Ordering From Outside the US

Tony1618

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Oct 5, 2016
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I've found the species available in the US to be limited in some cases. I am a pretty savvy researcher and have found different overseas resources where a wider selection is available.

What are your experiences with ordering from outside of the US, more specifically European countries? Are there any restrictions?

Most seem willing to ship to the US, but my concern is with the legalities of the package entering the country. Any order I were to place would be for the purposes of my personal collection and not large enough to be considered anything more.

Thanks!
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
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It doesn't matter, man, advocating the 'good faith' or 'personal collection' etc wouldn't help. Because from the little I know about if you lack all the regular permits/licence and that hell of bureaucrecy stuff, whatever you will order -- arachnids, not arachnids, species, size, their number etc -- if spotted, will fall under the 'brown boxing' issue. And you don't want that.

Sure, they ship, but do you think that someone from the U.S department of something will knock some door in Poland, Hungary etc? Pfff, for instance, I can ship to you in the U.S, using a fake name/address for that matter on "mine part" and see if Uncle Sam will pinpoint me here in Italy, lol, if U.S custom spot the parcel ;-)

Buy from U.S breeders/sellers and don't risk I say.
 

chanda

Arachnoking
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I don't know all the legalities, but I'm sure you need special permits to import pretty much any living organisms. The alternative is sneaking them in in unmarked boxes, but if you get caught the animals will be confiscated and most likely destroyed and you would be facing a fine - and running the risk of having the rest of your collection examined closely and possibly also confiscated if you can't prove that all animals were legally obtained. If there is something you particularly want but can't find here, you might try contacting one of your local tarantula dealers (or, if you don't have anyone local, one of the online dealers) who do have the necessary import licenses and permits and see if they can get it for you. It might even end up being a bit cheaper in the long run if they bring it in as part of a larger order with combined shipping and possible volume discounts.
 
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Moonohol

Two Legged Freak
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Aug 8, 2016
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115
It doesn't matter, man, advocating the 'good faith' or 'personal collection' etc wouldn't help. Because from the little I know about if you lack all the regular permits/licence and that hell of bureaucrecy stuff, whatever you will order -- arachnids, not arachnids, species, size, their number etc -- if spotted, will fall under the 'brown boxing' issue. And you don't want that.

Sure, they ship, but do you think that someone from the U.S department of something will knock some door in Poland, Hungary etc? Pfff, for instance, I can ship to you in the U.S, using a fake name/address for that matter on "mine part" and see if Uncle Sam will pinpoint me here in Italy, lol, if U.S custom spot the parcel ;-)

Buy from U.S breeders/sellers and don't risk I say.
Also, if you brown box tarantulas that aren't readily available in the US, good luck explaining that to the members here without getting (rightfully) shunned and harassed for it. Not worth it, at all.
 

Andrea82

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Jan 12, 2016
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This topic has been raised before. Extensive permits and custom fees are needed to import tarantula(any animal) into the US. Do not fall for the trap of acquiring T's without all the legal forms. There are some Europeans who will sell you T's, saying there are no permits required. They are wrong. @Exoskeleton Invertebrates and @viper69 have the info, I think, of what is required.
 

Tony1618

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Oct 5, 2016
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I have zero interest in "brown boxing" anything, expanding anything to anyone, or concerning myself with overall tarantula politics. I just want to order a few T's that I cannot find here. The source of the T's are two reputable breeders in Poland, which I've seen their stock reposted here. It seems many people have ordered from them. I'm just curious if small orders can be placed without permits. I've ordered cichlids from Asia before with no issue, so the concern is tarantula specific and does not seem to extend to all animals. I just don't want my door being kicked in over 5-10 captive bred tarantulas. If anyone has more specific information on their personal experiences , it would be greatly appreciated.
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
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There's, of course, people living in the U.S that had bought from Europeans online shops in the past. Including someone that, recently (he even posted the stuff, with tracking and everything, ah ah :banghead:) started a thread about, here. Just for add a bit of ignorance to the risk, as far as I remember (and my memory is pretty good) he didn't even ordered a rare (at least for the U.S market) Theraphosidae or else, but a couple of laughable cheap and available as hell ones like genus Psalmopoeus and Ceratogyrus :banghead: :banghead: He had more than one DOA, also.

