New to millipedes and would very much appreciate some advice!

pinkpolicebox

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Hello! I'm new to this forum and to millipedes and was hoping I could get some general advice and opinions on some specific things.

To start I have never raised millipedes, but I have had a wide variety of other animals and am hopeful that that experience will help me out some :)

On Monday I'll be ordering one or two African Black Millipedes and they should be arriving the next day. I looked up the basics for an enclosure and went out and bought some things yesterday, but after reading through some of the threads on here I'm a little concerned that I may not have a good enough set up.

1507717_10152346530034885_5114134565468412451_n.jpg

Specifically I am worried about ventilation, substrate content, heating, and food.

1959493_10152346580114885_2838804550001922825_n.jpg

As you can see in the above photo the lid allows for a fair amount of air flow, do you think it's too much? I have a hydrometer so that I can monitor the humidity once things are set up, but I would rather fix any issues before they happen instead of after. Should I buy a new tank all together? Should I just tape over some of the lid? Or is it fine as is.

For substrate I got a mixture that is not listed as anything besides 'forest moss' (http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/forest_moss.php), thoughts on this?

In terms of heating I did not get anything extra, but a couple of websites recommended an under tank heating pad. I worry that might cause things to get too dry or too hot, but again, any thoughts?

Food seemed really straight forward on the couple of websites I read before I went out bought the things for my set up, but after I read through various threads on here it looks a lot more complicated. I don't mind complicated, I just want to make sure I have all my information straight. According to the sites I looked at I basically would need to feed them a combination of various decaying fruits/vegetables along with a calcium supplement, but I saw all kinds of different suggestions here (shredded aspen, oak leaves, ect.). What do you all personally use and why?


The millipedes I'll be getting are just babies (I think they said they are around 1 inch at the moment), so this is just my set up until they grow a bit. Please let me know what you think!

Also one question that isn't directly related, what are some other types of millipedes that could do well living with AGBs? I am specifically looking for something that is similar in size when fully grown, but different in appearance. On a side note, how do you tell the difference between your millipedes? Is there a safe way to mark them? For example, I helped a friend raise puppies once and we would paint the nails on one of their paws different colors so we knew who was who. I imagine nail polish wouldn't be safe for a millipede, but do you have any similar methods?

Anyway, thank you very much for your time! And I hope this thread is okay and is in the right forum (please let me know if it's not!)
 

Cavedweller

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Welcome to the millipede hobby!

I know the Millipedes in Captivity book is kinda pricey, but it really has pretty much EVERYTHING you need to know about the basics of millipede care, and I strongly recommend it. Bugs in Cyberspace sells it, so if you order any pedes from them you could pick it up there to save on shipping.

As you can see in the above photo the lid allows for a fair amount of air flow, do you think it's too much? I have a hydrometer so that I can monitor the humidity once things are set up, but I would rather fix any issues before they happen instead of after. Should I buy a new tank all together? Should I just tape over some of the lid? Or is it fine as is.
That setup is waaaaay too big for 1" pedelings and they will escape through the lid vents. I keep mine in a 5" plastic takeout cup with pinholes in the lid. Any sort of plastic tub with a snap on lid and works well once you poke some airholes. My personal (by no means expert) opinion is that the minimum size tank to keep pedes in should be 1L x 2L with a minimum substrate depth of 1L, L being the length of the longest pede. So for example a few 4" pedes could live in a 4X4X8" container, but more room is always better of course.

Hygrometers aren't that accurate, but I think they can be useful for when you're still getting a feel for how humid the tank should be. After a few months you'll figure out how to tell by the color of the substrate if it's drying out. Ideally the cocofiber-based substrate should be dark, and when the top layer starts to dry out and lighten, just give it a misting.

I'd suggest getting adults of another species to keep in that kritter keeper. Florida ivory millipedes (Chicobolus spinigerus) are a fantastic starter and I hear Narceus species are good too. Keep in mind that if the substrate is anywhere close to the lid any babies you get will be able to escape the KK lid. Also Kritter Keepers have a bit more ventilation than most pedes need, so you'll need to cover half of the lid with plastic wrap or something.

In terms of heating I did not get anything extra, but a couple of websites recommended an under tank heating pad. I worry that might cause things to get too dry or too hot, but again, any thoughts?
Heating pads can be dangerous, ESPECIALLY when placed under the tank, since bugs burrow to get away from the heat. If its really cold I use a carefully monitored space heater or maybe an infrared heat lamp a safe distance away (I have to water much more often if I do this), but generally I keep my bugs at room temperature (69 to 78 in my house depending on the time of year).

