Pairing Obligate Burrowers

EulersK

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It appears as if my AF C. darlingi has finally entered premolt again, meaning I'd like to pair her shortly after her molt. I have two small logistical questions regarding this. I'm asking now because I'd like to rehouse her if need be if this enclosure won't accommodate the breeding. She's currently in a large tea jug with about 14" of substrate, which she's dug to the bottom.

Firstly, how exactly would I know if she even drops a sac? I'm not fond of the idea of wrangling slings, but I have no way of seeing her or a sac.

Secondly, if I find out that she does drop a sac, how on earth do I get it away from her without completely digging her up (and possibly harm the eggs)?

These seem like basic questions, but I can't for the life of me find a breeding report that goes over this. The only 'solution' I've found is housing her in an enclosure with <6" of substrate... which is not an option to me.
 

Spidermolt

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It appears as if my AF C. darlingi has finally entered premolt again, meaning I'd like to pair her shortly after her molt. I have two small logistical questions regarding this. I'm asking now because I'd like to rehouse her if need be if this enclosure won't accommodate the breeding. She's currently in a large tea jug with about 14" of substrate, which she's dug to the bottom.

Firstly, how exactly would I know if she even drops a sac? I'm not fond of the idea of wrangling slings, but I have no way of seeing her or a sac.

Secondly, if I find out that she does drop a sac, how on earth do I get it away from her without completely digging her up (and possibly harm the eggs)?

These seem like basic questions, but I can't for the life of me find a breeding report that goes over this. The only 'solution' I've found is housing her in an enclosure with <6" of substrate... which is not an option to me.
Sorry to intrude here but I'm interested too because I've never bred Obligated burrowers myself and with recently finding out that I have 2 female C. marshalli I know that I'll be breeding them both so I'm all ears!
 

cold blood

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You'll see a massive amount of webbing, after that she will lay across the sac. If you can't see her, she will just be gone....but lots of webbing should be a giveaway. My last one hatched with mom...still had to dig out many of the nymphs.

I'd try to gather the sac at 25 days.
 

KezyGLA

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Breeding OBs I rehouse to temperary wider enclosure with smaller amount of sub usually only 7" or so. Makes it easier to get to sac. You may even see her at mouth of burrow more and be able to grab the sac from her there. If not a short dig in order to get it without moving to much sub.
 

EulersK

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Ah, I really didn't want to rehouse her, especially in an enclosure with relatively little substrate. Oh well, it looks like I don't have much of an option.

If I just left her with the sac and allowed the slings to hatch naturally, would they leave the burrow on their own before cannibalism takes hold? Because I could leave her current enclosure with the lid off in a larger container. That way the slings have somewhere to go, and then they're contained. Has anyone heard of trying that?
 

KezyGLA

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@EulersK I havent used any enclosures suitable for leaving sac in yet without possible escapees aha. So I am not sure on that one but I would guess they would go their seperate ways as they do naturally in the wild. A larger enclosure could be a great idea
 

EulersK

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@KezyGLA
Unless I get some more feedback, I may be trying this. My only logistical concern would be physically finding all of the slings after they leave. That would be a daunting task, and one that has a lot of room for error. And, of course, cannibalism...
 

Bugmom

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I'm in the same boat here with my lividum. I DO NOT want to dig that crazy female up again. We saw how well the last rehouse went!

Although at this point, my focus is just getting them to breed in the first place. The first attempt was wildly UNsuccesful, resulting in her ripping his pedipalp off. Poor dude just has one now. I don't think they like each other.
 

Jeff23

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I am fairly naive on the breeding subject so take my comment with a grain of salt.

If you choose to breed her and let the slings hatch with the female, I wonder if you could convert a container like these weather tight ones to hold your tea jug.
https://www.amazon.com/IRIS-Quart-WEATHERTIGHT-Storage-Clear/dp/B00CZOKOWI/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1486579990&sr=1-1&keywords=IRIS+32+Quart+WEATHERTIGHT+Storage+Box,+Clear

I am not sure if you could find a mesh at the hardware store that could be hot melted to it to allow some air flow while keeping tiny slings contained.

EDIT* I do know that hot melt will hold screen to the plastic really well because I did it for my cricket container. I am just not sure what the hole sizes are for the mesh.
 

EulersK

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I am fairly naive on the breeding subject so take my comment with a grain of salt.

If you choose to breed her and let the slings hatch with the female, I wonder if you could convert a container like these weather tight ones to hold your tea jug.
https://www.amazon.com/IRIS-Quart-WEATHERTIGHT-Storage-Clear/dp/B00CZOKOWI/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1486579990&sr=1-1&keywords=IRIS+32+Quart+WEATHERTIGHT+Storage+Box,+Clear

I am not sure if you could find a mesh at the hardware store that could be hot melted to it to allow some air flow while keeping tiny slings contained.

EDIT* I do know that hot melt will hold screen to the plastic really well because I did it for my cricket container. I am just not sure what the hole sizes are for the mesh.
I've actually got a similar solution lined up. I have a large water-tight container that is specifically designed to collect rainwater. It already has a hole in the top for a hose, so some fine mesh will work like a charm. If I do this, my plan is to put the tea jug in there and fill the container up with dirt to the rim of the tea jug, similar to what we do with water dishes. But like I said, finding the slings would be a massive pain. Not to mention, I'll never be 100% sure that all slings ever left the burrow.

