P. Irminia "playing with food" - bad news?

[abstract]

P. Irminia "playing with food" - broken fangs

I have a 2.5" P. Irminia juvie - that wouldn't eat for a long time......Right after RugbyDave offered me advice on how to make a Food ICU - I offered it some food and it sprung - threw 4 crix and a waxworm in there....

He jumped on one of the crix right off - and I thought was eating it - but I don't think he was using his fangs..... Either way - he cast the cricket aside after about 10 minutes (it walked away from the incident), then proceeded to do the same thing with the waxworm for OVER an HOUR.

He put that down, and it crawled away. Has anybody else had a spider do this? He just molted a couple of weeks ago - and I'm wondering if maybe lost the use of his fangs for some reason? I'm looking at it now, and it looks like is least his left fang is just a nub....I will post a picture as soon as I can get one.

 

[RugbyDave]

maybe he ruined a fang after it ate too quick after a molt and the fangs weren't hardened up?

Or, it could just not be hungry?
At least it pounced on the food in the FOOD ICU and got SOME nutrition from it.. if my T wasn't eating, i'd take it playing with its food for an hour or so over nothing

keep trying --

i have had T's kill food, keep it in the chelicerae for a bit, then cast it aside.

the more you keep these guys, the less worried you get. don't worry...

make sure there's some water in the tank, and make sure the temp is maybe a bit warmer than it should -- that can stimulate the 'appetite' (term used loosely)

good luck!
keep trying!
peace
dave
LETS SEE SOME PICS

 

[abstract]

Cool - Actually - I didn't put him in the food ICU - just came back and threw some food in. It definitely looks like he's missing at least A fang - i couldn't get a good angle on a pic.

He did end up killing a crik while I stepped out for a smoke - and i can see the digestive juices (drool) flowing - so he's probably cool - a few more molts and the fang will return?

 

[skadiwolf]

i think fangs only take one molt to regenerate...

 

[RugbyDave]

thanks alot abstract --

now my P.irm just munched on a cricket for about 20 mins and threw the rest down

she webbed it up though, so i'm assuming it'll be for dinner while we're watching adult swim later on tonite... =D

peace
dave

 

[abstract]

hehe - sorry dave. I don't know what the deal with mine is - no food for forever, (probably due to the broken fangs) - and now it has been running around since last night intermittently trying to eat.

He got one small crik down - but couldn't actually puncture a waxworm (it was funny - just rolled it around like an ear of corn for quite a while) - so I'm thinking about the food ICU w/cut up waxworms? Does that work? I figure it needs something pretty soft in order to eat w/out fangs - hopefully he'll force himself into another molt before too long....

 

[si_sleaf]

If it has a broken fang I think the best thing to do would be raise humidity and temperature to speed up the next molt. This is what I read on another forum so please don't take this as gospel.

Can somebody confirm this is correct?

By the way, what IS an ICU?

 

[RugbyDave]

just wait till the next molt, but do try some soft mushed up waxworms or mealworms...

the thing is, you have to make sure the fangs are hardened after a molt before you feed.

there's always the chance the fang may not grow back..

however, if its a growing nub, it may not be fully ruined.. this is a wait-and-see situation!

try to snap some pics if you can!!!
goodluck!
peace

ICU - just like the human ICU at the hospitals (intensive care unit) basically a deli cup thats humid and warm and quiet... helps fix a broken T basically


peace
dave

 

[LCDXX]

Could you please copy/paste Dave's suggestions for an ICU? I'm interested in knowing his methodology.

Thanks!

LCDXX

 

[abstract]

Dave posted his suggestion for a food ICU (used to help a spider that isn't eating) in a reply to my ? - that is available here -

http://www.arachnopets.com/arachnoboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9383

Also - for more information on an ICU - I would recommend you pick up the Tarantula Keepers Guide - the acknowledged Tarantula bible to date.....you can pick that up at amazon.com. I think less than 15$ for a paperback.

 

[Poecilotheria]

A 3 1/2in. Usambara of mine was doing that for awhile, killing crickets and leaving them. Now its fine, confusing.
Steve

 

[luther]

The fangs are not used to chew the food, just to deliver a mechanical stabbing injury or to inject the venom if needed. As long as it's just missing a fang it should be quite able to eat waxworms and wounded crickets as far as I can see. The T uses toothed plates on the back of the chelicerae to mash up it's prey, sucking up only the liquids.
(experts please correct me if I'm wrong)
There's a short article on the ATS website that describes how one keeper managed to rescue one of his Ts that lost both fangs in a molt. The URL is: Tarantula Averts Death Sentence

I hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[Tamara]

Hi abstract
I'm pretty new out here, but I'm learning lots about everybody by reading up on things. I was also going to direct you to the "Tarantula averts death" link, it's a good read, but Luther beat me to it.
Dave, each time I read something from you I get a surprise. Just how many T's do you have?
Tamara

 

[RugbyDave]

Hey tamara

I have (a good rough estimate) around 255. But they're not all adults and they're not all slings.. a good 'across-the-board' mix...

ever since moving to the Twin Cities, i've increased my sling population by about 12 (ish) in 2 weeks.. for some real good prices, too!

I go to reptile shows alot (just drove 6 hours to Chicago for 5 T's).. and i'm always doing breeding loans (when i can)...

im also going to a shop down in St.Paul right now for 5 more

abs- let me know how the T is doing! it should be fine with some soft waxworms or mushy crickets =D

peace
dave

 

[Lopez]

Broken fangs are apparently common (though I've never had it happen to any of mine)

If the spider has one fang still functioning properly it should be able to feed.
My advice would be to elevate temperature and feed the spider as much as possible to encourage it to moult faster. We used this technique succesfully in my local reptile store to help an ailing Curly regenerate a fang.
I have also read similar reports where elevated temperatures and feeding patterns have beenused to induce an early moult in spiders that have suffered a poor moult or been injured.
I'm sure I read a bit of that in the TKG too but can't be certain.

 

[abstract]

THANK YOU - Great article!

Thank you Luther/Tamara for the tip-off - that is a good article.

As for an update on my irminia - i've been keeping it a little warm, but otherwise normally. It has been almost non-stop eating for the past couple days - but not very efficiently. The cricket count has diminished, and I watch him while i'm at work (webcam) with food in his mouth - so he's making an effort.

Also been misting a couple times a day - with the heat the humidity should be rather nice. I'm thinking I might be able to avoid the food icu or Xacto'd crix - but I'm keeping a close eye. I guess he's just crushing them Juice Tiger style.....Cause BOTH fangs are nubby.

BTW - I'm going to wait at least a couple of months after molting to feed beetles to my spides from now on.....

 

[luther]

I don't think it's neccessary to wait a couple of months to feed beetles to a T after a molt. I read an article by Shultz somewhere (maybe last month's ATS mag) where he said that a molted T is fully functional and safe from damage within hours of the molt. In my limited experience my Ts seem quite ready to feed after a couple of days. I suspect that your T lost it's fangs during the molting process, not after.

Here's a couple of quotes from the erratum for the TKG:

"Current usage defines the maxillae to be physical extensions of the coxae (i.e., "maxillary processes") that protrude from the inward edges of the coxae towards the centerline of the tarantula. These maxillae are used by the tarantula as an aid to "chewing" its food."

"The inward facing surfaces of the pedipalpal coxae frequently protrude somewhat. These are called "maxillae" (singular: maxilla), and are used to crush the tarantula's prey. In effect, they function like jaws."

"Tarantulas rely on their stout, powerful, chelicerae and fangs, and robust pedipalpal coxae (maxillae) to masticate (chew) their prey."

Please keep us updated on her progress.