New T owner - wanting to get into old world Ts - a few concerns

[Kathy]

It's hard to feel threatened by my h. mac when I see him about once every 6 months.....I enjoy not having to worry about the urticating hairs.

 

[leoferus]

ATTN: I do not handle my tarantulas. The only interaction I have with them is for rehousing, breeding, shipping, and receiving. Keep this in mind as you read this. I do not endorse handling tarantulas. I feel that more harm than good can result from this.

I am a snake owner that turned to tarantulas one day simply because of my fascination for arachnids. I saw a P. lugardi (sold to me as a H. maculata) and I had to have it. When I got it home, I did a ton of research and found that I needed to be careful with this spider. So I was. I read about rehousing techniques and found one that I was comfortable with. I read and watched videos of people unpacking tarantulas. I watched some videos of what not to do, etc. When I rehoused it my heart stopped many times but I was ready for what was happening.

I expected the thing to teleport... it did. I expected the T to bolt out of the enclosure... it did. I stayed calm and still while it crawled over my hand and onto the ground although my heart was about to pop. No bite. Why? Perhaps some luck but mostly education. I was ready for what was possible with the species. I'm lucky that the P. lugardi decided to act like an H. mac! That didn't slow me down. I knew that escape is possible with that species. I was ready and knew what to do. The next week I purchased a G. rosea, Lasiodora sp, and a P. nigricolor. Again, I researched them all and I knew what to expect. Soon there after I picked up my H. lividum, an OBT, and an A. avicularia. Last week I picked up a breeding pair of T. blondi.

I believe someone else made the parallel with snake handling experience. I can pick up almost any snake so long as I know what kind it is... except venomous. Although there are some fundamental differences, the Tarantula world has it's snake equivalents. My corn snakes compare to the Avicularias in tolerance. The T. blondi would definitely be more close to resembling my Burmese Python. The G. rosea's temperament resembles my Ball Python's temperament. You get the point. Having made the point above I feel the need to point out a caveat. Although the average genus and/or species temperament of a snake or tarantula is considered docile or defensive there exist individuals in each species that do not exemplify the average. The average Blood Python is supposed to be ill tempered and/or tank defensive at best. A friend of mine owns one that behaves more like a Ball Python. My Burmese is a kitten. My Kenyan sand boa is a monster. All of my other snakes fall within the expected average temperament for the genus and/or species.

What am I getting at? You may encounter a defensive G. rosea (rare). You may encounter a temperate H. lividum (rare). My point is the same as many others have posted. Educate yourself. Read about what to expect from the genus/species you're considering and if you're comfortable with the worst case scenarios then acquire a specimen. Once you have it home you should observe it. Learn from it. I agree with those that suggest starting with slings. I started with adults and I've had over a dozen heart attacks as a result. Now I try to get slings whenever possible. They are much easier to manage. In the snake world, "babies" allow us the opportunity to condition the animal for human contact. No such thing is possible with tarantulas. So getting a sling does not mean you'll be able to raise it to be docile. It will be how it will be. Observe them and learn their character traits and work within those constraints.

I'm sorry for rambling on... I just think that it's not absolutely necessary that an individual start with NW Ts and then graduate to OW. I do agree that it is the more progressive method. I also agree that if an individual self educates well enough, it is possible to properly keep what many consider fast/defensive species.

Read a lot, be very curious. Try to figure out what legitimate sources say about the species you're considering, many sites have very general and ambiguous, sometimes erroneous information. Be careful about what you're reading. Read bite reports. Read about how to treat bites. Read about how to care for your tarantula in the event that you damage it by dropping and/or some other injury it might encounter. Respect these arachnids and learn from them. They fascinate me on a daily basis.

That's all for now. Good luck!

 

[Kathy]

leoforus, that was really interesting to read! I like your comparisons and suggestions. Very nice!

 

[Kreatz]

ATTN: I do not handle my tarantulas. The only interaction I have with them is for rehousing, breeding, shipping, and receiving. Keep this in mind as you read this. I do not endorse handling tarantulas. I feel that more harm than good can result from this.

I am a snake owner that turned to tarantulas one day simply because of my fascination for arachnids. I saw a P. lugardi (sold to me as a H. maculata) and I had to have it. When I got it home, I did a ton of research and found that I needed to be careful with this spider. So I was. I read about rehousing techniques and found one that I was comfortable with. I read and watched videos of people unpacking tarantulas. I watched some videos of what not to do, etc. When I rehoused it my heart stopped many times but I was ready for what was happening.

