News Pertaining school and scorpions
- Thread starter Radamanthys
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http://scorpions.dimensional-rift.co.uk/LD50table.htm
On that table it seems like the three most toxic Centruroides have more potent then the three most toxic Tityus.
But, it all varies with people so it doesn't matter right?
On that table it seems like the three most toxic Centruroides have more potent then the three most toxic Tityus.
But, it all varies with people so it doesn't matter right?
Tree hugging hippie!, think of those babies, do you know what happens to a baby when it would get stung by T.serrulatus? Didn't you read the post?
And if I would be exterminated I wouldn't feel much anymore, now would I? Next time, think a bit longer when you react to a post and not so primary and hyperemotionally.
All,
Regarding the Tityus-Centruroides venom, I do not know about the toxicity and the exact differences, but I do know that far more people, mostly children, die from Tityus envenomations than from Centruroides envenomations. Imo, the fact that
Pandinus mentions medical facilities as a main factor that decreases incidents with a fatal outcome, he is right. That's why species like C.sculpturatus and C.exilicauda did not cause death since 1968 in the US.
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i really got to side with you on this one. Tittyus serrulatus is a excellent and majestic scorpion, i have owned three before, and it is an amazing species, but when it comes down to people's safety, especially that of children, my love of the animals comes second. and the fact that these are highly adaptable parthenogenic breeders means that unfortunately for the scorpions, there really is no other way apart from extermination to remove an infestation. as far as the toxicity of centruroides vs. tityus, the two are more or less similar, with tityus having a slight edge IMHO, but what makes the tityus sp in question here more dangerous than centruroides IMO, is the method of reproduction, IE a single scorpion can grow and mature and give birth to several litters without mating, and each litter in turn is likely to have at least a handful of surviving offspring, which each will grow and produce multiple litters, etc.think of those babies, do you know what happens to a baby when it would get stung by T.serrulatus? Didn't you read the post?
Next time, think a bit longer when you react to a post and not so primary and hyperemotionally.
All,
Regarding the Tityus-Centruroides venom, I do not know about the toxicity and the exact differences, but I do know that far more people, mostly children, die from Tityus envenomations than from Centruroides envenomations. Imo, the fact that
Pandinus mentions medical facilities as a main factor that decreases incidents with a fatal outcome, he is right. That's why species like C.sculpturatus and C.exilicauda did not cause death since 1968 in the US.
John
BTW for anyone interested here is a paper i posted about 2 years ago on the interesting adaptation of parthenogenesis in Brazilian scorpions seemingly as a result of human urbanization. it was for a composition class so the lingo is in very layman's terms and is very watered down.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=77310&highlight=tityus
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I am sorry for being rude previously. I just made a stupid joke. I just don't understand why can't the specimen just be removed from the school? Is extermination really that necessary?
I also don't think that these specimen will specifically go after children. Don't they eat roaches and other pests in that school? They don't target the kids for food.
I like that tree hugging hippie thing. I actually am one.
I also don't think that these specimen will specifically go after children. Don't they eat roaches and other pests in that school? They don't target the kids for food.
I like that tree hugging hippie thing. I actually am one.
Yeah, I didn't find your post rude, just too emotional, but then again, calling you a tree hugger was also too emotional Believe me, I love animals and we should protect the world we live in, because we humans tend to destroy it, but I love babies even more.
the thing is, when a baby would get stung, it would need immediate treatment or it would die within a short period.
The scorpions do not see the babies as a natural prey item, offcourse, but this is irrelevant as they also do not see adult humans as prey items and still 1000's of people die each year from envenomation. So it is not a matter of prey and predation, but a matter of the risk of envenomations and opportunistic scorpion species that inhabit human dwellings. The scorpions can't help that there venom is life treathening too us. That's just a pity for us.
Believe me, I love animals and we should protect the world we live in, because we humans tend to destroy it, but I love babies even more. the thing is, when a baby would get stung, it would need immediate treatment or it would die within a short period.
The scorpions do not see the babies as a natural prey item, offcourse, but this is irrelevant as they also do not see adult humans as prey items and still 1000's of people die each year from envenomation. So it is not a matter of prey and predation, but a matter of the risk of envenomations and opportunistic scorpion species that inhabit human dwellings. The scorpions can't help that there venom is life treathening too us. That's just a pity for us.
We weren't talking about C.sculp/ex
I know, but I was because it made a nice example of the importance of medical facilities in correlation with Tityus envenomation, etc etc
Try to see the bigger picture here
BTw, the LD50 list you are talking about, LD50 values are not everything and also tested on mice. I'd take a Centruroides sting for a Tityus sting anyday....
You're saying rural Mexico has good medical facilities?
Lulz.
I know.
Lulz.
I know.
Like I said before.... suit yourself.
