OMG maybe a first ever!!!

[cacoseraph]

BTW, almost all livestock is conceived this way. They no longer take the oxen to the cows, it's all done with srynges and pipes and the animals can't doge the process either.

that is one of my goals for tarantulas, actually. i need to do a LOT more studying before i can even begin to think about it, though!

 

[Talkenlate04]

that is one of my goals for tarantulas, actually. i need to do a LOT more studying before i can even begin to think about it, though!

That would be cool too. But would require you to sit and wait for the making of a sperm web, then you would have to draw it up into a syringe, and get it into the female in a short period of time.

Hey maybe we should figure out how long the sperm can live outside the T first. Anyone know that? I think that can be found out fairly easily.

 

[Frédérick]

that is one of my goals for tarantulas, actually. i need to do a LOT more studying before i can even begin to think about it, though!

apart from learning how to correctly pick a tarantula, what one should study before doing this? This technique seems to be indeed quite interesting for unresponsive/reputable male killing Ts, like a chromato female for instance. it would be also a good thing to point this out to Stanley Schultz for him to put it in the latest edition of the Keeper's guide, if it isnt already known...

hey caco, next step with this tech is with the pedes...that would be hardcore haha

 

[cacoseraph]

well, the mechanics of how to get sperm from a pedipalp into the spermethecae is going to require some studying. i mean, do i try to snake a micropipette into her epigastric furrow? do i use a needle and pierce her exoskeleton and then glue her afterwards?

stuff like that

and as talken said... how long will sperm last? i have a feeling if you keep it from drying out (i.e. keep it in the palp) it will possibly last years. i know it can last ~3 years in a female, for sure.

 

[Talkenlate04]

and as talken said... how long will sperm last? i have a feeling if you keep it from drying out (i.e. keep it in the palp) it will possibly last years. i know it can last ~3 years in a female, for sure.

So in theory if the sperm is in a syringe and protected from drying out it might stay viable for an extended period of time. I am going to test this soon. I just need to catch a male in the act and kick him off the sperm web and collect it.

The only big problem is getting it into the female. If you push to hard and tear something inside her you could kill her. Or for all we know there is a plug of sorts left by the male as well when the sperm is deposited that prevents it from coming out from where it is meant to be stored, which I would assume would be in the upper parts of the spermathecae. Heck I have no idea if that would work or not. This is going to be interesting though.

 

[UrbanJungles]

What happens if a female is in premolt or not physically fit to breed...ie, not enough weight or size? Most of the time, if a female is not "receptive" to a male it's for a specific reason...generally the timing isn't "right" for reproduction. I guess you would have to hope that someone like Ryan is doing this who would be able to recognize the subtle "cues" of it just no being the right time...

 

[UrbanJungles]

The only big problem is getting it into the female. If you push to hard and tear something inside her you could kill her. Or for all we know there is a plug of sorts left by the male as well when the sperm is deposited that prevents it from coming out from where it is meant to be stored, which I would assume would be in the upper parts of the spermathecae. Heck I have no idea if that would work or not. This is going to be interesting though.

No, that's not your only problem. If you examine a male's bulbs, you'll notice that some of them are intricately designed to solely fit the specific female's sperm receptacles. The size and shape of the bulbs and often the spermathecae vary significantly from species to species. Often, the male will do more than just jab, there's a bit of a jab and twist involved in making the bulbs fit perfectly into the female...some have very specific and unique twists involved in the structure. This could prove problematic when it comes to delivering the sperm with a man made tool.

 

[Talkenlate04]

What happens if a female is in premolt or not physically fit to breed...ie, not enough weight or size? Most of the time, if a female is not "receptive" to a male it's for a specific reason...generally the timing isn't "right" for reproduction. I guess you would have to hope that someone like Ryan is doing this who would be able to recognize the subtle "cues" of it just no being the right time...

Well with pokies at least the signs they are not ready or willing are very easy to spot. They ether A don't move at all while the male is drumming his little heart out, B do a very obvious seizure like shaking back and forth sometimes side to side that does not in any way look like the receptive tapping they do when they are in the mood, or C they strike at and chase the male and try to make him lunch.

Other then that you hit walls all the time in breeding, the male is a wimp, the female is spooked easily ect. If there were a way to do this I would try it only when I had to, because they normally do know best. But where I think the advantage lies is instead of pairing them or co habiting them and "hoping" they do the deed, if this pans out some day you will KNOW the female got inseminated.