Needless to say, always to consider that the parcel take a while for arrive (6 to 8 days, if you are unlucky maybe more) and DOA obviously is a "what?" even if the DOA concern, in such a case, will be the lesser thing to be worried about IMO.
 
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Andrea82

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Thank you, Andrea. I'll check it out.
Good starting point would be here, i think.
https://www.cbp.gov/document/guidance/pets-and-wildlife

Just a heads up, people are going to react strongly to this subject (already have). This is because there have been lots of problems and issues and hurt feelings around this topic, mainly because of brownboxing. One seller has been in trouble with the FBI in the past, and that has had a large rippling effect on the hobby in the us.
 

sschind

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
344
I have zero interest in "brown boxing" anything, expanding anything to anyone, or concerning myself with overall tarantula politics. I just want to order a few T's that I cannot find here. The source of the T's are two reputable breeders in Poland, which I've seen their stock reposted here. It seems many people have ordered from them. I'm just curious if small orders can be placed without permits. I've ordered cichlids from Asia before with no issue, so the concern is tarantula specific and does not seem to extend to all animals. I just don't want my door being kicked in over 5-10 captive bred tarantulas. If anyone has more specific information on their personal experiences , it would be greatly appreciated.

If you ordered cichlids before from Asia and there were no issues it is because you didn't get caught. If they were shipped directly from the seller to you then you broke the law. Not every package shipped fed ex or DHL or whatever carrier is used, will go through inspection and some, probably most, will inevitably slip through but if you are unlucky enough to be one of those caught there will be consequences. Animals legally imported into the US need to have the proper permits and documentation and need to go through a licensed importer.

People do it because they feel the risk is small vs the reward and a few probably are legitimately unaware of the facts but I'm guessing many are aware. I feel that most reputable people would be opposed to it. I've seen some of those reviews of overseas sellers by US buyers and my opinion of these people has gone down. You may get away with it but if word gets out your reputation may suffer even if there are no legal actions taken.

There are plenty of places where a savvy researcher would have been able to find this out.

The bottom line is its illegal but the choice is ultimately up to you just like everything else.
 

Tony1618

Arachnopeon
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Oct 5, 2016
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0
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

I get it. Totally not trying to do anything wrong or I would not be asking questions, so I appreciate the desire to push me in the right direction. Not only is it an issue of species availability, but it is also price. I'm watching resellers purchase from Europe, raise prices anywhere from 50%-300%, and are inflating the economy. That's not cool. As a responsible business person who values their dollar, I put in the time and the research to not be juiced. A balfouri purchased in Europe for $15-$30 is being resold in the US for $60-$100 (.5'-1.5'). I think a false economy is the real problem. Someone like me asking the questions that I am is not for the purposes of dealing with anyone shady or having anything to do with brown boxing. It is simply my desire to circumvent an economy where resellers try to take a beloved hobby and use that love to empty our pockets by over-inflating prices. We all compare prices with many goods and services everyday. No one would pay $25 for a dozen eggs. I want to pay $15-$30 for a balfouri. lol
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
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Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

I get it. Totally not trying to do anything wrong or I would not be asking questions, so I appreciate the desire to push me in the right direction. Not only is it an issue of species availability, but it is also price. I'm watching resellers purchase from Europe, raise prices anywhere from 50%-300%, and are inflating the economy. That's not cool. As a responsible business person who values their dollar, I put in the time and the research to not be juiced. A balfouri purchased in Europe for $15-$30 is being resold in the US for $60-$100 (.5'-1.5'). I think a false economy is the real problem. Someone like me asking the questions that I am is not for the purposes of dealing with anyone shady or having anything to do with brown boxing. It is simply my desire to circumvent an economy where resellers try to take a beloved hobby and use that love to empty our pockets by over-inflating prices. We all compare prices with many goods and services everyday. No one would pay $25 for a dozen eggs. I want to pay $15-$30 for a balfouri. lol
I completely understand your point of view about prices. I can have a 0.1 (sexed by me via exuvia I.D) M.balfouri for less than $40.