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Hi,
When children are in an structural environment infested with scorpions there should be only one protocal. Remove the kids first and deal with the pests issues thereafter.
Pest management is easy to implement without liquid residual chemicals/dusts in so areas. Example, blacklighting the facility at night and bag the scorpions for ID later. Placing glue boards in descrete places, etc. for spiders (e.g., ctenids) will reduce indoor human contact with various arthropods.
Public health issues due to envenomation from scorpions, spiders, snakes will take president in articles presented here but innovative pest manangement practices can elimanate the sources and or harborages and keep the children and employees safe.
Regarding use with pesticides, always follow the current laws with restricted use and or labels in your country, state and or county/municipality.
On a side note, I'm surprised with the responces thus so far. It seems which genus is more venomous than the other, or extermination of scorpions is more of concern than the safety of our own children.
Regards,
Sinc. Chad
When children are in an structural environment infested with scorpions there should be only one protocal. Remove the kids first and deal with the pests issues thereafter.
Pest management is easy to implement without liquid residual chemicals/dusts in so areas. Example, blacklighting the facility at night and bag the scorpions for ID later. Placing glue boards in descrete places, etc. for spiders (e.g., ctenids) will reduce indoor human contact with various arthropods.
Public health issues due to envenomation from scorpions, spiders, snakes will take president in articles presented here but innovative pest manangement practices can elimanate the sources and or harborages and keep the children and employees safe.
Regarding use with pesticides, always follow the current laws with restricted use and or labels in your country, state and or county/municipality.
On a side note, I'm surprised with the responces thus so far. It seems which genus is more venomous than the other, or extermination of scorpions is more of concern than the safety of our own children.
Regards,
Sinc. Chad
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Scorps are not infestations, they're a gift from nature to you
In all seriousness, the combination of the weakness in babies and it's quite possible that the health care is not as good (though this is Sao Paulo, a major city), it is a bunch of accidents waiting to happen. Regrettably, extermination is the cheapest and most efficient way to get rid of the infestation though there are probably many more waiting to get in to a dark, warm hiding spot within the building.
In all seriousness, the combination of the weakness in babies and it's quite possible that the health care is not as good (though this is Sao Paulo, a major city), it is a bunch of accidents waiting to happen. Regrettably, extermination is the cheapest and most efficient way to get rid of the infestation though there are probably many more waiting to get in to a dark, warm hiding spot within the building.
Hi Aztek,
no I wasn't saying that, if this was the case Mexico did not have such a problem with scorpionism.
I should have thought more, because my posts lacked nuance.
There are a couple of Centruroides species like infamatus, noxius, suffusus etc that are highly venomous and that post serious dangers, just like some Tityus species.
The questions of what species is more venomous is not interesting for me, I look at the somatical symptoms that it causes, regardless of the LD50 value.
Btw, the table you PM me is outdated. I have Polis his book.
T.serrulatus maybe No.7 on that list, but since much has changed since Polis his book, the data in that table and the distribution of T.bahiensis and T.serrulatus in urbanized areas in Brazil, I suspect these species are higher (higher than no. 7) on the ladder in current times.
Chad, I don't know if you are reffering to me, but my idea behind the extermination was the safety and wellbeing of those children
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yes, that was my point as well, although somehow we seemed to have gotten off on a tangent. what i was essentially trying to express that though we are all fond of scorpions and it is a shame for them to be destroyed, the saftey of human beings, especially children should always be tantamount to any other interests in the situation.Chad, I don't know if you are reffering to me, but my idea behind the extermination was the safety and wellbeing of those children
John
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Hi Michiel,
I follow your sentiments. I should of worded my last statement a little different.
On a side note, I prefer pest management rather than extermination.
Sinc. Chad
I follow your sentiments. I should of worded my last statement a little different.
On a side note, I prefer pest management rather than extermination.
Sinc. Chad
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well if it can be done effectively this seems the obvious way to go as it means minimizing casualties on both sides, but there is always the possiblity that such methods may not prove fast or effective enough, but i do agree that if possible management is prefferable to destructionHi Michiel,
I follow your sentiments. I should of worded my last statement a little different.
On a side note, I prefer pest management rather than extermination.
Sinc. Chad
John
I hear ya Chad,
I prefer babies in concrete buildings with arachnid/ insect proof windows, ducts, doorsteps etc etc etc. This is not always possible in third or second world countries.
I agree that pest control would be a better idea and also even if you would exterminate all specimens in that building, it would be matter of time before new specimens would house in the building again.
Ciao, Michiel
I prefer babies in concrete buildings with arachnid/ insect proof windows, ducts, doorsteps etc etc etc. This is not always possible in third or second world countries.
I agree that pest control would be a better idea and also even if you would exterminate all specimens in that building, it would be matter of time before new specimens would house in the building again.
Ciao, Michiel