Food seemed really straight forward on the couple of websites I read before I went out bought the things for my set up, but after I read through various threads on here it looks a lot more complicated. I don't mind complicated, I just want to make sure I have all my information straight. According to the sites I looked at I basically would need to feed them a combination of various decaying fruits/vegetables along with a calcium supplement, but I saw all kinds of different suggestions here (shredded aspen, oak leaves, ect.). What do you all personally use and why?
Millipedes can eat fruits and vegetables, but the bulk of their diet is rotten leaves/hardwood, and they will not flourish without this. I collect oak leaves/wood from outside (careful to choose places that probably don't have pesticide exposure), bake them to sterilize (not a 100% required step), and shred the wood into little pieces. I mix everything with cocofiber to use as substrate (50% cocofiber, 25% leaves, 25% shredded wood). If I don't have enough wood I add some aspen shaving pet bedding, which will rot and become edible to the pedes. I top this all off with about 2 inches of crushed dead leaves. I don't use calcium supplements at all, someone else will have to give you any info on that.

I offer supplemental food like fruit/vegetables/dog kibble once a week at the most, and remove uneaten food after about 2 days to prevent mite infestations.

The millipedes I'll be getting are just babies (I think they said they are around 1 inch at the moment), so this is just my set up until they grow a bit. Please let me know what you think!

Also one question that isn't directly related, what are some other types of millipedes that could do well living with AGBs? I am specifically looking for something that is similar in size when fully grown, but different in appearance. On a side note, how do you tell the difference between your millipedes? Is there a safe way to mark them? For example, I helped a friend raise puppies once and we would paint the nails on one of their paws different colors so we knew who was who. I imagine nail polish wouldn't be safe for a millipede, but do you have any similar methods?
There aren't any species readily available in the US hobby that come anywhere close to ABG size. You can usually keep pedes of varying sizes/species together without trouble, though males from a larger species may attempt to mate with smaller females and accidentally injure/kill them (I had a problem with this last week and had to separate them).

I once painted tiny dots on pillbugs to tell them apart, but every time they molted the dots would come off so I just gave up. You generally can't tell pedes apart unless they have some sort of distinguishing feature like a wonky segment.

If anyone spots any mistakes or misinformation or just stuff I forgot, please speak up!
 

Elytra and Antenna

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Consider Cavedweller's advice. You are getting baby AGBs which are not hardy and accepting of improper care and food like the adults. I strongly suggest you take back the water dish and cedar half log.
 
Last edited:

pinkpolicebox

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Thank's so much for your response!

I know the Millipedes in Captivity book is kinda pricey, but it really has pretty much EVERYTHING you need to know about the basics of millipede care, and I strongly recommend it. Bugs in Cyberspace sells it, so if you order any pedes from them you could pick it up there to save on shipping.
I will be ordering it later today!

That setup is waaaaay too big for 1" pedelings and they will escape through the lid vents. I keep mine in a 5" plastic takeout cup with pinholes in the lid. Any sort of plastic tub with a snap on lid and works well once you poke some airholes. My personal (by no means expert) opinion is that the minimum size tank to keep pedes in should be 1L x 2L with a minimum substrate depth of 1L, L being the length of the longest pede. So for example a few 4" pedes could live in a 4X4X8" container, but more room is always better of course.
10256907_10152348830984885_8540025351848048296_n.jpg Would something like this (with holes poked in the lid) be better? It's about 6"x5"3".

Hygrometers aren't that accurate, but I think they can be useful for when you're still getting a feel for how humid the tank should be. After a few months you'll figure out how to tell by the color of the substrate if it's drying out. Ideally the cocofiber-based substrate should be dark, and when the top layer starts to dry out and lighten, just give it a misting.
I've gotten fairly good at telling whether or not humidity is right just by looking, but that's just for my snakes, and from what i've read the millipedes will need it to be at least 10-15% more humid than i'm used to looking for. Would you say the soil should be lightly moist, damp, soaking wet, ect?

I'd suggest getting adults of another species to keep in that kritter keeper. Florida ivory millipedes (Chicobolus spinigerus) are a fantastic starter and I hear Narceus species are good too. Keep in mind that if the substrate is anywhere close to the lid any babies you get will be able to escape the KK lid. Also Kritter Keepers have a bit more ventilation than most pedes need, so you'll need to cover half of the lid with plastic wrap or something.
I will look into those! I can easily return the kritter keeper and just get some large Tupperware or something instead if you think it would be better in terms of ventilation!

