Orthoporus ornatus natural substrate experiment.

[DubiaW]

I ran across a superpod of Orthoporus ornatus last week while road cruising for amblypygi. I gathered a few for the sales list that I am working on for the months when it is cool enough to ship. They were placed in a tub with deep coco fiber mixed with local soil. I added some dried cactus flowers (which a few had been eating) and some oak leaves that were gathered this spring up the mountain. They devoured an apple powdered with calcium but started to become lethargic, and did not produce as much solid frass, within a few days. As I was getting ready to put together a proper millipede substrate I realized that none of the ingredients were native to any O. ornatus superpod locality that I have seen (I know of five now): no coco fiber, no rotting oak wood, no oak leaves, no cuttlefish bone etc. Then I started thinking about what I have observed them eating in the wild. I gathered more dried cactus flowers, rotting saguaro roots, decomposing paddle cactus skeletons, dried stems from fiddleneck weeds, dried grass, mesquite beans, dried mesquite flower and leaf debris, palo verde debris, etc. I mixed it together with local soil and about 30% coco fiber, (placing some on the surface so I could keep track of what they were eating). When I placed them back in their new substrate they promptly went to work eating and within a few days they were producing lots of solid frass pellets. This got me thinking, 'Maybe the reason O. ornatus don't breed in captivity well is because they aren't being fed what they eat in the wild.' I'm going to start experimenting with different natural materials and use the "traditional" millipede substrate as a control group. There are only a handful of plant species that are present in each locality that I have observed but that is still quite a list considering this includes leaves, stems, roots, dried flowers, fruit, seeds, decomposing cactus skeletons/wood etc. So far I have one enclosure with a mix of everything and a bunch of happy millipedes.

 

[mickiem]

I ran across a superpod of Orthoporus ornatus last week while road cruising for amblypygi. I gathered a few for the sales list that I am working on for the months when it is cool enough to ship. They were placed in a tub with deep coco fiber mixed with local soil. I added some dried cactus flowers (which a few had been eating) and some oak leaves that were gathered this spring up the mountain. They devoured an apple powdered with calcium but started to become lethargic, and did not produce as much solid frass, within a few days. As I was getting ready to put together a proper millipede substrate I realized that none of the ingredients were native to any O. ornatus superpod locality that I have seen (I know of five now): no coco fiber, no rotting oak wood, no oak leaves, no cuttlefish bone etc. Then I started thinking about what I have observed them eating in the wild. I gathered more dried cactus flowers, rotting saguaro roots, decomposing paddle cactus skeletons, dried stems from fiddleneck weeds, dried grass, mesquite beans, dried mesquite flower and leaf debris, palo verde debris, etc. I mixed it together with local soil and about 30% coco fiber, (placing some on the surface so I could keep track of what they were eating). When I placed them back in their new substrate they promptly went to work eating and within a few days they were producing lots of solid frass pellets. This got me thinking, 'Maybe the reason O. ornatus don't breed in captivity well is because they aren't being fed what they eat in the wild.' I'm going to start experimenting with different natural materials and use the "traditional" millipede substrate as a control group. There are only a handful of plant species that are present in each locality that I have observed but that is still quite a list considering this includes leaves, stems, roots, dried flowers, fruit, seeds, decomposing cactus skeletons/wood etc. So far I have one enclosure with a mix of everything and a bunch of happy millipedes.

I used 50% of my regular millipede mix and 50% mesquite, cholla and sand. I never saw any difference but I am not sure I was starting with the healthiest animals. I'm excited to see you trying this and look forward to learning what you find.

 

[RTTB]

Very interesting.

 

[DubiaW]

I used 50% of my regular millipede mix and 50% mesquite, cholla and sand. I never saw any difference but I am not sure I was starting with the healthiest animals. I'm excited to see you trying this and look forward to learning what you find.

One of the things on my list is creosote. At nearly every superpod locality it was the most prevalent plant including the Texas Gold superpod. I have seen them gnawing on the dead stems of this plant from time to time. Creosote wood doesn't decompose very well. I remember watching a few O. ornatus doing this and thinking "What could they possibly be getting from that?" I've also observed them eating limestone and caliche, both have Calcium Carbonate, that is pretty straight forward. Every locality has at least had caliche, only one had limestone too (the T Gold superpod). The Texas Gold superpod also had soil that was extremely high in gypsum (Calcium Sulfate). I've gathered some caliche for making hides. I'll add some tonight for a calcium source and cut off the calcium powder. The apples can probably be replaced with paddle cactus fruit.

 

[DubiaW]

Unfortunately I don't have any Texas Golds to experiment with at the moment. Has anyone had experience keeping those on standard millipede mix? Is there any problems with them losing their yellow color after being housed in captivity for long periods?

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

Off topic, but can you see amblypygids on the road while driving?

 

[ErinM31]

One of the things on my list is creosote. At nearly every superpod locality it was the most prevalent plant including the Texas Gold superpod. I have seen them gnawing on the dead stems of this plant from time to time. Creosote wood doesn't decompose very well. I remember watching a few O. ornatus doing this and thinking "What could they possibly be getting from that?" I've also observed them eating limestone and caliche, both have Calcium Carbonate, that is pretty straight forward. Every locality has at least had caliche, only one had limestone too (the T Gold superpod). The Texas Gold superpod also had soil that was extremely high in gypsum (Calcium Sulfate). I've gathered some caliche for making hides. I'll add some tonight for a calcium source and cut off the calcium powder. The apples can probably be replaced with paddle cactus fruit.

