OW readiness

Magenta

Arachnosquire
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
55
I've been thinking about this for a while. How does a person know if they're ready for an OW tarantula or highly venomous spider? Are there any guidelines? People often overestimate their own abilities or underestimate the tarantula.

Years of experience seems to be an iffy standard. A person could spend a decade making mistakes and never learning from them.

What about species like Sicarius? What should be the guidelines for owning a species like this?

I'm not talking about legal restrictions. I mean how are keepers supposed to know when they're ready for advanced/expert species?
 

Screamingreenmachine

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
65
From my own experience (which is very little compared to so many on here o my advice doesn't really carry much weight haha) is you are ready for the old world when you can't resist the urge anymore, but also when you do the research beforehand. The p. muticus goddess called me and I had to take the dive when my friend bought a 3.5inch one for me. I was nervous but found just being prepared every time I deal with it makes it really no different than any of my new worlds.

I don't think anyone knows if they are truly ready for an old world, until they have some experience with one. All I can say is if you find a species you really want, do the research, understand what you are getting into, and then take the dive once confident enough. Also I think people should start with small slings and grow with the spider. My friend got me the largest P. Muticus the store had for sale, so that definitely caused me to be even more nervous, haha! Wouldn't of minded starting with a smaller one but I love that monster to death now.

In all honesty, my B. Smithi is worse than the P. Muticus. She's a fast, angry, and bitey demon that loves to get my heart racing.
 

sasker

Arachnoangel
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
794
Interesting question. I am struggling with the same problem. The urge that @Screamingreenmachine to buy an OW is growing in me as well. Many keepers recommend any sp of Psalmopoeus genus as a bridge species for OW. They are faster and - as I understood - pack more of a punch when they bite you. However, I saw a very nice 1.5" P. muticus in the local pet shop the other day. I have not decided yet if I need first some more experience with a faster NW arboreal or if I should take the plunge buy buying my first OW fossorial. :happy:
 

Andrea82

Arachnoemperor
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Jan 12, 2016
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3,610
It depends, i guess, on what OW you'd like to have, and what you are keeping now, and for how long. Research goes a long way.
If you're going from a B.albopilosum sling to a P.murinus in a month's time, I'd advise against it.
But if you have been keeping faster/more defensive juvi/adult species (Psalmopoeus/ Phormictopus/Ephebopus) and want to get an A.ezendami, I'd say go for it.

Another aspect is that you need to have your husbandry down, since a lot of OW are burrowers or hiders, so you may not see them as often to keep track on how they are doing.
 

TarantulaArvind

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Messages
32
I've been thinking about this for a while. How does a person know if they're ready for an OW tarantula or highly venomous spider? Are there any guidelines? People often overestimate their own abilities or underestimate the tarantula.

Years of experience seems to be an iffy standard. A person could spend a decade making mistakes and never learning from them.

What about species like Sicarius? What should be the guidelines for owning a species like this?

I'm not talking about legal restrictions. I mean how are keepers supposed to know when they're ready for advanced/expert species?
There's no fixed external parameter to gauge your readiness.. It's all a matter of instinct and confidence.. Knowing your own potential and stacking them against the possible traits of the species in question.

If you know from within that you're ready, then it means you are ready.. But having said that,I'd also add that the readiness comes only from prior experience and research..

So, some might take 2 years to get ready, while some might be ready in 2 months.
These are "hot Ts" and keeping them is one thing.

But keeping fatally potent species ( sicarius , funnel webs, wandering spiders etc) is altogether a different ball game. Probably the owner needs to be tested for his aptitude and ability before allowing them to keep it.

In case of these species, the owner is additionally responsible for the safety of the people around him too (not only the spider and himself)..

I'd rather it be banned from being owned..I might sound like someone who's not willing to take a risk and handle these potent species.. Plz, I'm more concerned about the safety of the hobby and the people around me than to risk it for my own thrill and ego .
 

kevinlowl

Arachnoknight
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
215
I think Sicarius is nowhere near the levels of danger an OW tarantula poses for one reason which is it's inability to climb smooth vertical surfaces. Same goes for something like the S. Subspinipes centipede which is known for it's ridiculously painful bite. For OW tarantulas I think one just has to be super cautious and treat it like it's a crocodile and you're a zookeeper. Which means long tongs for everything and never get too cocky or confident when dealing with them.
 

creepa

Arachnoknight
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
261
Imho..., when you dont have the flinch reaction anymore then is the time to make the transfer.
 

AphonopelmaTX

Moderator
Staff member
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May 7, 2004
Messages
1,366
@creepa has a good point. One knows they are ready for faster more quick-to-bite or run species whether from the new or old world when they can work with the spiders they have and be 100 percent comfortable. Some need practice and need to be more hands on to get there while others have a natural confidence with fast venomous animals.

There is a lot to tarantula behavior that isn't described on the forums and every individual spider will react differently to being poked and prodded. Because of this, hands on experience is more beneficial to reading and watching videos on YouTube.
 

