Opinion piece: Keeping Australian Natives as pets is a good idea

[Zervoid]

Read this opinion piece on how keeping Australian natives as pets here in Australia and overseas might be a good thing and save many species here from extinction. I also think if we allowed people overseas to legally own our animals it would stop many instances of wildlife smuggling. It's an interesting thought.

http://www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2015/03/19/4200500.htm

 

[pitbulllady]

I agree, and have always believed the same thing. Australia prohibits exports of native species and in many instances, won't let Australian citizens keep such animals, but at the same time, they billions to KILL many of those same animals as agricultural pests! I can't get a Dingo imported into the US, and have it really be mine. Even if the government of Australia approves it, the paperwork and shipping costs alone are prohibitive, and it will never actually belong to me. It will still be property of the Australian government, and they, not I, determine what is best for the dog or what I can or cannot do with it. Any offspring it produces are theirs, too, and I'm forbidden to sell them or give them away, so if I breed the dog, I'm stuck with the puppies. If the Australian government decides it wants the dog back on Australian soil, there's nothing I can do about it. If they decide that the dog should be put down, I have to go along with that, too, or if they find someone else in the US that they'd rather have the dog, I have to comply with that. And yet, any farmer or rancher can kill as many Dingoes as they want in Australia and some of the states still pay a bounty on Dingo scalps.

 

[The Snark]

Lacking the wisdom of Solomon.... I fervently hope this thread gets a lot of attention and informed input.

From the curators at the museum in Darwin, and from various officials related to the government of Aus. it was expressed to me that if they opened their borders to the animal trade the local populations of the more exotic and endangered animals would quickly be facing extinction.

At the same time the (please excuse me for prejudiced biased negative profiling here) the 'outback mentality' I have personally witnessed in the Northern Territory and Queensland would be among the very last group of people I would choose to protect endangered animals. A rough analogy would be having your average on the ground rifle toting US Army grunts doing social services and PR work in third world countries as is the norm in America so often.

This positively elitist attitude among the Australian science community connected to the government is virtually analogous of xenophobia. "We know everything and are never wrong." Or at least, we certainly know our animals better than you. While at the same time... let me give you a perfect example: Queensland. A party where nearly all the guests got 'pissed', extremely drunk. A full moon. One woman decided to go for a swim in an estuary. Read, croc bait. She was taken by a croc. The locals, in opposition to the laws I must state, went on a croc hunting binge and slaughtered a few. The woman could not have presented a more enticing meal and the response from the locals was well into mob rule mentality. These are the trusted people, or at the least the ones the Aus Gov. turns a blind eye to, when it comes to animal conservation.

Massive sturdy 'roo bars' adorn the front of virtually all outback vehicles, and on the heavy trucks, the road trains, bull bars, so you can smash the kangaroo or water buffalo without damaging your vehicle. The vehicle I owned while in Aus had them. How is this better than controlled permission for other countries to admit those animals?

Steve Irwin and Australia Zoo was an anomaly. Many local ranchers bitterly resented Mr. Irwin's conservation efforts, and still do to this day. It was a rarity that those efforts received assistance from the locals.

So what the hell is the answer? Would it be possible to get enough valid input on this thread so that selected posts could be presented to the Aus Government? Sensible posts from capable knowledgeable animal keepers? This is my hope.

 

[Scorpling]

I agree so much with this. It would end smuggling and help endangered species get a foothold. I think the best bet would be for the Australian government to allow people to start breeding and exporting them. It would be a lucrative business plus a creative way to save species from extinction. Plus, how awesome would it be to have a dingo?!

 

[The Snark]

...Plus, how awesome would it be to have a dingo?!

Sorry, I have to comment on that. The perfect test for animal keepers: have them try to raise a small group of dingos. You would be hard pressed to find another animal on the planet more independent, wayward, unpredictable, savage, flighty and nerve wracking. Only top flight expert animal handlers with Kevlar body armor need apply.

 

[truecreature]

I'd be for that all the way, if only to be able to get a Tiliqua rugosa pair that doesn't cost as much as my car

 

[Zervoid]

Interesting comments here. But when you consider how our government reacted to Johnny Depps dogs pistol and boo you can see that Australia is never going to be able to manage it's wildlife in a level headed way, instead we always opt for the most extreme option.