I expected the thing to teleport... it did. I expected the T to bolt out of the enclosure... it did. I stayed calm and still while it crawled over my hand and onto the ground although my heart was about to pop. No bite. Why? Perhaps some luck but mostly education. I was ready for what was possible with the species. I'm lucky that the P. lugardi decided to act like an H. mac! That didn't slow me down. I knew that escape is possible with that species. I was ready and knew what to do. The next week I purchased a G. rosea, Lasiodora sp, and a P. nigricolor. Again, I researched them all and I knew what to expect. Soon there after I picked up my H. lividum, an OBT, and an A. avicularia. Last week I picked up a breeding pair of T. blondi.

I believe someone else made the parallel with snake handling experience. I can pick up almost any snake so long as I know what kind it is... except venomous. Although there are some fundamental differences, the Tarantula world has it's snake equivalents. My corn snakes compare to the Avicularias in tolerance. The T. blondi would definitely be more close to resembling my Burmese Python. The G. rosea's temperament resembles my Ball Python's temperament. You get the point. Having made the point above I feel the need to point out a caveat. Although the average genus and/or species temperament of a snake or tarantula is considered docile or defensive there exist individuals in each species that do not exemplify the average. The average Blood Python is supposed to be ill tempered and/or tank defensive at best. A friend of mine owns one that behaves more like a Ball Python. My Burmese is a kitten. My Kenyan sand boa is a monster. All of my other snakes fall within the expected average temperament for the genus and/or species.

What am I getting at? You may encounter a defensive G. rosea (rare). You may encounter a temperate H. lividum (rare). My point is the same as many others have posted. Educate yourself. Read about what to expect from the genus/species you're considering and if you're comfortable with the worst case scenarios then acquire a specimen. Once you have it home you should observe it. Learn from it. I agree with those that suggest starting with slings. I started with adults and I've had over a dozen heart attacks as a result. Now I try to get slings whenever possible. They are much easier to manage. In the snake world, "babies" allow us the opportunity to condition the animal for human contact. No such thing is possible with tarantulas. So getting a sling does not mean you'll be able to raise it to be docile. It will be how it will be. Observe them and learn their character traits and work within those constraints.

I'm sorry for rambling on... I just think that it's not absolutely necessary that an individual start with NW Ts and then graduate to OW. I do agree that it is the more progressive method. I also agree that if an individual self educates well enough, it is possible to properly keep what many consider fast/defensive species.

Read a lot, be very curious. Try to figure out what legitimate sources say about the species you're considering, many sites have very general and ambiguous, sometimes erroneous information. Be careful about what you're reading. Read bite reports. Read about how to treat bites. Read about how to care for your tarantula in the event that you damage it by dropping and/or some other injury it might encounter. Respect these arachnids and learn from them. They fascinate me on a daily basis.

That's all for now. Good luck!

Well said!!! :worship::worship:

as a beginner i started with C.fimbriatus before going to docile tarantula like B.albo G.rosea

 

[killy]

ATTN: I do not handle my tarantulas. ... I do not endorse handling tarantulas. I feel that more harm than good can result from this.

In the snake world, "babies" allow us the opportunity to condition the animal for human contact. No such thing is possible with tarantulas. So getting a sling does not mean you'll be able to raise it to be docile.

Read a lot, be very curious. Read bite reports. Read about how to treat bites. Read about how to care for your tarantula in the event that you damage it by dropping and/or some other injury it might encounter. Respect these arachnids and learn from them.

For every one who discourages handling, you'll find one that encourage it. Handling seems to be the single biggest point of contention on this forum - I'm not looking for a debate, but everybody's educated opinion has validity, so I would like to offer a rebuttal viewpoint here.

I do handle my tarantulas, I heartily endorse handling, and I believe that, when done correctly and/or under supervision, handling can foster a deeper appreciation and respect for these highly misunderstood creatures.

I've read so many accounts of handlers that conditioned their NW (not OW)tarantulas from a young age to accept human contact that I believe that it absolutely IS possible, so getting a sling, and handling frequently, certainly does increase the odds of great handling experiences.

My advice is to search this forum for discussions about the proper way to handle tarantulas and to avoid accidents. Ts have more to fear from us than we from them.

... I stayed calm and still while it crawled over my hand ... No bite. Why?