Heating pads can be dangerous, ESPECIALLY when placed under the tank, since bugs burrow to get away from the heat. If its really cold I use a carefully monitored space heater or maybe an infrared heat lamp a safe distance away (I have to water much more often if I do this), but generally I keep my bugs at room temperature (69 to 78 in my house depending on the time of year).
I will go ahead and forget the heating pad then and take your other suggestions to mind for the future (I doubt it's too cold this time of year, but I may need supplemental heat in the winter)

There aren't any species readily available in the US hobby that come anywhere close to ABG size. You can usually keep pedes of varying sizes/species together without trouble, though males from a larger species may attempt to mate with smaller females and accidentally injure/kill them (I had a problem with this last week and had to separate them).
I was hoping for something around maybe 6-7"? Does any species around that size come to mind?


And again, thank you for the info!
 

pinkpolicebox

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Consider Cavedweller's advice. You are getting baby AGBs which are not hardy and accepting of improper care and food like the adults. I strongly suggest you take back the water dish and cedar half log.
Do you have any recommendations for a better water source? Or are they fine just drinking the water in the substrate, ect.? Also do they not need any kind of extra dark hiding place?

Thank you!

---------- Post added 04-13-2014 at 03:53 PM ----------

Where in heck are you getting African black millipedes in the usa??
Cavedweller directed me to someone who was currently selling :)
 

Cavedweller

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You said...wonky segment. :biggrin::biggrin:
W-what? Did I say something funny?

Consider Cavedweller's advice. You are getting baby AGBs which are not hardy and accepting of improper care and food like the adults. I strongly suggest you take back the water dish and cedar half log.
Oops I missed those, thanks for catching that!

Where in heck are you getting African black millipedes in the usa??
I know one place that has some AGB plings right now, but I don't know if they have any left. Let me know if you want their contact info.

Would something like this (with holes poked in the lid) be better? It's about 6"x5"3".
Yeah, that sort of thing is great to keep pedes in! Just make sure the airholes aren't big enough for babies to escape through.

I've gotten fairly good at telling whether or not humidity is right just by looking, but that's just for my snakes, and from what i've read the millipedes will need it to be at least 10-15% more humid than i'm used to looking for. Would you say the soil should be lightly moist, damp, soaking wet, ect?
I keep it somewhere between lightly moist and damp, as long as it's not downright soggy it should be good.

I was hoping for something around maybe 6-7"? Does any species around that size come to mind?
I don't think there are any US species that reach that size, though Orthoporus can get close, but they're desert species and have slightly different humidity/ventilation needs than most pedes, and aren't known to breed in captivity. If you want pedes that big you'll have to get pricey foreign species like Philippine giant blue-greys, which I don't really recommend for beginners. I suggest you stick with some of the easy to keep, native species for until you have a little experience under your belt. Ours might not be quite as impressive, but they're pretty fun to keep nonetheless.

Do you have any recommendations for a better water source? Or are they fine just drinking the water in the substrate, ect.? Also do they not need any kind of extra dark hiding place?
They don't need a water dish as long as their substrate is moist enough, a dish is also a drowning hazard for plings. They spend most of their time underground so as long as the sub is deep enough to burrow in they have no need for hides.
 

SDCPs

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I STRONGLY suggest that you get some ivory millipedes. They are very fun...much more so than the giants but are much smaller when fully grown so not as impressive. But it will give you opportunity to learn on a forgiving and cheap species before getting a rare and expensive bunch of animals.

My website has my care advice on it.
 

pinkpolicebox

Arachnopeon
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Messages
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Millipedes can eat fruits and vegetables, but the bulk of their diet is rotten leaves/hardwood, and they will not flourish without this. I collect oak leaves/wood from outside (careful to choose places that probably don't have pesticide exposure), bake them to sterilize (not a 100% required step), and shred the wood into little pieces. I mix everything with cocofiber to use as substrate (50% cocofiber, 25% leaves, 25% shredded wood). If I don't have enough wood I add some aspen shaving pet bedding, which will rot and become edible to the pedes. I top this all off with about 2 inches of crushed dead leaves. I don't use calcium supplements at all, someone else will have to give you any info on that.

I offer supplemental food like fruit/vegetables/dog kibble once a week at the most, and remove uneaten food after about 2 days to prevent mite infestations.
I forgot to ask earlier, but does it have to be Oak leaves/wood? I am not sure if there are any Oak trees in the area (though I can go out tomorrow and see if I can find any), but there are plenty of other kinds of trees!