Would you be willing to sell no shipt some of these native materials that you collect? I would really love to add them to my Orthoporus enclosure!

 

[ErinM31]

Unfortunately I don't have any Texas Golds to experiment with at the moment. Has anyone had experience keeping those on standard millipede mix? Is there any problems with them losing their yellow color after being housed in captivity for long periods?

No, they don't lose their gold color. They do naturally come in a wide variation of color forms from gold to pumpkin to chocolate brown.

I've been keeping my O. ornatus on mostly coir with some standard millipede substrate as well as sand mixed in.

 

[DubiaW]

Off topic, but can you see amblypygids on the road while driving?

I find more amblypygi shining road cutouts and bar ditches than actually hiking in their prime habitat. Prime habitat is rocky hill sides with large boulders and lots of holes, (the kind of habitat where they are well hidden and never have to leave the safety of their cover). Last friday my friend and I caught 17 amblypygi that were spotted while shining from the seat of an air conditioned car. The low profile of the vehicle gives you a vantage point to see the bottom side of boulders and the roofs of burrows where they are usually hanging upside down. We get out and hike large cliff faces and caliche walls to get a closer look but most of the time we road cruse at less than 5 mph searching with flashlights.

No, they don't lose their gold color. They do naturally come in a wide variation of color forms from gold to pumpkin to chocolate brown.

I've been keeping my O. ornatus on mostly coir with some standard millipede substrate as well as sand mixed in.

I would love to find a Pumkin phase superpod.

Would you be willing to sell no shipt some of these native materials that you collect? I would really love to add them to my Orthoporus enclosure!

Yes. My friend saw what I was doing with my Oo's substrate and suggested that we develop a "natural habitat" variation of millipede substrate. Until then I would be happy to sell some of the ingredients that I am experimenting with. Most of the stuff can be baked and sterilized before shipping (cactus fruit excluded).

 

[DubiaW]

How do I delete my posts, BTW?

 

[DubiaW]

Post added to post above and deleted.

 

[KevinsWither]

Update me on those!! I'd be wanting to see the results!

 

[mickiem]

I would also be interested in your natural ingredients.

 

[DubiaW]

So far they haven't touched dried yucca blossoms.

 

[LawnShrimp]

If you plan on captive breeding, giving them a rainy/dry season is essential. I believe that's how this guy did it, but there's a lot he keeps secret, for a good reason. There's a book to be written here.
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/orthoporus-ornatus-captive-bred-babies.290239/

The creosote wood is interesting. Isn't it hard and full of chemicals, things millipedes shy away from?

 

[7Fin]

I can't wait to see your results. For science!

 

[ErinM31]

If you plan on captive breeding, giving them a rainy/dry season is essential. I believe that's how this guy did it, but there's a lot he keeps secret, for a good reason. There's a book to be written here.
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/orthoporus-ornatus-captive-bred-babies.290239/

The creosote wood is interesting. Isn't it hard and full of chemicals, things millipedes shy away from?

I don't believe they reproduce in captivity. I've seen reference to above before but NEVER any reliable information. Many of us have tried giving them wet and dry seasons, including @Mastigoproctus who also lives and collects them where they are native. It may be part of the equation, but it seems not to be sufficient to induce offspring. If you do decide to try that, I would recommend using deep substrate and keeping the lower levels slightly damp and never pouring water on the substrate while the millipedes are burrowed (I lost millipedes with to both mistakes ).

I do think that the creosote wood is worth a try, but maybe put it on one side of the enclosure only and see whether or not the millipedes avoid it. In my experience, Harpaphe haydienna millipedes are not happy unless there is Douglas Fir debris in their environment while most millipedes would avoid conifers unless very well decayed.

 

[Lain]

I also would be interested in buying some of your ingredients!

 

[DubiaW]

I also would be interested in buying some of your ingredients!

I'm only going to ship stuff that is tried and true food. There have been a lot of requests for these natural ingredients. I am going to go out this week sometime to bulk collect some ingredients in my truck (so the price will be good). Properly fermented or dry rotted material is time consuming to collect depending on what type of material it is. The shipping and billing will be worked out by next weekend. This week I am going to collect dry rotted wood [saguaro skeleton root chunks, paddle cactus skeleton & trunk, mesquite and palo verde.], dried cactus blossoms [paddle cactus, cholla, saguaro]. Dried leaves, underbrush debris, and weed stalks [fiddleneck, burr sage, mesquite, palo verde]. I haven't started experimenting with creosote for captive specimens so I am not going to be shipping it yet (I have seen O. ornatus eating it in the wild and I think it might be the magic ingredient but I'll experiment with my colony first). I will also be experimenting with termite sawdust and organic wild compost from dead stumps.

PM me if you are interested. I'll post some pics of my O. ornatus devouring dry rotted saguaro root. They have made swiss cheese out of it and climb in and out

Note to moderators: Sales wasn't the original intent of this post. I will go to the sales forum and create a proper add for this and post prices, and create a proper review. Please do not move this post. This post is for documentation of my experiment.