I feel like I'll end up losing a good chunk of spiders with this method...

I may end up taking @KezyGLA's advice. I'll lure her out, catch her, and house her in a new shallow enclosure. When the process is over and I have the sac, I can put her right back into her tea jug.
 

KezyGLA

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I have friends that use mosquito nets. I was thinking of trying this method if I was to let hatch instead of put to incubator
 

Willuminati

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I've tried this. Surprisingly, it blocks too much air flow. I was shocked at that.
Wow that's a bummer, maybe by stretching them across the opening a bit before locking it down the airflow may increase?
 

Willuminati

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I'm getting ready to try my Lividum out on a pairing with both my MM's but these dang Asian terrestrials keep me shook :eek:
 
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cold blood

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Ah, I really didn't want to rehouse her, especially in an enclosure with relatively little substrate. Oh well, it looks like I don't have much of an option.

If I just left her with the sac and allowed the slings to hatch naturally, would they leave the burrow on their own before cannibalism takes hold? Because I could leave her current enclosure with the lid off in a larger container. That way the slings have somewhere to go, and then they're contained. Has anyone heard of trying that?
They will disperse right away...generally not too far...but I honestly don't see the big deal with letting them hatch with mom, just make sure they can't get out of the ventilation. My ezendami hatched with mom, and I had to plug all the lower ventilation....funny thing is that one escaped and was found last month (about 5 months after hatching)....thin as can be and still just 2i...but lively as can be.

Really, in collecting the slings, its just a matter of putting mom in a catch cup, and since they have a brood, theyre less likely to choose flight in the fight or flight response...most will stand their ground, making it a relatively simple task of putting a deli cup over her.....digging out the ones that don't disperse and stay deep in the burrow is a pain though and reason enough to try to get the sac before it hatches.
 

EulersK

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They will disperse right away...generally not too far...but I honestly don't see the big deal with letting them hatch with mom, just make sure they can't get out of the ventilation. My ezendami hatched with mom, and I had to plug all the lower ventilation....funny thing is that one escaped and was found last month (about 5 months after hatching)....thin as can be and still just 2i...but lively as can be.

Really, in collecting the slings, its just a matter of putting mom in a catch cup, and since they have a brood, theyre less likely to choose flight in the fight or flight response...most will stand their ground, making it a relatively simple task of putting a deli cup over her.....digging out the ones that don't disperse and stay deep in the burrow is a pain though and reason enough to try to get the sac before it hatches.
Ahhh... fine. I'll be catching her after the molt and housing her in a shallower enclosure. I'll just keep the tea jug burrow intact so she can move right back into it after I pull the sac. I'm not happy about it, but whatever.

Any word on your males maturing, by the way? My girl refused her first meal last night and began slowly webbing her burrow shut this morning. So it'll happen... eventually.
 

cold blood

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Ahhh... fine. I'll be catching her after the molt and housing her in a shallower enclosure. I'll just keep the tea jug burrow intact so she can move right back into it after I pull the sac. I'm not happy about it, but whatever.

Any word on your males maturing, by the way? My girl refused her first meal last night and began slowly webbing her burrow shut this morning. So it'll happen... eventually.
IME AF Creatogryus stay fat for extensive periods of time before molting...mine looked like it was going to pop last spring...here I am nearly a year later and she's still fat as ever, but also still willing to eat and not showing signs of an impending molt.

I heard someone here (ceratogryus perhaps) describe that they tend to hold eggs for long periods of time instead of just molting...ya never know when you will find a mate on the African plains....gotta hold those eggs as long as possible.

I am pretty certain my smallest is male....he's still a few molts away...but if either of the other two are male, they should be penultimate, or not more than two molts away....I would think we will have a better grasp in late spring, but I will keep you posted of course.

I think fatting the female up really good is a good plan before pairing.
 

EulersK

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IME AF Creatogryus stay fat for extensive periods of time before molting...mine looked like it was going to pop last spring...here I am nearly a year later and she's still fat as ever, but also still willing to eat and not showing signs of an impending molt.

I heard someone here (ceratogryus perhaps) describe that they tend to hold eggs for long periods of time instead of just molting...ya never know when you will find a mate on the African plains....gotta hold those eggs as long as possible.

I am pretty certain my smallest is male....he's still a few molts away...but if either of the other two are male, they should be penultimate, or not more than two molts away....I would think we will have a better grasp in late spring, but I will keep you posted of course.

I think fatting the female up really good is a good plan before pairing.
Yeah, she's a fat one at the moment. I recently posted a picture of her - glad I did, I had no idea she was in premolt. Last time she went under to molt, I didn't see her for about six months. So it's definitely doing to be awhile.

 

Thistles

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Just a reminder that her sac will be a hammock sac. I'm sure you knew, but not sure that you took that into account. I generally leave the hammocks in with mom and let them hatch with her. It can be a bit of a circus to wrangle the slings later, but just get mom out and be patient and it's doable.

I've been expecting a molt from my darlingi for a year now and no luck. Maybe more, actually. She hasn't eaten in ages. Her spirit animal is a rosea.
 
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