When I went back to the pet store today to return some of the things I bought I picked up some more aspen bedding while I was there, is there a special way that you recommend preparing this so that it's edible for the babies? Also is that size that aspen bedding is typically shredded to also a good size for any other wood?

---------- Post added 04-14-2014 at 01:22 AM ----------

I STRONGLY suggest that you get some ivory millipedes. They are very fun...much more so than the giants but are much smaller when fully grown so not as impressive. But it will give you opportunity to learn on a forgiving and cheap species before getting a rare and expensive bunch of animals.

My website has my care advice on it.
I will go take a look at your website now :D! In your opinion would it be okay for ivory millipedes to be housed with ABGs? Also I assume you mean Chicobolus spinigerus? That's what I found when I looked up Ivory millipedes.
 

Elytra and Antenna

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Fresh cedar is a milliped biohazard (aged cedar is no problem) while that dish is a drowning hazard. Neither hide nor water dish are needed. Ivories are possibly the easiest to breed but many beginners have trouble with them so as a starter you'd be far better off with the Thai rainbows or albino Narceus from BIC since they rarely die despite moderate abuse. The milliped book is available through amazon and barnes & noble as well as BIC.
 

Cavedweller

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I forgot to ask earlier, but does it have to be Oak leaves/wood? I am not sure if there are any Oak trees in the area (though I can go out tomorrow and see if I can find any), but there are plenty of other kinds of trees!

When I went back to the pet store today to return some of the things I bought I picked up some more aspen bedding while I was there, is there a special way that you recommend preparing this so that it's edible for the babies? Also is that size that aspen bedding is typically shredded to also a good size for any other wood?

---------- Post added 04-14-2014 at 01:22 AM ----------



I will go take a look at your website now :D! In your opinion would it be okay for ivory millipedes to be housed with ABGs? Also I assume you mean Chicobolus spinigerus? That's what I found when I looked up Ivory millipedes.
Any sort of hardwood is ok I think. Just not cedar as Elytra and Antenna said, or any other sort of fresh resinous wood like pine. Wood shavings or sawdust will rot overtime when mixed into the millipede substrate, it's not edible right away though. I don't worry much about the size of collected rotten wood I add, I just break it apart into small pieces with my fingers and mix it in. I also include some small pieces that aren't rotten yet, but will rot and become edible after a while.

Yeah, Chicobolus spinigerus is the one. The only real problem I can think of is that you will pretty much NEVER see your AG Bs if you put them in with a bunch of ivories. I kept my ivories with a giant glossy black pinkleg (another african species that doesn't get quite as big as AGBs) for well over a year without incident. However, I had to separate the female ivory last week since the giant male pinkleg kept trying to mate with her. But that's not a concern with babies of course.

Ivories are possibly the easiest to breed but many beginners have trouble with them so as a starter you'd be far better off with the Thai rainbows or albino Narceus from BIC since they rarely die despite moderate abuse. The milliped book is available through amazon and barnes & noble as well as BIC.
What is it about Ivories that makes them a difficult starter?
 

Elytra and Antenna

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What is it about Ivories that makes them a difficult starter?
I can't say I know firsthand what kills them but I have heard about troubles with Ivories from at least half a dozen people. They are somewhat hardy but not like the two I mentioned.
 

Cavedweller

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I can't say I know firsthand what kills them but I have heard about troubles with Ivories from at least half a dozen people. They are somewhat hardy but not like the two I mentioned.
Wow, I had no idea! I had one die on me shortly after I got it, but I chalked it up to shipping stress. On the other hand I've been reluctant to personally recommend Thai rainbows because all of my adults mysteriously died within a month or two of each other, yet the ~60 babies were fine.
 

SDCPs

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I can't say I know firsthand what kills them but I have heard about troubles with Ivories from at least half a dozen people. They are somewhat hardy but not like the two I mentioned.
I know it. I have had my own ivories die while n. americanus and n. gordanus persisted in bad conditions and even reproduced. I think they are not as cold or low humidity tolerant as the other two since I kept all of them outside during winter here in San Diego. However, they did very well indoors with high humidity and higher temperatures.