 

[Talkenlate04]

No, that's not your only problem. If you examine a male's bulbs, you'll notice that some of them are intricately designed to solely fit the specific female's sperm receptacles. The size and shape of the bulbs and often the spermathecae vary significantly from species to species. Often, the male will do more than just jab, there's a bit of a jab and twist involved in making the bulbs fit perfectly into the female...some have very specific and unique twists involved in the structure. This could prove problematic when it comes to delivering the sperm with a man made tool.

Oh I realize that problem to.
Also there have been several times when I paired my pokies that it seemed a mucus pouch or capsule of some sort might be a part of the delivery system. Almost like the sperm gets drawn up into the palp that is linned with something that all gets shot into the female. I see something sticking out of the female after the pairing and I can't tell if that is her parts inverted temporally from the insert or his goods that he deposited.

 

[cacoseraph]

yeah, you couldn't use techs like this or AI all the time. yo uwould possibly unintentionally (or dang near semi-intentionally) select for spiders that can't naturally be bred


as for female not ready... if someone is dumb enough to try to mate a premolt female i submit they have other problems to be worrying about



compared to some of the true spiders, tarantula sexual gear is pretty simple and tame in design. that is part of why they would make good candidates for study like this. the fact the are pracking HUGE (well, some are at any rate) is another



i woudl consider something like the restrained breeding or later the AI if the situation called for it. say... new species with a single MM in the states... or a male with some characteristic you REALLY want to pass to offsprings... dunno. but is moot point till we can actually do the AI =P

 

[UrbanJungles]

Oh I realize that problem to.
Also there have been several times when I paired my pokies that it seemed a mucus pouch or capsule of some sort might be a part of the delivery system. Almost like the sperm gets drawn up into the palp that is linned with something that all gets shot into the female. I see something sticking out of the female after the pairing and I can't tell if that is her parts inverted temporally from the insert or his goods that he deposited.

That would be semen, and the seminal plug to follow after the deed is done and the last little bit exposed to air hardens up.

 

[Talkenlate04]

woudl consider something like the restrained breeding or later the AI if the situation called for it. say... new species with a single MM in the states... or a male with some characteristic you REALLY want to pass to offsprings... dunno. but is moot point till we can actually do the AI =P

I just want to work on it to see if it can be done. But first I will do this sperm out of the body testing. That should be fairly simple.

Hey Caco how often do you think I should check the sperms viability? I would assume it would be frequently for the first go rounds.

 

[Talkenlate04]

That would be semen, and the seminal plug to follow after the deed is done and the last little bit exposed to air hardens up.

That is what I thought, but that does not seem like loose fluid, it seems like something is preventing it from dribbling everywhere.

 

[UrbanJungles]

That is what I thought, but that does not seem like loose fluid, it seems like something is preventing it from dribbling everywhere.

Yes, it's very viscous.

 

[cacoseraph]

Hey Caco how often do you think I should check the sperms viability? I would assume it would be frequently for the first go rounds.

well, the sperm is quiescent until the female puts some kinda juice on it to activate it.

i am not entirely sure how we could check on it. i mean, mammal spermies wiggle around when they are functional and cease movement when they expire. tarantula sperm is still until activated.


cogitating


i have one REALLY expesive solution. you can use luciferin/luciferase to check for ATP which should only be in living animal cells.

i think.

 

[monkey]

BTW, almost all livestock is conceived this way. They no longer take the oxen to the cows, it's all done with srynges and pipes and the animals can't doge the process either.

I might be picking hairs, but why would you take an ox to a cow, wouldn't it be a bull to a cow?

But I agree, pigs, cows, occasionally horses, but not usually sheep are usually conceived via artificial insemination

 

[Talkenlate04]

i am not entirely sure how we could check on it. i mean, mammal spermies wiggle around when they are functional and cease movement when they expire. tarantula sperm is still until activated.

Could I just squirt out some on a slide and check it at intervals to see if it is still mobile thus meaning it's alive?
Does T sperm even move? Or does the mother massage the sac so that the sperm can meet the egg? I would assume it does move I am just thinking out loud.

 

[cacoseraph]

my understanding is it is in some kinda sorta suspended animation until the female activates it when she mixes it with her eggs


so viable quiescent sperm will just sit there, like dead sperm would.

 

[Talkenlate04]

my understanding is it is in some kinda sorta suspended animation until the female activates it when she mixes it with her eggs


so viable quiescent sperm will just sit there, like dead sperm would.

So even if I get some sperm drawn up off a web its not going to do squat under a slide..... well poo that is boring. Then the only way to test it would be to mate females with it. And that by itself is slightly more complicated.

 

[cacoseraph]

nah

not the only way. as i said, their is the lucifer way =P


give me time. i am sure i can think of something. i might have to do even more damned research before i get a good way, though