U.S prices are, to me, in general pure madness. But of course to 'brown boxing' (not saying that you want, don't get me wrong. You only asked and that's legit) isn't the answer/solution.
 

sschind

Arachnobaron
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May 27, 2005
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344
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

I get it. Totally not trying to do anything wrong or I would not be asking questions, so I appreciate the desire to push me in the right direction. Not only is it an issue of species availability, but it is also price. I'm watching resellers purchase from Europe, raise prices anywhere from 50%-300%, and are inflating the economy. That's not cool. As a responsible business person who values their dollar, I put in the time and the research to not be juiced. A balfouri purchased in Europe for $15-$30 is being resold in the US for $60-$100 (.5'-1.5'). I think a false economy is the real problem. Someone like me asking the questions that I am is not for the purposes of dealing with anyone shady or having anything to do with brown boxing. It is simply my desire to circumvent an economy where resellers try to take a beloved hobby and use that love to empty our pockets by over-inflating prices. We all compare prices with many goods and services everyday. No one would pay $25 for a dozen eggs. I want to pay $15-$30 for a balfouri. lol
I understand but you have to understand that the person in the US selling that balfouri most likely did not pay $15-$30 bucks for it when all the legal permits, fees and requirements are added in. we would all like to get everything at the cheapest price possible and if there is a legal and ethical way to do it then fine. If not we have to determine if the markup we have to pay to someone who has done everything needed to make it legal is acceptable or not.

I may have come off a little harsh in my first post and I'm sorry for that. A lot of the reason is so many of these threads may not be factually inaccurate but they can be very misleading. In one post in another thread it was said that all one needed to be able to legally import animals into the US was an import license. No mention was made about inspections and proper ports of entry. Another post said you do not need a license if you are importing for personal use but again no mention was made about inspections and ports of entry. These posts could very easily be interpreted as saying if its for personal use go ahead and contact the seller in Poland and have him fed ex you a box of spiders to your door, no problem. Or as long as you buy your license you can have them ship you anything you want. links to government pages are usually not very helpful because in general government information is not very helpful.

If the part about personal use is accurate you may very well be able to forego the license but it is my understanding that you still have to have the package shipped through a port of entry and have it inspected and that will cost money. I think that is all you were really asking and all that the vast majority of these types of posts are asking. "Can I order directly from the seller and have it legally shipped directly to me?" and everything I have read says no you can't. Shipments need to go through a designated port of entry and they have to be inspected. Once you pay for all that I'm guessing your $15-$30 balfouri will be much closer if not more than $60-$100.
 
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Jeff23

Arachnolord
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Jul 27, 2016
Messages
621
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

I get it. Totally not trying to do anything wrong or I would not be asking questions, so I appreciate the desire to push me in the right direction. Not only is it an issue of species availability, but it is also price. I'm watching resellers purchase from Europe, raise prices anywhere from 50%-300%, and are inflating the economy. That's not cool. As a responsible business person who values their dollar, I put in the time and the research to not be juiced. A balfouri purchased in Europe for $15-$30 is being resold in the US for $60-$100 (.5'-1.5'). I think a false economy is the real problem. Someone like me asking the questions that I am is not for the purposes of dealing with anyone shady or having anything to do with brown boxing. It is simply my desire to circumvent an economy where resellers try to take a beloved hobby and use that love to empty our pockets by over-inflating prices. We all compare prices with many goods and services everyday. No one would pay $25 for a dozen eggs. I want to pay $15-$30 for a balfouri. lol
Until the US gets a much larger customer base and thus additional sources for breeding and sales, the higher prices will persist here. The individuals who buy from Europe paid a lot of money for those permits and need to get their money back.