This is just an isolated experience, but I would still recommend Ivories (I actually had ebonies which are of the same species) for 2 reasons:

1) They are the friendliest! They were for me constantly out and about while the other 2 I mentioned hid constantly...gordanus seems to be a burrowing species from my limited experience.
2) If the OP is planning on getting AGB pedelings, s/he had better make sure that s/he can keep something less hardy than the hardiest giant millipede I know of...which is N. americanus.
 

pinkpolicebox

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Any sort of hardwood is ok I think. Just not cedar as Elytra and Antenna said, or any other sort of fresh resinous wood like pine. Wood shavings or sawdust will rot overtime when mixed into the millipede substrate, it's not edible right away though. I don't worry much about the size of collected rotten wood I add, I just break it apart into small pieces with my fingers and mix it in. I also include some small pieces that aren't rotten yet, but will rot and become edible after a while.
I'm a little worried that because it takes time for wood shavings to rot I won't have proper food for them to eat when they get here. I walked out to a park I live by to look for hardwood leaves/wood and there was a lot of dead leaves (some dry and some all soaked and muddied up at the edge of the water) and am wondering if it's better to get the dried up leaves or the wet (probably already rotting) ones? Sorry if I'm being a little pedantic now, i'm just getting a little nervous after reading everybody's replies and I want to do everything I can to make sure the babies I get don't die.

Oh and there was a lot of wood debris! There are some beavers living in that park, so it's kind o all over the place haha.

Yeah, Chicobolus spinigerus is the one. The only real problem I can think of is that you will pretty much NEVER see your AG Bs if you put them in with a bunch of ivories. I kept my ivories with a giant glossy black pinkleg (another african species that doesn't get quite as big as AGBs) for well over a year without incident. However, I had to separate the female ivory last week since the giant male pinkleg kept trying to mate with her. But that's not a concern with babies of course.
If I got another species I would most likely be keeping them in separate enclosures for the time being (at least until the ABGs grow a bit).

---------- Post added 04-14-2014 at 10:18 PM ----------

Fresh cedar is a milliped biohazard (aged cedar is no problem) while that dish is a drowning hazard. Neither hide nor water dish are needed. Ivories are possibly the easiest to breed but many beginners have trouble with them so as a starter you'd be far better off with the Thai rainbows or albino Narceus from BIC since they rarely die despite moderate abuse. The milliped book is available through amazon and barnes & noble as well as BIC.
I returned the dish and the hide yesterday afternoon!

And I don't think I'll be breeding (at least on purpose) anytime soon since I'm still a beginner, and I'm hoping that I can do everything right and not put any of them through moderate abuse :(
 

Cavedweller

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It's normal to worry about doing everything right, I still do and I've been doing this for nearly a year and a half!

The wood shavings do take a while to rot, which is why it's best to collect some already rotted wood from outside as well. If you find some half-buried dead branches in a woody area, those are great to use. As long as it's easy to crumble with your fingers its rotted enough. As for leaves, I usually take push away the dry freshly dead leaves on top and collect the more rotten ones underneath, soggy ones near water might work as well but I've never tried it.
 

pinkpolicebox

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It's normal to worry about doing everything right, I still do and I've been doing this for nearly a year and a half!

The wood shavings do take a while to rot, which is why it's best to collect some already rotted wood from outside as well. If you find some half-buried dead branches in a woody area, those are great to use. As long as it's easy to crumble with your fingers its rotted enough. As for leaves, I usually take push away the dry freshly dead leaves on top and collect the more rotten ones underneath, soggy ones near water might work as well but I've never tried it.
If you don't mind taking a look I went outside and took some photos today of the area I was thinking of using to harvest leaves and such.

1964932_10152354787159885_8988120172820198592_n.jpg 10169173_10152354786244885_4152104250916757335_n.jpg

I'm not sure what kind of tree this is, but it seems to be hardwood? And this is what the leaf litter underneath looks like.

10171056_10152354786099885_4074248062900982094_n (1).jpg 10154310_10152354787029885_867254686536049229_n.jpg

Nearby there are also what I believe are willows and beech trees (correct me if I am wrong). Do any of these trees look like they would be suitable?
 

pinkpolicebox

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I also was out at the store a little while ago and found what I believe are Oak trees in the parking lot!

10253848_10152354932539885_3337822161984177384_n.jpg 1922084_10152354932494885_3466527397709886923_n.jpg

There seems to be a good amount of leaf litter too, but I also could see that there were occasional cigarette butts and some garbage (and because it's in a parking lot I worry about the use of pesticides and such by the people who own the lot). The trees in my above reply are in a kind of sanctioned wildlife area so I don't have to worry about that kind of thing for them.

Thoughts? (And like I said before, sorry if I am being a little TOO concerned with details!)
 
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