Ordering From Outside the US

viper69 · Nov 20, 2016

sschind said:
In one post in another thread it was said that all one needed to be able to legally import animals into the US was an import license. No mention was made about inspections and proper ports of entry.

If you are referencing Kodi's thread, your above statement is misleading.

See my post here, #4. http://arachnoboards.com/threads/importing-to-the-us.287009/#post-2554639

Rittdk01 · Nov 20, 2016

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:
For those who are importing and exporting illegally please send me a post card once you are caught and in a jail cell or prison cell, I be more than happy to reply back with my own post card.

Good luck ordering illegally for those who are already ordered or ordering.

calm, breathe.

Rittdk01 · Nov 20, 2016

Im pretty sure even sending tarantulas through the mail in the USA is technically illegal. just saying

Tony1618 · Nov 20, 2016

For everyone who has helped me understand better: I greatly appreciate all of your words and the great resources! One of the inspection ports is literally 10 minutes away from my door, so if it was merely a matter of paying $100 for a license then I would be all for it. Seems that we have somehow made it more difficult to get a tarantula than a gun in this country.

chanda · Nov 20, 2016

Tony1618 said:
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

I get it. Totally not trying to do anything wrong or I would not be asking questions, so I appreciate the desire to push me in the right direction. Not only is it an issue of species availability, but it is also price. I'm watching resellers purchase from Europe, raise prices anywhere from 50%-300%, and are inflating the economy. That's not cool. As a responsible business person who values their dollar, I put in the time and the research to not be juiced. A balfouri purchased in Europe for $15-$30 is being resold in the US for $60-$100 (.5'-1.5'). I think a false economy is the real problem. Someone like me asking the questions that I am is not for the purposes of dealing with anyone shady or having anything to do with brown boxing. It is simply my desire to circumvent an economy where resellers try to take a beloved hobby and use that love to empty our pockets by over-inflating prices. We all compare prices with many goods and services everyday. No one would pay $25 for a dozen eggs. I want to pay $15-$30 for a balfouri. lol

Yes, the prices are increased by the importer - but you also have to consider that the person importing the spiders isn't just paying $15-$30 for the spider. They are also paying the shipping from overseas, the appropriate import permits and licenses (which, as I understand it, are quite expensive), and covering for other overhead costs including their retail space (if they have any), feeding and caring for inventory, and making up for the unavoidable losses due to DOA or other losses of stock. Not only that, but you have to remember that they are doing this to earn a living. While I'm sure they also enjoy doing things that benefit the hobby overall, selling tarantulas is their job - and if they didn't mark up their inventory, they would not make any money and would quickly be out of business.
Basic economics dictate that prices are driven by supply and demand - so if a species is plentiful in Europe - either because they are more easily able to import them from their native country or because more people are successfully breeding them - the prices will be substantially lower. If that same species is more scarce in the U.S - whether it's because of more restrictive import laws or it isn't being widely bred - then the prices will be higher, and as long as people are willing to pay those higher prices, they will remain that way. What businessman would willingly charge less than "market value" for his inventory, if he can get full value? Yes, the prices are higher here for some species - but it's not so much nefarious price gouging as basic economic reality.

Chris LXXIX · Nov 20, 2016

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:
For those who are importing and exporting illegally please send me a post card once you are caught and in a jail cell or prison cell, I be more than happy to reply back with my own post card.

Muahahahah, like "Kiss of the Spider Woman" movie, just for remain stick to arachnids & jail :-s

Exoskeleton Invertebrates · Nov 20, 2016

Andrea82 said:
I understand your sentiment, it too has been mentioned before. But from what i heard, the importing fee and customs can add a staggering 1000 dollar to an order. Breeders need to eat...so they put that in the selling price as well.
@Exoskeleton Invertebrates
I didn't tag you to come racing in telling people to send a postcard from jail. I tagged you for info on how to import legitimately. The OP has no interest in smuggling, so let's not jump to conclusions too fast okey?

I understand that OP is not interested in smuggling that's why part of my post I clearly stated that you need an import and export license if you wish to receive or ship out of the country legally.

My other comments is just pure sarcasm, even though there are a few that have and are ordering illegally.

Exoskeleton Invertebrates · Nov 20, 2016

Rittdk01 said:
calm, breathe.

I can't I'm hyperventilating.

Walker253 · Nov 20, 2016

Rittdk01 said:
Im pretty sure even sending tarantulas through the mail in the USA is technically illegal. just saying

It is illegal, but smuggling wildlife is considered more much serious of an offense than a tarantula in the mail. US Customs and Fish & Wildlife are considered law enforcement. Dealing with them on a regular basis, they are a pain in the ass. I work for an airline in the air freight division. These guys would like nothing better that to bust you and make you pay. USPS inspectors are much more mellow and aren't law enforcement. On the most egregious offenses, one might get a fine. More often then not, it's a letter of reprimand. I know a little more than I can write, as I am bound to "need to know" rules.
Working at an airport, a smuggling conviction would disqualify me from even working there. That would be 27 years down the drain. Looking at the big picture, what indirect effect would a conviction have on your life if it were to occur? Not busting your balls, just furthering conversation.

Vanessa · Nov 20, 2016

Penalties are being increased by the day on the illegal wildlife trade because of poaching and wild populations being decimated and enforcement has become far more important in recent years. Customs isn't going to care if they came from a breeder or not - it is still a high priority for them and the authorities might even decide to make an example of you if you're caught. It is very high profile right now with what is going on with the illegal wildlife trade all over the world. Having something like that on your record could carry negative consequences for you for your entire life and could even result in bans being put in place.
The risks far outweigh any benefits - for you or the animals.