The best way to save money on T's is to get to locate individuals with positive reviews in this forum who sell from their own stock. They don't have a store front or expensive advertising so your bottom line will be a little less. This may seem scary since you are not dealing with a "real" business. But these individuals have a reputation at stake on this site so they will not run off with your money.

I am kind of in a quandary right now where most of the NW T's I want is rarely available or only available in Europe. So I have to work with someone where my price will probably be very negative to get what I want. There are a few OW T's that I am considering that are readily available.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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Jun 17, 2007
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For those who are importing and exporting illegally please send me a post card once you are caught and in a jail cell or prison cell, I be more than happy to reply back with my own post card.

There are a few members from out of the country who are selling their tarantulas for anyone who is interested. Good luck!

Ever since I've joined Facebook AB group I've had so many different members from different country who im now friends on Facebook with, and some of them already willing to sell me tarantulas and they have stated that they will send it regular postal. I have their statement in writing.

A simple answer to your question is if you don't have an import or export licenses than you cannot receive of ship tarantulas out of the USA. It's that simple!

Good luck ordering illegally for those who are already ordered or ordering.
 

Jeff23

Arachnolord
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Messages
621
For those who are importing and exporting illegally please send me a post card once you are caught and in a jail cell or prison cell, I be more than happy to reply back with my own post card.

There are a few members from out of the country who are selling their tarantulas for anyone who is interested. Good luck!

Ever since I've joined Facebook AB group I've had so many different members from different country who im now friends on Facebook with, and some of them already willing to sell me tarantulas and they have stated that they will send it regular postal. I have their statement in writing.

A simple answer to your question is if you don't have an import or export licenses than you cannot receive of ship tarantulas out of the USA. It's that simple!

Good luck ordering illegally for those who are already ordered or ordering.
The other part of the story on what you are describing is that you have no protection whatsoever when a problem occurs. If you do something through illegal means and you receive dead spiders (or no spiders at all) who are you gonna call? You are likely out of luck.
 

Andrea82

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Messages
3,610
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

I get it. Totally not trying to do anything wrong or I would not be asking questions, so I appreciate the desire to push me in the right direction. Not only is it an issue of species availability, but it is also price. I'm watching resellers purchase from Europe, raise prices anywhere from 50%-300%, and are inflating the economy. That's not cool. As a responsible business person who values their dollar, I put in the time and the research to not be juiced. A balfouri purchased in Europe for $15-$30 is being resold in the US for $60-$100 (.5'-1.5'). I think a false economy is the real problem. Someone like me asking the questions that I am is not for the purposes of dealing with anyone shady or having anything to do with brown boxing. It is simply my desire to circumvent an economy where resellers try to take a beloved hobby and use that love to empty our pockets by over-inflating prices. We all compare prices with many goods and services everyday. No one would pay $25 for a dozen eggs. I want to pay $15-$30 for a balfouri. lol
I understand your sentiment, it too has been mentioned before. But from what i heard, the importing fee and customs can add a staggering 1000 dollar to an order. Breeders need to eat...so they put that in the selling price as well.
@Exoskeleton Invertebrates
I didn't tag you to come racing in telling people to send a postcard from jail. I tagged you for info on how to import legitimately. The OP has no interest in smuggling, so let's not jump to conclusions too fast okey?
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
11,521
I've found the species available in the US to be limited in some cases. I am a pretty savvy researcher and have found different overseas resources where a wider selection is available.

What are your experiences with ordering from outside of the US, more specifically European countries? Are there any restrictions?

Most seem willing to ship to the US, but my concern is with the legalities of the package entering the country. Any order I were to place would be for the purposes of my personal collection and not large enough to be considered anything more.

Thanks!
It's not straightforward at all compared to buying within the USA.

Any international shipper that is willing to send to your doorstep just by providing your address is a red flag. Esp if they claim something like "oh I didn't know I needed to do anything on my end". If you hear that, they are either misinformed at best, or knowingly exporting illegally at worst.

Here's a good link

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/international-shippers-to-the-us-know-the-law.72801/
 
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