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Discussion in 'Tarantula Chat' started by Ratmosphere, Sep 25, 2015.
I would not consider P.murinus predictable.
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Why? They are an aggressive African species, so what is your question about them?
For any fast and aggressive animal to be considered predictable, one must have a lot of hands-on experience with it. A beginner would not have this kind of familiarity and thus wouldn't find P. murinus to be predictable.
I'm shocked to hear such an experienced keeper call P. murinus either predictable OR a good beginner species. I see this species as one of the all time worst beginner species...and probably the worst if you are only considering terrestrials.
Plenty of beginners have this species already, and because it's well known that they are super aggressive, and quick moving, makes them predictable. I'm not saying it's a good species to handle, or even a first tarantula. Be honest with yourselves here most of you guys saying it isn't a good beginner species had one when you were a beginner, and WoW, you survived. It's the one cool aggressive, and inexpensive species a beginner can have in their collection that teaches them to respect an aggressive tarantula. The fact is, it's not me saying it's a good beginner species, it's the reality of it being one because so many beginners have these already, and their doing fine with them. What defines a good beginner species for me also, is the captive requiments of a species, which these are very hardy. I believe most species could be good for beginners really, with some proper research. Plus, there are different reasons for people to want tarantulas. Some people are looking for calm species, and wouldn't be up for something like P. murinus, while others don't mind keeping P. murinus because their not interested in handling them. I had my first P. murinus when I was 17, and back then just having a tarantula at all meant you weren't really sane, but I loved keeping that spider, and there wasn't anybody telling me, "That's not a good beginner species", and I had less experience than these kids now do. I won't lie though, they will bite you if you give them the chance, but so can any species, but atleast you can "predict" that with P. murinus.
---------- Post added 10-11-2015 at 01:54 AM ----------
I can understand how people are saying, "I'm shocked he would suggest that!" But the thead is titled OPINION, and that's mine, even if it isn't "politcally correct".
When I bought my first motorcycle, I had to learn how to ride it, despite people saying, "You'll kill yourself" and "Motorcycles are dangerous!" If I listen to everybody, I wouldn't have taken it out of the garage.
*AHEM!blargh* (makes throat clearing noise, then chokes a bit... attempts to keep the thread on topic...)
When I was first researching tarantulas, I came across Hapalopus sp. Colombia "Large" and "Small" fairly early on. I added them to my list of potentials, due to their striking colouration and dwarf size. It was after reading a bit about them that I found out how fast they are. I like the opinion that they are a "wolf spider with an orange and black paint job".
I still find wolf spiders a bit intimidating. Mostly from a speediness standpoint. I'd be afraid that my "almost quick" reflexes would have me closing a lid on them, or blinking through an escape. I'm trying to get used to basic true spiders, as they are far more abundant than H. sp. Colombia around me.
Honest, I waited over a decade before I got my first OBT, simply BECAUSE I did the research.
You are right, its your opinion, which I didn't chastise you for in any way, I merely said I was surprised, you are every bit as entitled to your opinion as I am.:smile:
Going in the direction of your chosen comparison....Was your first very first motorcycle a hopped up busa? There are lots of cycles that would be perfectly appropriate for even a kid to begin on, the most powerful ones however, are generally not good choices, right? We see it all the time with cars, lots of people get inappropriate cars as their first, things like v-8 mustangs and Camaros at 16 or 17, and some (many) crash or simply drive way too fast, most survive and many never actually crash, and a rare few never get into trouble with tickets or accidents, but it doesn't change the fact that their starter vehicle was a very poor first choice for almost every new driver.
I chose the large Pumpkin Patch tarantula. :biggrin:
My suspect girl is about 2.5" currently and while fast, she's also established a burrow in which she resides mostly. I only see her out at night sometimes and never had her bolt ever. She's pretty relaxed, although their behavior reminds me of Acanthoscurria spp. - with more coloration and speed! Good luck raising your new tarantula.
Thank you so much! I'm very excited to watch it grow.
Yes, but if I had known how fast they were, I would have waited. Mine was very intimidating to work with at first and I was nervous when it came time to work on its enclosure. I wish I had waited, and I would not recommend it as a good beginner species. But I am not the type to try and police what others do, if they feel ready, that is for them to decide. Hope that makes sense.
Ratmosphere, enjoy! Mine grew very fast, soon yours will be so beautiful. Just always be ready, haha.
This is a good analogy. I've never thought of it like that. While I disagree with much of "the ladder" system. This makes sense to me.
Yeah, as much as this statement might work for alot of people, the fact is, that when I was 17 I had a 1974 LT Camero, never wrecked it, and when I was 18 I had a Yamaha 750 Maxim, ended up selling it. So as much as this may work for the general population, the general population doesn't keep spiders.