I can't agree that a crocodile or kangaroo is more important than a human life, we have those bars to stop people being killed by roo strikes, as even small wallabies impacting a car can do massive damage and kill people. I'm all for animal conservation, but not at the expense of people.

But like many here I am tired of the knee jerk reactions whenever someone is killed or injured by for say a crocodile or shark. Usually the person knows the area they are in has predators, and are surprised when they are attacked. For instance surfers will swim far out, and even after a shark attack will say they will go surfing the next day. And how does the government respond? It catches and culls sharks, despite wide spread international opposition. Which makes me believe the government will never take owning natives in captivity as pets seriously.

I'm tired of always hearing about this or that animal being close to extinction and the government spending millions on setting up programs to stop animals from going extinct, it's time to let hobbyists and people interested in keeping these animals overseas the chance to pick up the slack and take over, cause the taxpayer here is tired of having money go to building fences to nowhere when our infrastructure, especially our roads outside of major cities, are never upgraded or kept safe.

Just last night they had a news story about yet another one of these programs where we do something as stupid as spend millions building a fence around habitat to house a small population of animals with the silly name woylie, that nobody has ever heard of before or will ever see in the wild. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-...ased-in-mount-gibson-fenced-enclosure/6752776

If they allowed people to keep these animals in captivity, you would have various captive populations existing all around the world and the tax payers wouldn't be spending millions on programs to build fences that are costly to maintain and that may not be 100% effective anyway.

It's clear the government here is incapable of managing our wildlife. I can't see the harm in allowing animals to be kept in captivity. Although I do understand the cruelty argument, in that many of these captive animals will probably be held in cruel conditions, I guess its better than seeing them go extinct altogether.

I don't care what happens- just make the stories about animals going extinct all the time stop! Cause they are driving me mad lol.

 

[The Snark]

I can't agree that a crocodile or kangaroo is more important than a human life, we have those bars to stop people being killed by roo strikes, as even small wallabies impacting a car can do massive damage and kill people. I'm all for animal conservation, but not at the expense of people.

Bollocks. There are animals on roadways problems the world over. One of my jobs as a cop was clearing stray horses and cattle from the roads. Either Aus drivers are, for some obscure reason, less capable than drivers from any other country in braking and steering their vehicles or the roo bars are there so the driver can splatter them over the scenery with impunity.

Much or your arguement went up in smoke with that tirade. $400,000 for a toad crossing under Hwy 580 out by Berkely, Calif!! No, dear sir, wetlands preservation which relies upon the entire chain of animals to maintain a healthy ecosystem. Keeping selective pets alone is not conservation and more often than not, just a salve to ease the collective consciences of the uncaring or irresponsible. Expensive fences? Check out our horse and mule exclusion fences that allow the deer to range freely.

 

[pitbulllady]

Sorry, I have to comment on that. The perfect test for animal keepers: have them try to raise a small group of dingos. You would be hard pressed to find another animal on the planet more independent, wayward, unpredictable, savage, flighty and nerve wracking. Only top flight expert animal handlers with Kevlar body armor need apply.

Basically they are just smaller versions of Akitas, for real, lol. I kept Akitas before my experiences with the handful of purebred Dingoes in the US, all of which are extremely inbred because they-or rather, their ancestors- were imported to the US before the Australian government decided that Dingoes were protected native animals and any further export was prohibited. Compared to Akitas, Dingoes are a breeze, if for no other reason that being half the size. They are extremely affectionate dogs with familiar people, and very aloof with everyone else, typical Asian primitive dog behavior that is mirrored throughout that entire family of canines. They are not pack animals, except in a very loose sense, and no doubt this played a role in the development of the Akita as a fighting dog, one that regarded all other dogs as targets of destruction. I have never, ever been bitten or threatened by any Dingo I've been around. They were once domesticated animals, unlike wolves, so they re-domesticate quite well, provided that you don't go into it with expectations that you're getting Lassie or Rin-Tin-Tin, a dog that is going to obey your every command just because you said so. Like Akitas, Shibas, Chow, Korean Jindo, etc., the Dingo is almost as much a cat in terms of behavior as it is a dog. Owners have to be prepared for that and accepting of that, but it's not such a bad thing. The big thing is, they are worth protecting and saving. These dogs are unique, and possibly represent a species of canine which, when crossed with wolves, gave rise to all domesticated dogs. There are many people in other countries who are more than able and willing to conserve these ancient dogs through captive breeding, but that is nearly impossible. Australia says that they are "protected native wildlife", but spends 13 billion dollars each year to eradicate them! Same with cockatoos and many other native birds, which are despised by farmers almost as much as the Dingoes are. Farmers and sheep ranchers are allowed to kill Wedge-Tailed eagles, one of the largest birds of prey on the planet, but a zoo in the US cannot obtain a pair to breed because the eagles are "protected".

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Sorry, I have to comment on that. The perfect test for animal keepers: have them try to raise a small group of dingos. You would be hard pressed to find another animal on the planet more independent, wayward, unpredictable, savage, flighty and nerve wracking. Only top flight expert animal handlers with Kevlar body armor need apply.

I doubt Dingos could match Wolves. They are one of the best, independent, untamed, noble animals. The Wolf is a God, or a semi - God, for a lot of people and culture. From Native Americans (once) sacred lands to Mongolia (Börte Cino) to old great Europe etc

---------- Post added 09-07-2015 at 06:24 PM ----------

Interesting comments here. But when you consider how our government reacted to Johnny Depps dogs pistol and boo you can see that Australia is never going to be able to manage it's wildlife in a level headed way, instead we always opt for the most extreme option.

I can't agree that a crocodile or kangaroo is more important than a human life, we have those bars to stop people being killed by roo strikes, as even small wallabies impacting a car can do massive damage and kill people. I'm all for animal conservation, but not at the expense of people.

But like many here I am tired of the knee jerk reactions whenever someone is killed or injured by for say a crocodile or shark. Usually the person knows the area they are in has predators, and are surprised when they are attacked. For instance surfers will swim far out, and even after a shark attack will say they will go surfing the next day. And how does the government respond? It catches and culls sharks, despite wide spread international opposition. Which makes me believe the government will never take owning natives in captivity as pets seriously.

I'm tired of always hearing about this or that animal being close to extinction and the government spending millions on setting up programs to stop animals from going extinct, it's time to let hobbyists and people interested in keeping these animals overseas the chance to pick up the slack and take over, cause the taxpayer here is tired of having money go to building fences to nowhere when our infrastructure, especially our roads outside of major cities, are never upgraded or kept safe.

Just last night they had a news story about yet another one of these programs where we do something as stupid as spend millions building a fence around habitat to house a small population of animals with the silly name woylie, that nobody has ever heard of before or will ever see in the wild. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-...ased-in-mount-gibson-fenced-enclosure/6752776

If they allowed people to keep these animals in captivity, you would have various captive populations existing all around the world and the tax payers wouldn't be spending millions on programs to build fences that are costly to maintain and that may not be 100% effective anyway.

It's clear the government here is incapable of managing our wildlife. I can't see the harm in allowing animals to be kept in captivity. Although I do understand the cruelty argument, in that many of these captive animals will probably be held in cruel conditions, I guess its better than seeing them go extinct altogether.

I don't care what happens- just make the stories about animals going extinct all the time stop! Cause they are driving me mad lol.

Man i know it's OT a lot (sorry The Snark, but i can't resist, forgive me) but what can you tell me about "Kalkajaka" ? What there's inside, for you? It's just the common sensationalist, powered by the Internet, crap or there's really someting weird?
Damn i love those stories

 

[Zervoid]

Blah you bleeding heart conservationists. You grow up in the post war world never knowing true hardship in your western bubble, so take on these causes like animal conservation and blow them out of all proportion, and then when someone suggests we allow people to keep natives in captivity you turn around and say that will only work if every living thing in the ecological chain is saved for conservation to be a success. Give me a break. Thank god us Australians haven't reached the idiocy seen in conservation projects overseas. If you want to spend US $400,000.00 on a toad crossing, be my guests. But how you can do that when your country has MILLIONS of living and working poor is beyond my comprehension.

You have clearly never hit a Kangaroo- they are IMPOSSIBLE to steer away from due to their high maneuverability. Because our environment is so arid, grass tends to grow along roadsides where water condenses and collects, roos feed on this grass, when the cars come past and startle the roos they panic and jump off to safety, most of the time jumping straight into oncoming traffic. Hence the need for those bars.You can't honestly sit there and expect me to believe a Kangaroo's life is more important than a human life.

You know what? On second thoughts keep all our wildlife here, don't let anyone own it, let it stay wild, native and free from exploitation. If it goes extinct than so be it, the worlds not going to stop turning because something disappeared forever. We are not all having an apocalyptic meltdown because the dinosaurs are gone. Extinction is a fact of life, it's natural and normal, get used to it.

So because I am white nothing here can have any meaning or significance. Thanks. So typical. For a moment there I thought you were going to say something center or right, but as usual the left finds a way to dominate everything.

All I was trying to do was bring attention to a story that may lead to you people in the US being able to own our animals and inverts, as I know they are much desired in the hobby, how I found myself here arguing is beyond me. Why do you animal people have to always be so extreme when it comes to talking about animal conservation is beyond me. I give up.

 

[The Snark]

Honeybunch, I took a horse through my windshield (screen) once. They have this really amazing nifty super slick trick called defensive driving, only driving at a speed from which you can reasonably avoid an accident.

 

[Galapoheros]

“This positively elitist attitude among the Australian science community connected to the government is virtually analogous of xenophobia. "We know everything and are never wrong." Or at least, we certainly know our animals better than you.” That’s about the way it goes everywhere and in almost all egotistical professions, just the nature of people I guess. I’ve seen it from your point of view also Zervoid, when there doesn’t appear to be much going wrong, people will find something wrong. It doesn't matter where they are on the planet. If there is nothing wrong, they will create a problem so they can fix it. If they can finally find a small problem then they will exaggerate it. I’m convinced we have an innate drive to have a problem because in harder times we always did have a problem so it’s as though we have a place in our minds reserved for having a problem to solve. It’s like in the Simpson episode when Marge Simpson gets bored and so goes to poke baby Maggie Simpson while she is sleeping to make her cry so she can make her feel better haha. As to the poor in the US, it’s probably not what you think, what you’ve read and heard is probably a result of exaggerating a problem. When you read about it, it sounds horrible. But the poor in the US have shelters and government doles, welfare, gov housing they can hit. Many don’t do it because they don’t care enough, are mentally ill or are doing a lot of drugs. I’ve tried to help some of these people, many are fine where they are and it would take years to change the way they think. The way they think is how most of them ended up where they are. Many “poor” people here have a car, TV, food and a place to live but still qualify as poor. Give a homeless person here a place to stay and they often go back to the streets because something is wrong with their mind. Many you see on the streets don’t want to work, they are more comfortable sleeping under a bridge. Some are honest about it, holding up signs at street corners saying, “I need beer money!” I lived in some crack house rat holes trying to save money in my earlier days and I met some of these people. It didn’t take long for me to go recluse, lock my door, put black plastic over my windows and stop feeling sorry for them. The conservation movement is pushed by the UN, you ever looked into it? Go to the United Nations site and look up Agenda21 and Biodiversity. Some countries are on board more than others, the US “is” practically the UN, on board 100% and funding the UN the max it can, almost 25% with tiny funding from the other 190+ member states. So read the agenda there and you will be reading the US agenda, basically. Really look into it, where it all came from, and you will be sent down the rabbit hole. For example, look up Gro Harlem Bruntland’s involvement with the UN, the UN gives her credit for worldwide anti-smoking movement but, …who knew. We just see these trickle down gov subsidized anti-smoking ads and don’t think much about it. I’m not a smoker and not saying it’s a bad thing to discourage smoking, only saying these movements start somewhere. I just don't like the thought of being manipulated to move and think a certain way without knowing what the agenda is, happens all the time though.

 

[BobGrill]

Blah you bleeding heart conservationists. You grow up in the post war world never knowing true hardship in your western bubble, so take on these causes like animal conservation and blow them out of all proportion, and then when someone suggests we allow people to keep natives in captivity you turn around and say that will only work if every living thing in the ecological chain is saved for conservation to be a success. Give me a break. Thank god us Australians haven't reached the idiocy seen in conservation projects overseas. If you want to spend US $400,000.00 on a toad crossing, be my guests. But how you can do that when your country has MILLIONS of living and working poor is beyond my comprehension.