Andrea82

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P. murinus is definitely not yet on my wish list :D
Ah, I didn't see your reply before I posted so my comment wasn't aimed to you ;)
But yeah....P.murinus...I know the feel, and I don't think I will ever get that species tbh.
The P.muticus actually isn't that bad, except for housing and rehousings. Downside is you will rarely see it above ground, if at all. I saw mine when housing her in all her splendid defensiveness, but that was it. Not the best eater as well. But it is one OW who will not outpace your learning curve like P.murinus does, they grow really sloooow. I got her as a large sling, housed her rather big, and that was it. Only time I got nervous with her was when she started to dig and made four or five exits...I was nervous she would do a 'whack-a-mole/ jack in the box-thing on me. But nope, just stayed down :D

I think what @creepa posted is very important as well. If you're still jerking/jumpy when a 'calm' NW makes a move, then OW aren't the best spiders yet.

I've found that in the beginning, I was cautious for the spider to move wherever,and trying to be prepared for that.
Now, I think I'm actually able to say 'well, if I touch it one more time with the brush, it will do a runner on me'. (When rehousing. I don't touch my spiders randomly)
And I'm usually right. That feels good and makes me a little proud actually :)

Sorry for the long post...:shy:
 

Ungoliant

Malleus Aranearum
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Mar 7, 2012
Messages
3,826
I've been thinking about this for a while. How does a person know if they're ready for an OW tarantula or highly venomous spider?
I would say that once you feel comfortable with some of the faster and/or more defensive New World species (and not just when they're slings), you're ready to move on to some of the easier Old World species.

I have to admit that when I first got into tarantulas, I wouldn't have thought I would say this, but now I am starting to hear the siren call of Old World terrestrials. Maybe a Monocentropus balfouri, Ceratogyrus marshalli, Eucratoscelus pachypus, or Augacephalus ezendami for starters. (Though I may get another "bridge species" before then, such as Ephebopus murinus.)

Part of the reason I'm becoming more interested in OWs is to avoid urticating hairs, to which I seem to be sensitive.
 

Andrea82

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I would say that once you feel comfortable with some of the faster and/or more defensive New World species (and not just when they're slings), you're ready to move on to some of the easier Old World species.

I have to admit that when I first got into tarantulas, I wouldn't have thought I would say this, but now I am starting to hear the siren call of Old World terrestrials. Maybe a Monocentropus balfouri, Ceratogyrus marshalli, Eucratoscelus pachypus, or Augacephalus ezendami for starters. (Though I may get another "bridge species" before then, such as Ephebopus murinus.)

Part of the reason I'm becoming more interested in OWs is to avoid urticating hairs, to which I seem to be sensitive.
Same here. Brachypelma hairs are the worst for me.
And I must say it is a relief to be able to open an enclosure and not have to worry about the aftermath of itchiness. I rather have one in threatpose than kicking hairs at me tbh. Never thought I would say that....but then again, I never thought I would fall in love with baboons either...
For all the people in this thread who want to start 'dating' OW, I really really recommend Augacephalus ezendami/junodi. A bit skittish, but sweet as can be, and absolutely gorgeous. My jaw literally dropped when I first saw my ezendami girl for the first time. She makes me squeeeee every time I see her. Which is a lot since she doesn't burrow much despite the lots of substrate I gave her.
Eucratoscelus pachypus is also freakin cute, but mine is a little skittish and a little more defensive than my Augacephalus ladies. I don't mind, but it is worth mentioning. She took a while before she started burrowing, which was a pita because she would nervously start racing around the enclosure whenever I needed to feed or water her.

With all my OW and defensive NW I have put a hole in the lid directly above the waterdish, big enough to squeeze a syringe through for easy watering.
@Ungoliant , if you like the E.murinus, I'd say get one. You won't regret it. Just keep an eye on humidity, and add springtails to deal with nasties. Mine is out every night, showing those legs. Eats like a piggy too.
But all in the Ephebopus genus are pretty awesome looking tbh. :)
 

Ungoliant

Malleus Aranearum
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And I must say it is a relief to be able to open an enclosure and not have to worry about the aftermath of itchiness.
Not to mention manipulating the exuviae for sexing.


I rather have one in threatpose than kicking hairs at me tbh.
I find threat poses cute.

Fortunately, my tarantulas with urticating hairs are pretty easygoing, but if I get careless when doing cage maintenance, I regret it. The worst was when my double Avic passed away, and while cleaning out her cage, I removed the webbing and furnishings with my bare hands. I should have known better, but I was too lazy to put on gloves, and my hands itched for a couple of weeks.
 

Andrea82

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Not to mention manipulating the exuviae for sexing.




I find threat poses cute.