---------- Post added 10-22-2015 at 01:03 PM ----------
Also, Let me mention that When I was refering to the motorcycle thing, I was mainly refering to the power of the bike, NOT the dangers of other drivers, which is a different spin on what I meant. It's one thing to be able to handle your bike, and another to be able to handle it on the road with other drivers. I mainly was taking about the power of the bike, but anybody that rides, knows it's more that just the bike itself. My example may not have gotten my point across, but my point is, wether people want spiders like P. murinus to be advanced species or not, the fact of life is, they are being kept by more beginners than anyone. My question is, are you worried about the spider being in jepardy, or the owner? With this species the spider usually does well. So when people say A. versicolor is a good beginner species, how many of them die? Do you really want me to tell you the truth?
Both. We have seen OBTs that had become more than new owners can deal with and basically neglect them, often to death. There have been plenty of people that have picked up an OBT from an owner that couldn't deal and they're generally in horrible conditions be the time they are gotten rid of...being as tough as the species is, most don't actually die, but I'm sure many do as they are left to die out of fear.
Then there's the new keeper, not being experienced IMO puts them in a position to be more likely to make an error that results in a bite. Also more experience means a better understanding of the animal, making them easy to deal with and predict....without experience they can be viewed as very unpredictable.
As for the versi, I agree 100% that avics are not the best or even a good beginner species, both poec and I (and many others) have repeatedly expressed that to numerous individuals....I hate to see them needlessly die because of husbandry confusion or misconceptions. They're a bad beginner species however, for very different reasons. Like you eluded to, waaaay too many die in the hands of new owners.
I got you with the bike thing, I didn't even bring up the dangers of other drivers Like I said, a select few will drive high powered vehicles at a young age without issue, but most don't.
Ok, first on the OBT thing. I sell the crap out of them, and NEVER has anybody complained they can't handle them. They understand the point of being aggressive, but they deal with it. I think political correctness, and people being a bunch of wimps, plays a big role. These are tarantulas, and not hamsters, so lets understand that. I think basically that people on Arachnoboards care more about their count of posts and fan favor than really telling people how it is. I don't post much, cause I don't have time, but this website has become a bitter place to come and talk about arachnids. People are afraid to say whats on their mind. I don't have that problem. You believe who you want in this thread, but all I can say is get yourself an OBT, you can handle it.
Interestingly, at birth there's 3 percentage points more males born. By age 21, the sex ratio is equal. Whether it's teenage boys smashing their cars, or pushing their luck with saber tooth cats, long ago nature has adapted to a certain number of adolescent boys never making it to maturity because of reckless behavior and poor judgment. Most survive more or less in one piece, some unlucky ones don't. That's our species.
Yeah, I guess those unlucky ones bought OBTs and died.
Good thing, too. I'd take an OBT over a hamster any day!
Congrats on the pumpkin patch. I bought 2 of them about a year ago now and I will never regret that purchase. One matured a few months ago, he has beautiful little hooks. I'm guessing the other one must be female, and also close to maturity.
things to note about this species from a relatively new spider keeper;
They are fast.
They are very intelligent, as spiders go and as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, they can anticipate you're movements and will try to bolt out of the enclosure if you leave opportunity.
They are HUNGRY!!!
They are fast....
They are kind of skittish, although my suspect female has never used a burrow and stays out in the open for the most part, the male stays in the burrow always.
They are fast.
Tips for dealing with them during maintenance, feedings and rehousing:
when you start to do anything with your pumpkin patch, First thing's first, visually locate it if possible. make sure it's not at the top of the enclosure near where you will be opening it. Try to gauge it's mood. Is it racing around the perimeter of the enclosure in laps? is it running up the walls, over the ceiling of the enclosure and back down? is it in a threat posture before you even start to open the lid? If so, put the cage back on the shelf and leave it alone for a while. Never, ever put your hand inside the enclosure. Use your feeder tongs to handle the water dish, pick up boluses and rearrange "furniture" if you have any if necessary. Use a syringe to fill the water bowl. Most of all, enjoy it! They are a really beautiful species and their smaller size is endearing.
Most of this is pretty much standard basics for dealing with any species though honestly. You really just have to be more aware of it's mood and general attitude then, say, a Grammostola porter.
As for the OBT discussion that keeps trying to hi-jack this thread. I got an OBT as a surprise freebie with an order of spiders I got around Halloween 2014. I was NOT happy of having had it sent with my other spiders as I did not feel ready or comfortable having one yet. So far, it's gone well, thankfully although I don't really like it. I care for it as well as my others but it's definitely not my favorite. I certainly won't be getting another one any time soon, or ever really. It's not that I'm afraid of it, though it does make me nervous. It's definitely not a good spider for beginners.
Post count is nothing more than an indicator of involvement....whether one cares about the count or not, it moves without the users control. Just because one has a high post count is in no way an indicator that the user gives 2 oop:s about it.
I've seen nothing bitter in this thread, just people talking about arachnids as usual. :smile: