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Mandybean

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Hi all :)
Just wanted to post as I have recently joined the forum and am looking forward to learning as much as I can about my spiders.
My first tarantula was a Chaco golden knee spiderling/juvenile (not sure what the line is between these!) it was growing well and looked healthy and had moulted a few times but unfortunately a few days ago it died :(
Visited a pet shop to get a new one and ended up coming home with 4!

1 E. Murinus about 3/3.5 inches
1 Brazilian White Knee sling
2x Chaco gold knee slings

One question I have is I think the E. Murinus ideally needs deeper substrate than I was advised when I bought it so I want to get a deeper enclosure for it. But as it's just travelled in a box and been put in a new habitat and is probably going to be a bit stressed until it settles into its new home, is it best to wait a while before I change its house again? At the moment its substrate is about 3 inches deep and it hasn't attempted to burrow anywhere.

The baby ones are doing great :) the skeleton has been moving around a bit, sat in its water bowl, made a load of webs, but generally looks a bit peeved still!
 

TownesVanZandt

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Welcome to the forum!

As for your E. murinus, if you plan to rehouse it you should do so now, before it burrows in its current enclosure.
 

WeightedAbyss75

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In all honesty, you could probably move it and have no issues. 5-8" of sub is what they like so they can construct burrows, but 3" could work. Better to do it while it still hasn't quite settled into the new home you gave it. They lobe it moist and deep sub. It can take some time for burrowers to start feeling comfortable enough to actually create a burrow. Any pics of the enclosures? Great species you have. Welcome to the forums and the hobby!
 

Mandybean

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I only have one rubbish pic of the actual containers at the moment. The smallest 2 are just in plastic tubs for now.
I'm using coconut soil mixed in with Tarantula Life substrate, the E.Murinus has a branch, fake plant, water bowl, some moss and I made a small tunnel against the side with a tube on the off chance it might use it and I'll be able to see it when it's hiding.
Yesterday it was fully sat in the water bowl like a cat squashing itself into a cardboard box! But it's nice and moist in there.
 

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Andrea82

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Welcome!
Sorry your G.pulchripes died :(, but beautiful new acquisitions!

I have an E.murinus of about that size as well. I offered it about 20/25 cm of moist substrate, some plants for anchoring web to, a big waterdish and a premade hole for burrowing. I also added springtails to her enclosure, to help keep mold out of it, and to deal with leftovers, since they are tropicals and need more humidity.

If you need to rehouse, i would do it now, like others mentioned. They can take some time to settle down. Mine wandered for a few days, during the day huddling under a leaf, but took to the burrow with gusto. She has created a great mount Doom out of it, reaching all the way to the lid.
I can see her pretty much every night, showing off her pretty legs :)
 

Mandybean

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Aug 25, 2016
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Thanks, I might try springtails, I do remember seeing them at the shop. I haven't actually bought a new house yet so it will have to wait a few days anyway, hopefully that will be ok.
I'm open to any suggestions/tips if anything with my setup needs changing. How often does yours eat?
 

YagerManJennsen

Arachnobaron
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Jan 3, 2016
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508
Just a word of warning friend, Heat Mats can be dangerous for Ts. If you're concerned about temps, If you are comfortable then so are your Ts. If it does get cold then I suggest a standard space heater.

Hope all goes well for your new 8 legged friends, you have some great Species.
 

Mandybean

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Thank you, I've heard that a lot of people are wary of heat mats, but my house is really cold at the moment. It's minus temperatures outside and my house has rubbish windows/heating. I spend most evenings with about 3 pairs of socks on, massive fluffy pyjamas, blanket etc so it's not really comfortable for me either haha. I think as soon as the weather gets a bit warmer again I will do without it (never used it for my previous one)
The mat is on the side, it's not pressed against the tank either there's a small gap, and it only covers a small area of the living space anyway, I'm not too worried about it for now :) but I will be careful of it, thanks for the warning
 

Andrea82

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Just a word of warning friend, Heat Mats can be dangerous for Ts. If you're concerned about temps, If you are comfortable then so are your Ts. If it does get cold then I suggest a standard space heater.

Hope all goes well for your new 8 legged friends, you have some great Species.
E.murinus actually does better on higher than room-temp. ;)
 

Trenor

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Jan 28, 2016
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Thank you, I've heard that a lot of people are wary of heat mats, but my house is really cold at the moment. It's minus temperatures outside and my house has rubbish windows/heating. I spend most evenings with about 3 pairs of socks on, massive fluffy pyjamas, blanket etc so it's not really comfortable for me either haha. I think as soon as the weather gets a bit warmer again I will do without it (never used it for my previous one)
The mat is on the side, it's not pressed against the tank either there's a small gap, and it only covers a small area of the living space anyway, I'm not too worried about it for now :) but I will be careful of it, thanks for the warning
What is the temp around your Ts?
 

Andrea82

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Thank you, I've heard that a lot of people are wary of heat mats, but my house is really cold at the moment. It's minus temperatures outside and my house has rubbish windows/heating. I spend most evenings with about 3 pairs of socks on, massive fluffy pyjamas, blanket etc so it's not really comfortable for me either haha. I think as soon as the weather gets a bit warmer again I will do without it (never used it for my previous one)
The mat is on the side, it's not pressed against the tank either there's a small gap, and it only covers a small area of the living space anyway, I'm not too worried about it for now :) but I will be careful of it, thanks for the warning
I would put the mat higher up the enclosure. Since E.murinus burrows, you don't want it digging towards the heat, which can lead to dangerous situations.
Good to read you don't have a sticky mat, those get way too hot.

Re:springtails, i can really recommend getting them. I was sceptic at first, like, how can a bunch of tiny creatures make sure there's no remains to go moldy? But it works, and even better, they are self-sustaining, and prolific breeders. So you buy them once, release them in the enclosure, and you're done!
 

Trenor

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Good to read you don't have a sticky mat, those get way too hot.
You realize this isn't true, right? The wattage a heat pad is rated for dictates how hot it gets and having adhesive doesn't mean it gets any hotter than one without adhesive. Your pad without adhesive and mine with adhesive will reach roughly the same temperature if they have the same wattage rating. That's why they have the wattage ratings on them.

Think of it like a light bulb - a 100 watt soft white bulb uses the same amount of power and puts off roughly the same amount of heat as a 100 watt black light bulb.
 

Andrea82

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You realize this isn't true, right? The wattage a heat pad is rated for dictates how hot it gets and having adoesn't mean it gets any hotter than one without adhesive. Your pad without adhesive and mine with adhesive will reach roughly the same temperature if they have the same wattage rating. That's why they have the wattage ratings on them.

Think of it like a light bulb - a 100 watt soft white bulb uses the same amount of power and puts off roughly the same amount of heat as a 100 watt black light bulb.
If your matt without coating (like
the sticky mat) is the same watt as my coated mat, the temperatures will vary because there is more material insulating that heat. If say, the oven is hot to the touch, but you just go ahead and take out the cookies with your bare hands, you will get seriously burned. If i however take it out wearing baking mittens, it will not injure me. Same goes for the mat. Sticky mats have far less insulation than the ones i am talking about, and get hot to the touch, en heat up the glass enormously. The ones with insulations don't get hot too the touch, even though they are the same voltage.
 

Trenor

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If your matt without coating (like
the sticky mat) is the same watt as my coated mat, the temperatures will vary because there is more material insulating that heat. If say, the oven is hot to the touch, but you just go ahead and take out the cookies with your bare hands, you will get seriously burned. If i however take it out wearing baking mittens, it will not injure me. Same goes for the mat. Sticky mats have far less insulation than the ones i am talking about, and get hot to the touch, en heat up the glass enormously. The ones with insulations don't get hot too the touch, even though they are the same voltage.
All mats (regardless if they have adhesives or not) have a plastic coating (what you're calling insulation) not sure why you think they don't. There is just a thicker coating on the back side (of the adhesive ones) which allows the heat to go the direction you want(the front). An 8 watt heat mat will make the same heat regardless of coating or insulation. If your heat mat used it's insulation to hold in heat (as in your oven mitt example or even as in a oven does) then the inside would overheat (because the heat couldn't get out due to the insulation) and burn out. Your heat pad gives off the same amount of heat as the other (adhesive) pad with the same watt rating.

The sticky pad just makes better use of the heat it produces by directing it towards the place you're trying to heat. Heat pads come in all wattage ratings so if the 8 watt is too hot get something with a lower wattage rating. The problem comes in where most people just grabs a random heat pad (without checking it's rating), plugs it into the wall, and never checks it's max temp it's producing.

If you buy one that tosses most of the heat out to the air (the one you have) then you're likely not to have a problem but you're paying for electricity/heat you're wasting.

If you buy one just larger than you need and place it on the enclosure (with the sticky), plug it into a variable resistor (regular lamp dimmer switch that can handle the wattage of the heat pad), measure the temp and adjust the dimmer till it's giving off the temp you needed. Then it would use much less power and you'd still have no problem. This is the best option if you're trying to save money.

Most people are not going to do the checks and adjustments. They put a heat pad on that is hotter then they need. The pet dies (dehydrated Ts) or gets burned (I've seen snakes and lizards with bad burns). That is why heat pads get a bad rap.

So it's much better to explain to people about how heat pads works (wattage and all) then to say a whole set of (adhesive) heat pads are faulty or bad when they are not.
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
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They (Ephebophus murinus) need lots of inches of slightly moist or moist substrate (here depends, there's not a rule because always you need to consider everything, from where you live, the heathing system of the house/room, the air... everything) and something for hide (I always suggest cork bark, IMO the best, and start a hole near/under that, btw).

You can move a not even juvenile specimen to his/her final enclosure without problems. They are class A burrowers. The burrow of my female Skeletron baby can compete with my H.gigas & P.muticus ones, I guarantee you this. They need time, and just like a M.robustum they don't like to be moved too much.
 

Andrea82

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All mats (regardless if they have adhesives or not) have a plastic coating (what you're calling insulation) not sure why you think they don't. There is just a thicker coating on the back side (of the adhesive ones) which allows the heat to go the direction you want(the front). An 8 watt heat mat will make the same heat regardless of coating or insulation. If your heat mat used it's insulation to hold in heat (as in your oven mitt example or even as in a oven does) then the inside would overheat (because the heat couldn't get out due to the insulation) and burn out. Your heat pad gives off the same amount of heat as the other (adhesive) pad with the same watt rating.

The sticky pad just makes better use of the heat it produces by directing it towards the place you're trying to heat. Heat pads come in all wattage ratings so if the 8 watt is too hot get something with a lower wattage rating. The problem comes in where most people just grabs a random heat pad (without checking it's rating), plugs it into the wall, and never checks it's max temp it's producing.

If you buy one that tosses most of the heat out to the air (the one you have) then you're likely not to have a problem but you're paying for electricity/heat you're wasting.

If you buy one just larger than you need and place it on the enclosure (with the sticky), plug it into a variable resistor (regular lamp dimmer switch that can handle the wattage of the heat pad), measure the temp and adjust the dimmer till it's giving off the temp you needed. Then it would use much less power and you'd still have no problem. This is the best option if you're trying to save money.

Most people are not going to do the checks and adjustments. They put a heat pad on that is hotter then they need. The pet dies (dehydrated Ts) or gets burned (I've seen snakes and lizards with bad burns). That is why heat pads get a bad rap.

So it's much better to explain to people about how heat pads works (wattage and all) then to say a whole set of (adhesive) heat pads are faulty or bad when they are not.
I get what you mean. But why do people get mats that are hot to the touch? It makes no sense at all to expect a pad that is so hot you can't hold it to be beneficial for the T.
 

Trenor

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I get what you mean. But why do people get mats that are hot to the touch? It makes no sense at all to expect a pad that is so hot you can't hold it to be beneficial for the T.
They make those mats for large water filled aquariums which need decent heat. People get pads that end up hot to the touch because they don't know any better. You can't plug it in and check it in the store. How hot is an 8 watt heat pad? Anyone know? I didn't. (Side note: I'd like to wire in my meter and see how hot a pad is with 1-10 watts of power going through it) So they go with a random pad and it's usually way too hot for what they are needing.

I can't remember what wattage pad I used for the dubia breeder bin is but it was made to keep a very large water filled tank warm. I have the dimmer turned down to 35 percent of the full power and it keeps the bin at 92 degrees in a 70 degree room. Think if I put that thing on the side of a T enclosure without a dimmer. That T would be dead in very little time.

I don't think I've ever heard people on here talk about wattage ratings determining how much heat a pad puts out. So most people just don't know any better. That's why you have a lot of people who don't like heat mats. It's easy to use them badly and kill/hurt pets.
 
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Mandybean

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Sorry to start a debate!

The heat pad I've got is only a really small one and its 6 watts. It hardly gives off any heat to the touch and it isn't pressed to the plastic (it's actually just leaning back against the wall, not the spider tank) so I think the effect is pretty minimal anyway. I just wanted the spider to have an option of being able to go to a slightly warmer corner of the tank if it needed to. it's the opposite corner to where the water bowl and damp moss is.
I think it would get a lot hotter if it was underneath the tank so the heat can't escape anywhere
 

Andrea82

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Sorry to start a debate!

The heat pad I've got is only a really small one and its 6 watts. It hardly gives off any heat to the touch and it isn't pressed to the plastic (it's actually just leaning back against the wall, not the spider tank) so I think the effect is pretty minimal anyway. I just wanted the spider to have an option of being able to go to a slightly warmer corner of the tank if it needed to. it's the opposite corner to where the water bowl and damp moss is.
I think it would get a lot hotter if it was underneath the tank so the heat can't escape anywhere
Don't worry, debate is good ;)

@Trenor
If a heat mat is supposed to heat a large tank with water in it, it is not very smart to use such a mat for T's. I check what i buy, especially when it comes to my spiders. If people don't check what they are buying, then it is their mistake if something goes wrong, and not so much the heat mat, which bouls down to the same conclusion as in the other thread. People's mistakes is what make mats dangerous, not the mat itself.
 

Mandybean

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Aug 25, 2016
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I've ordered a deeper tank :)
Also if anyone has general advice/info about the E. Murinus I can't find a great deal of information online so I'd be interested to hear others experiences of them :)
 
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