Jeff23 · Nov 21, 2016

Whether it is just a fine like a speeding ticket, huge fine, jail time, public embarrassment, and/or loss of a job, the stress of doing this just to save a few dollars makes no sense at all. The person who rolls the dice has no idea where they are taking their life just to have something that isn't even a necessity. This hobby is suppose to be a pleasure not the opposite.

Jake94 · Nov 21, 2016

So here's a somewhat different reply-

I'm really new to the hobby, > 1 year so far. My first inline order was from someone in another country, which I did not know was illegal or stupid as the time (it is). Shortly after placing the order and confirming details I was talking with another boards guy, setting up an order for some of his custom enclosures. He told me that what I had done was illegal, which was very stressful. Then the spiders came and they were all DOA, and I cried. I had paid for LAG, and the seller agreed to resend. I tried taking him into a refund since I now knew the legality issues, but he didn't want to do that obviously, and I didn't want to just throw money away. So the second batch of spiders eventually came, and everything worked out, but overall was a stressful, dangerous experience which I haven't considered doing again because it's not worth it. Everything worked out fine, yes, but it didn't easily could have not.

Rittdk01 · Nov 22, 2016

^^^^I didn't know it was illegal either. I bet a large % of "smugglers" are just collectors like you that don't know. Now if you have all the facts and continue to do it, that's just dumb. Are all wc species that are native outside the U.S. Smuggled?

cold blood · Nov 22, 2016

Rittdk01 said:
^^^^I didn't know it was illegal either. I bet a large % of "smugglers" are just collectors like you that don't know. Now if you have all the facts and continue to do it, that's just dumb. Are all wc species that are native outside the U.S. Smuggled?

WC doesn't matter, international borders do. Its just as Illegal to buy WC spiders as ones captive born from another country.

BobBarley · Nov 22, 2016

Rittdk01 said:
Are all wc species that are native outside the U.S. Smuggled?

No, there are perfectly legal ways to get them. It's just a long process to export and import.

Jeff23 · Nov 23, 2016

Rittdk01 said:
^^^^I didn't know it was illegal either. I bet a large % of "smugglers" are just collectors like you that don't know. Now if you have all the facts and continue to do it, that's just dumb. Are all wc species that are native outside the U.S. Smuggled?

I don't know all the facts but it seems like to me that any WC species from the countries that no longer allow exports would have to be illegal. It seems like this is the case for many of the species in South America. Of course in these cases the seller probably wouldn't tell you it is WC.

EDIT* And it would probably be hard for federal agents to know they are WC unless the criminal is caught trying to take them out of the country.

Andrea82 · Nov 23, 2016

Rittdk01 said:
Im pretty sure even sending tarantulas through the mail in the USA is technically illegal. just saying

I thought it was only illegal with usps, and fed ex was legal?

Chris LXXIX · Nov 23, 2016

Andrea82 said:
I thought it was only illegal with usps, and fed ex was legal?

No. If you ask to FedEx fellas if you can ship T's with them the answer will be "no". The difference between USPS and FedEx is that USPS is a pure U.S 'Uncle Sam' son, therefore enters all that federal issues, you know

while FedEx is a private company, therefore breaking their rulez <-- please note the "z" -- is less serious on that sense.

A thing that I consider worth to clarify is that, no matter U.S or Europe, actually shipping T's with 'national' mails or private couriers is technically not allowed by their rulez <-- "z" again --

Even Royal Mail, by far IMO one of the best, fast, cheap and 'soft' (in the good sense, I mean) when rules are concerned, doesn't allow arachnids. Even if they are full aware of that and just "meh"

I have yet to find a normal mail or a private courier that allow the shipping of venomous animals in 'pure light of the day'. Not counting on this Delta Dash and such, of course.

Andrea82 · Nov 23, 2016

Chris LXXIX said:
No. If you ask to FedEx fellas if you can ship T's with them the answer will be "no". The difference between USPS and FedEx is that USPS is a pure U.S 'Uncle Sam' son, therefore enters all that federal issues, you know while FedEx is a private company, therefore breaking their rulez <-- please note the "z" -- is less serious on that sense.

A thing that I consider worth to clarify is that, no matter U.S or Europe, actually shipping T's with 'national' mails or private couriers is technically not allowed by their rulez <-- "z" again --

Even Royal Mail, by far IMO one of the best, fast, cheap and 'soft' (in the good sense, I mean) when rules are concerned, doesn't allow arachnids. Even if they are full aware of that and just "meh"

I have yet to find a normal mail or a private courier that allow the shipping of venomous animals in 'pure light of the day'. Not counting on this Delta Dash and such, of course.

Sorry, i meant USPS and FED EX in the US. It is not allowed to send animals in the mail in most of europe without a license. At least, in the Netherlands. I've seen lots of unboxing videos in the UK though.

Chris LXXIX · Nov 23, 2016

Andrea82 said:
Sorry, i meant USPS and FED EX in the US. It is not allowed to send animals in the mail in most of europe without a license. At least, in the Netherlands. I've seen lots of unboxing videos in the UK though.

As far as I know even in the U.S you can't ship T's with FedEx, even if 99,99% of the time that's the carrier used, nothing happens, and I suppose that they are aware of that

- USPS is U.S only btw, it's the U.S.A historical, official mail service just like here in Italy 'Poste Italiane' or 'Royal Mail' in UK etc

Ordering From Outside the US

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