Joey Spijkers

Arachnoprince
Active Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
1,054
Way too dry.
Also not Pandinus imperator, but Heterometrus sp. Can’t tell for sure what species based on this picture. May be laoticus, but picture quality is simply too bad to tell. Temperature could have been higher. As long as she had a spot under the heat lamp where she could warm up to 80-85F during the day, that is fine though.
 

Dry Desert

Arachnoprince
Active Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
1,552
Yes, they came as a pair in the same enclosure. I don’t currently have a picture of the tank itself, but I will attach one of the babies. I bounce back and forth between coco husk and cypress mulch. I mist the tank nightly, and have a heat lamp on during the day that I turn off at night. I have a temperature gauge that I keep in the tank to monitor my temperature and humidity. The babies themselves were white, and I did watch one crawl down the mothers side upon my first discovery of them.
Firstly no one is saying you have done any wrong, you have only acted on advice given. Next temperature - they require a pretty constant 80-85 day and night, where they come from the temperature doesn't vary much, unlike desert species that require a night time drop. You can allow a temperature drop to the high 70,s not much lower. The substrate you have is fine, but very dry. You need to soak the substrate so that when you pick up a handful and squeeze it , it feels very wet but no water comes out. Next - feeding, if you have been feeding 2-5 every other day, it's way too much, and the female will stop eating when gravid anyway. 2-5 once a week will be fine. You may find there are several crickets hiding in the enclosure and this is what has stressed the female out causing her to kill and eat her young. If the female becomes gravid again, remove her to her own quiet enclosure. If the advice you have received is from a retailer/ shop, I certainly wouldn't go there again, as others have said you have 2 Heterometrus scorpions, not Pandinus. As you probably know it's a constant learning curve keeping inverts of any kind, I've been doing it since the 80,s - and still learning. If you have any questions/ problems in the future you know where we are and you are welcome anytime.
 

Liquifin

Arachnoking
Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
2,110
When I got her, I was told 70-80 so I maintain that temperature. Heat lamp during the day, and off at night.
Heat lamps "could work" for scorpions, but I think it's not a good choice for a source of heat for baby broods on a mother scorpion. Baby scorpions will get cooked if under hot heat lamps, I recommend a space heater or at least provide heating cables for sources of heat. And I do agree that the enclosure is dry, which is not optimal or good for any Asian Forest Scorpion. They prefer moist substrate, so I recommend pouring water into the substrate and not spray as spraying is not good enough for them. Baby scorpions are very fragile and quite sensitive to an extent, so I hope this information helps.
 

jbcarter

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
6
Firstly no one is saying you have done any wrong, you have only acted on advice given. Next temperature - they require a pretty constant 80-85 day and night, where they come from the temperature doesn't vary much, unlike desert species that require a night time drop. You can allow a temperature drop to the high 70,s not much lower. The substrate you have is fine, but very dry. You need to soak the substrate so that when you pick up a handful and squeeze it , it feels very wet but no water comes out. Next - feeding, if you have been feeding 2-5 every other day, it's way too much, and the female will stop eating when gravid anyway. 2-5 once a week will be fine. You may find there are several crickets hiding in the enclosure and this is what has stressed the female out causing her to kill and eat her young. If the female becomes gravid again, remove her to her own quiet enclosure. If the advice you have received is from a retailer/ shop, I certainly wouldn't go there again, as others have said you have 2 Heterometrus scorpions, not Pandinus. As you probably know it's a constant learning curve keeping inverts of any kind, I've been doing it since the 80,s - and still learning. If you have any questions/ problems in the future you know where we are and you are welcome anytime.
I appreciate all the information I’ve been given here, and will certainly step to changing up the enclosure. I do have one more question though being, how can you tell that its a Heterometrus? What are the telling signs of this?
 

Dry Desert

Arachnoprince
Active Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
1,552
I appreciate all the information I’ve been given here, and will certainly step to changing up the enclosure. I do have one more question though being, how can you tell that its a Heterometrus? What are the telling signs of this?
The main giveaway is that Pandinus species have wider claws, which are heavily granulated - bumpy - Heterometrus species have much smoother claws and narrower. Also Pandinus has granulation over the body, Heterometrus smooth.
 

zeeman

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
139
I've also read the stinger on the emperor is Amber and on the Asian Forest, black like the rest of the scorpion.
 

Dry Desert

Arachnoprince
Active Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
1,552
I've also read the stinger on the emperor is Amber and on the Asian Forest, black like the rest of the scorpion.
Sorry, not true - some are black, some are amber/ red, depends on the species of Heterometrus ( Asian Forest).
 

zeeman

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
139
Sorry, not true - some are black, some are amber/ red, depends on the species of Heterometrus ( Asian Forest).
Thats a very common mistake a LOT of articles and videos on the two species are making then.
 
Top