Of Achantoscurrias and Nhandus..(venom?)

Vys

Arachnoprince
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Hello. A friend of mine, with 'basic' experience of tarantula keeping, but a bit more knowledge, is currently considering getting one of two species I'm wondering if you have any experience / opinions about in terms of general aggressiveness and venom potency for humans :
Nhandu Coloratovillosus(I don't like spelling that) and Achantoscurria Geniculata.
For I read somewhere (Gearhearts beginners' guide) that genus Achantoscurria has a medically significant venom, and so was lead to seek some knowledge on this divine spool, pertaining to information on however Achantoscurria venom is indeed a bit meaner than the standard T's, and specially Nhandus' ?




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Vys

Arachnoprince
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K, :

Are Acanthoscurrias generally considered having a meaner venom than the average T? Any opinions/experiences?
 

Pyrdacor

Arachnoknight
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Yes that is right indeed. Aconthoscurria spec is thought to have a potent venom considering the fact that it is a tarantula. And all species of the genus seem to be very aggressive. A. geniculata which is often called "White Smithi" is one of the very aggressive ones in the genus but also one of the most beautiful. But if you are used to dealing with aggressive ts there won't be any problem.
Unfortunately i don't know much about the genus nhandu :(
 

Vys

Arachnoprince
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Do you mean that Acanthoscurrias have a potent venom for a tarantula, or that it has potent venom because it is a tarantula ? I suppose the first, but better clear it out :)

Thanks for the info anyhow !
 

Pyrdacor

Arachnoknight
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Yes thats what i meant :). Didn't know how to express :)
The venom is potent for a tarantula.
 

rknralf

Arachnolord
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Huh?

I've currently got 4 Acanthoscurria geniculata's and although they appear more aggressive, they are just always hungry and seem to perceive any movement as a possible meal.
I've got a 7 inch male that I've been able to handle without incident, (I've raise this one from a 2 inch tarantula) but I believe this to be more the exception than the rule.
As for medically significant venom, I've never heard this linked to Acanthoscurria. If it is, I'd like to know.
As for medically significant, I've heard the pokies, and the featherleg and ornimental baboons, are stronger than average and can have some nasty side effects, but as for South American tarantulas, I'm really confused.
Maybe someone else can provide some additional information.
I'm certainly not an expert and would like to find out as well.
 

Pyrdacor

Arachnoknight
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I'm an expert neither but i found a table saying the following.
The potence of the venom in this example is messured in LD100, the amount of venom that is needed to kill 100% of the mice used for the "test". The lower the value the more potent is the venom because it means that the amount given subcutan or in the venes is enough to kill all mice. The amount of venom is given in ìg/g weight of the mouse. Here are the results( the first value is subcutan the second in the venes):
Acanthoscurria atrox - 42,5 - 15,0
Acanthoscurria musculosa - 22,5 - 10,5
Acanthoscurria sternalis - 31,0 - 15,0
Acanthoscurria violacea - 30,5 - 14,0
To compare:
Grammostola actaeon - 57,5 - 24,5
Eupalaestrus tenuitarsus - 105 - 47,5
From this you can see what i meant. The venom is more potent.
About the aggressive behaviour all i know is what i read because i don't own a Acanthoscurria spec myself.
 

Vys

Arachnoprince
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Yes. I wonder how much it goes for humans though. Hmm, they wonät prolly do such a test though, so that'll be the closest we can be in a while , I think :)
 

Pyrdacor

Arachnoknight
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If you compare the human organism to the one of a mouse. What of course is not right because they do react in different way getting injected the venom. So lets do a little bit of maths :). I know you guys like this :p. A mouse has about 20g of weight i think. So A. atrox would need subcutan 42,5*20=850 micrograms of venom to kill it. This are 0,000850g. Seems to be possible for the spider. Now we have an adult human with about 80kg of weight, that's 80000g. The spider would need 42,5*80000=3400000 microgramms. That means 3,4g. This is impossible for our sweet spiders, also considering the fact that humans react in another way than mice.
 

Vys

Arachnoprince
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Those numbers should convince you to get one Pyrd :)
Still...I know T's aren't funnel-webs..but..cats don't die from that venom, and humans sure do :/ ..or so I hear. Anyway, you've reassured me you need to be allergic to sustain some severe shock from an Acanthoscurria bite :)
Where'd you see those numbers btw ?
 

shmidti

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Venom in tarantulas

I raise a bunch of tarantulas.... such as
A. Geniculata
Nhandu Colorvillosum
P. Regalis
H. Lividium
P. Irminia
T. Blonde
B. Smithi
B. Auratum
B. Emilia
B. Bomei
B. Vagans
H. Shmidti
H. Maculata.............. and many more.


From what I understand about Tarantula Venom from my close friend Todd Gearheart is that it reacts differently to different people. Like for example most people are allergic to bee stings.
Some not. The same with ants and other insects. Some people a bee sting will send them into shock..... others just a little bump on the arm. Exept for haplopelma shmidti...........they call them cow KILLERS for a reason..........and I would be careful of poecilatheria regali, ornata, facsiata and the whole genus also.....
I know someone who almost died from an ornata bite!
 

Vys

Arachnoprince
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Yes, I've heard some genuses are worse than others. While I have no doubt different humans react differently, I do beileve it would be possible to generalize the effects of bites from every genus......if such an experiment were made ;)

Oh, and spaking of Acanthoscurrias;

Would it be possible to just keep them sustained on crickets, without having to give them lan insane amount of them?
 
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Pyrdacor

Arachnoknight
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The table is from Bucherl. Sure every person reacts differently, all i wanted to bring up was a simple example. :)
 

belewfripp

Arachnobaron
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The only problem I have with LD50 and LD100 tests is that a some Ts, especially bigger ones who probably dine at least partially on vertebrate and even warm-blooded prey in the wild, seem to have components of their venom that target that sort of prey harder than others, which makes sense given their proclivity for eating them. Which means that in an LD50 or LD100 test, the venom is going to react more potently because it is designed to be especially effective against that sort of animal. The results can therefore be misleading when trying to apply it to people.


As far as the original query goes, my A. geniculata is a bit feisty, but not overly so, and isn't really what I would call aggressive, though it is still young. My two Nhandu are skittish, but not aggressive. They will kick hairs and rarely they will show threat posture, but that is quite uncommon for them. They are N. carapoensis and N. vulpinus.


Adrian
 

Joy

Priestess of Pulchra-tude
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Originally posted by belewfripp


As far as the original query goes, my A. geniculata is a bit feisty, but not overly so, and isn't really what I would call aggressive, though it is still young. My two Nhandu are skittish, but not aggressive. They will kick hairs and rarely they will show threat posture, but that is quite uncommon for them. They are N. carapoensis and N. vulpinus.


Adrian
This has been my experience with these species, too, Adrian. I think a lot of what people call aggression in genics is just a very, very well-developed feeding response!

Joy
 

shmidti

Arachnopeon
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Acanthescurria

Hey vys,
As your A. Genic. gets bigger you can feed it rat pups. You can just feed them crickets but just remember in the wild they feast on other insects such as roaches,lizards,small birds,etc...
 
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