Fortunately, my tarantulas with urticating hairs are pretty easygoing, but if I get careless when doing cage maintenance, I regret it. The worst was when my double Avic passed away, and while cleaning out her cage, I removed the webbing and furnishings with my bare hands. I should have known better, but I was too lazy to put on gloves, and my hands itched for a couple of weeks.
I know what you mean....for a genus that doesn't flick, Avic hairs are really bad. Gbb too, at least for me. And they make u-hair traps, just laying some loose hairs in a pile so when I open the enclosure they just drift out....:shifty:

Edit: @Ungoliant
Threat poses can be cute..but I was seriously impressed with my P.muticus' attitude tbh, even though she's just five or so cm, she was fierce! Slapping and fangs dripping venom...:eek:
 

grayzone

Arachnoking
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Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,466
From my own experience (which is very little compared to so many on here o my advice doesn't really carry much weight haha) is you are ready for the old world when you can't resist the urge anymore, but also when you do the research beforehand. The p. muticus goddess called me and I had to take the dive when my friend bought a 3.5inch one for me. I was nervous but found just being prepared every time I deal with it makes it really no different than any of my new worlds.

I don't think anyone knows if they are truly ready for an old world, until they have some experience with one. All I can say is if you find a species you really want, do the research, understand what you are getting into, and then take the dive once confident enough. Also I think people should start with small slings and grow with the spider. My friend got me the largest P. Muticus the store had for sale, so that definitely caused me to be even more nervous, haha! Wouldn't of minded starting with a smaller one but I love that monster to death now.

In all honesty, my B. Smithi is worse than the P. Muticus. She's a fast, angry, and bitey demon that loves to get my heart racing.
From my own experience (which is very little compared to so many on here o my advice doesn't really carry much weight haha) is you are ready for the old world when you can't resist the urge anymore, but also when you do the research beforehand. The p. muticus goddess called me and I had to take the dive when my friend bought a 3.5inch one for me. I was nervous but found just being prepared every time I deal with it makes it really no different than any of my new worlds.

I don't think anyone knows if they are truly ready for an old world, until they have some experience with one. All I can say is if you find a species you really want, do the research, understand what you are getting into, and then take the dive once confident enough. Also I think people should start with small slings and grow with the spider. My friend got me the largest P. Muticus the store had for sale, so that definitely caused me to be even more nervous, haha! Wouldn't of minded starting with a smaller one but I love that monster to death now.

In all honesty, my B. Smithi is worse than the P. Muticus. She's a fast, angry, and bitey demon that loves to get my heart racing.
Agree 1000%... i get a lot of crap for it when i post my opinion here but who cares.
All boils down to tons of research, and having some confidence. Common sense helps too

A P regalis was my 2nd t ever after being in the hobby about a month.
To this day ive had countless OW ts and never had a bite or escape
 

Andrea82

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Messages
3,610
There's no fixed external parameter to gauge your readiness.. It's all a matter of instinct and confidence.. Knowing your own potential and stacking them against the possible traits of the species in question.

If you know from within that you're ready, then it means you are ready.. But having said that,I'd also add that the readiness comes only from prior experience and research..

So, some might take 2 years to get ready, while some might be ready in 2 months.
These are "hot Ts" and keeping them is one thing.

But keeping fatally potent species ( sicarius , funnel webs, wandering spiders etc) is altogether a different ball game. Probably the owner needs to be tested for his aptitude and ability before allowing them to keep it.

In case of these species, the owner is additionally responsible for the safety of the people around him too (not only the spider and himself)..

I'd rather it be banned from being owned..I might sound like someone who's not willing to take a risk and handle these potent species.. Plz, I'm more concerned about the safety of the hobby and the people around me than to risk it for my own thrill and ego .
I think you are being a bit overcautious. I understand why you feel this way, and I know you need extensive research for yourself to keep Theraphosids, but this goes for you, it is what you feel comfortable with, and doesn't go for everybody ;).

Also, Sicarius sp are not only kept for being a macho, they have some very interesting behaviours.
Do you need to do extensive research to keep 'hot' spiders? Yes. Should they be banned...I don't know.
 

sasker

Arachnoangel
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
794
I really really recommend Augacephalus ezendami/junodi.
That one is actually on the top of my list of OW spiders. I think it is an absolutely gorgeous spider, arguably the most beautiful baboon. The only problem is that I cannot buy 4-5 slings hoping for a female (small apartment, limited space) and the males are ridiculously small. Perhaps I should wait until I find a female for sale somewhere. I am not in a hurry, there are still too many interesting NWs to choose from anyway and I don't seem to have much problems with urticating setae so far.
 

Andrea82

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That one is actually on the top of my list of OW spiders. I think it is an absolutely gorgeous spider, arguably the most beautiful baboon. The only problem is that I cannot buy 4-5 slings hoping for a female (small apartment, limited space) and the males are ridiculously small. Perhaps I should wait until I find a female for sale somewhere. I am not in a hurry, there are still too many interesting NWs to choose from anyway and I don't seem to have much problems with urticating setae so far.
Good thing about the males being so small is you don't have to wait years before it will mature. Also, males are very, very much sought after since collecting them from wild is difficult because a lot of local collectors do not recognize it as A.ezendami. At least, that is what I've read.
But I understand and have done the same though.
Re: being in hurry or not: good. Nobody needs to hurry into anything Theraphosidae-related in my opinion. ;)
 

Bread

Arachnopeon
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
26
The hardest part about OW in my opinion is rehousing them, instead of running away from the brush like a NW does they turn round and lol at/attack it. But a little patience and it's no problem, the speed isn't an issue as long as you have prepared for the job correctly.
 
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