You have clearly never hit a Kangaroo- they are IMPOSSIBLE to steer away from due to their high maneuverability. Because our environment is so arid, grass tends to grow along roadsides where water condenses and collects, roos feed on this grass, when the cars come past and startle the roos they panic and jump off to safety, most of the time jumping straight into oncoming traffic. Hence the need for those bars.You can't honestly sit there and expect me to believe a Kangaroo's life is more important than a human life.

You know what? On second thoughts keep all our wildlife here, don't let anyone own it, let it stay wild, native and free from exploitation. If it goes extinct than so be it, the worlds not going to stop turning because something disappeared forever. We are not all having an apocalyptic meltdown because the dinosaurs are gone. Extinction is a fact of life, it's natural and normal, get used to it.

So because I am white nothing here can have any meaning or significance. Thanks. So typical. For a moment there I thought you were going to say something center or right, but as usual the left finds a way to dominate everything.

All I was trying to do was bring attention to a story that may lead to you people in the US being able to own our animals and inverts, as I know they are much desired in the hobby, how I found myself here arguing is beyond me. Why do you animal people have to always be so extreme when it comes to talking about animal conservation is beyond me. I give up.

"Kill!" That one word describes the mentality of the human race when it comes to our planet and its inhabitants. If it's not human, it has to die. There weren't humans alive to kill everything back when dinosaurs lived.

Anyway nice meeting you! Happy trails!

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[Scorpling]

Pu never implied I'd want a dingo as I have no idea how to take care of one but for real ithe idea of owning one is cool. Also lets stop the hateful and/or passive aggressive comments here

 

[The Snark]

I doubt Dingos could match Wolves. They are one of the best, independent, untamed, noble animals. The Wolf is a God, or a semi - God, for a lot of people and culture. From Native Americans (once) sacred lands to Mongolia (Börte Cino) to old great Europe etc

---------- Post added 09-07-2015 at 06:24 PM ----------



Man i know it's OT a lot (sorry The Snark, but i can't resist, forgive me) but what can you tell me about "Kalkajaka" ? What there's inside, for you? It's just the common sensationalist, powered by the Internet, crap or there's really someting weird?
Damn i love those stories

More OT. Small world. Mt. Kalkajaka is more or less in my cousins back yard. Google Cooktown, Cape Tribulation and Daintree national Park. On the map it's where the Mulligan Hwy leaves the coast and heads inland. Kalkajaka means Black Mountain in the Abo language. It is a sacred place to them.
Sort of makes me wonder if my cuz, a raging psycho conservationist, might have had a hand in the preserve efforts. He helped establish the boundaries of Daintree.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

More OT. Small world. Mt. Kalkajaka is more or less in my cousins back yard. Google Cooktown, Cape Tribulation and Daintree national Park. On the map it's where the Mulligan Hwy leaves the coast and heads inland. Kalkajaka means Black Mountain in the Abo language. It is a sacred place to them.
Sort of makes me wonder if my cuz, a raging psycho conservationist, might have had a hand in the preserve efforts. He helped establish the boundaries of Daintree.

Ok, but what can you tell me about the "Black" legends about those hills? People disappeared? All of that stuff, i mean. It's only an internet, created myth, or.. what's inside? Damn, i love those places and story about, like the Mongolian Death Worm

 

[The Snark]

Ok, but what can you tell me about the "Black" legends about those hills? People disappeared? All of that stuff, i mean. It's only an internet, created myth, or.. what's inside? Damn, i love those places and story about, like the Mongolian Death Worm

Sorry but no. As a native of America I have similar or same sentiments as the aborigines have about the place. Their business. Entirely their business. But, at the risk of sounding unobjective and cynical, the white peoples stories and fairy tales never take into account the real deal. As my tribes valley of ghosts, it's none of your damned business, wasichu. No offense intended.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Sorry but no. As a native of America I have similar or same sentiments as the aborigines have about the place. Their business. Entirely their business. But, at the risk of sounding unobjective and cynical, the white peoples stories and fairy tales never take into account the real deal. As my tribes valley of ghosts, it's none of your damned business, wasichu. No offense intended.

Ah ah, of course no offence. But have you Native American blood? Because, if not, you are a wasichu, bilagàana as well my man

 

[The Snark]

Lakota, mitawa kola. It's good to hear of the Aus Gov incorporating the Abo into the conservation efforts. Like their north American counterparts, they live between worlds and need their sense of purpose renewed or rekindled.