Invert these sentences to read "No bite. Why? I stayed calm and still while it crawled over my hand ..." and you have answered your own question! Don't give your T a reason to bite (any more than you would give your dog or cat a reason) and it won't! Don't pick it up, let it decide to hitch the ride. That's been my experience, and I don't mean to say that I've been doing it a long time compared to some(2 years +) but it's a formula that works.

(That said, I won't be handling my A genic anymore - too itchy - and I'm still not gonna get anywhere near my demon-seed vagans! )

 

[BigJ999]

I keep mostly OW T's and i can say they aren't as bad as they are made out to be not that i would want to get bitten by one lol. But i just respect the animal i had a brown recluse crawl on me once and it didn't bite me because i didn't bother it Although i wouldn't recommend anyone doing that lol. And that happend when one got into my bed one time i would never handel a spider that toxic on purpose.

 

[leoferus]

killy;

I am a logical man. I must, therefore, admit that I am swayed by your argument. I do believe that handling can be a tool utilized in the fostering of better understanding of these creatures. I have ignored my own experience with snakes and failed to apply it to tarantulas. I have converted many of my coworkers into snake appreciators simply because I have been able to have them make the connection with the "death machines" and realize that they are just as docile if not more so than their cats and dogs. There are some fundamental differences between snakes and tarantulas but these are negligible. Most of these differences can only amount to personal beliefs and/or preferences. Therefore, I will simply conclude as you have put it that as long as handling is performed by an educated individual in a controlled environment it is acceptable.

However, it still remains my opinion that tarantulas are more likely to be damaged by handling and the dangers inherent with having them outside of their enclosures more so than other snakes. Of course, one can control the dangerous variables and almost remove them all. If that is possible, then the balance tips toward the tarantula being more of a danger to the handler. This is no different in the snake world for when my Burmese reaches maturity she will become an inherent danger to me at fourteen or sixteen feet. Estela will definitely consider me a prey item and it would be foolish of me to handle her without assistance.

I thank you for your rebuttal. By presenting our arguments in well thought out responses like yours we can help each other learn about tarantulas and other animals while expanding our appreciation for them. I do believe that it is a good idea for individuals keeping any type of animal should be able to handle them in the event that the need arises. Health issues, injuries, etc., may make it necessary to come into close contact with these arachnids. Therefore, it would be best if the keeper already have some idea as to how to handle the spider to ensure the safety of both the pet and the keeper. If no such knowledge is had, then it would be the case that the spider and/or keeper can be damaged. This is where I would agree with many here that it is easier to become familiar with tarantula behavior via the slower more temperate species but it is not absolutely necessary.

"A man's (or woman) gotta know his (or her) limitations." - Clint Eastwood

I believe that the above is the greatest limiting factor. I also believe that this is the underlying message in most responses to the OPs question even if the responses seem to be from different sides of the fence. Gauge your limitations, what you are comfortable with, against your knowledge or lack thereof and pick the species that fits the bill. Knowledge builds confidence. Confidence will allow you to handle stressful situations better.

Sincerely,

Ricardo

P.S. Stay thirsty and curious!

 

[paassatt]

For clarification's sake, is the "g" in the species name pronounced with a soft g, as in "gymnasium" or a hard g, as in "going"? i.e. H. gigas, L. klugi. Assuming the pronunciation isn't always hard or always soft, is there a way to be sure of the pronunciation?

 

[Pociemon]

I do handle my tarantulas, I heartily endorse handling, and I believe that, when done correctly and/or under supervision, handling can foster a deeper appreciation and respect for these highly misunderstood creatures.

I've read so many accounts of handlers that conditioned their NW (not OW)tarantulas from a young age to accept human contact that I believe that it absolutely IS possible, so getting a sling, and handling frequently, certainly does increase the odds of great handling experiences.

My advice is to search this forum for discussions about the proper way to handle tarantulas and to avoid accidents. Ts have more to fear from us than we from them.

Well i like your argument. T´s can to some extent be conditioned. I have 1 poecilotheria metallica female and 1 female poecilotheria rufilata who i have handled since sling stage, and actually not often, but just here and there. Both are as adults calm when handled, just gets up on the hand, and sit still, not running as they did in the beginning. And i do feel closer to my T´s while doing it. people ask me then, why do you use an OW T for that, and not a more calm NW! Easy answer, i cant stand the hairs, so for me it was a stop og not decision. Needless to say i continued, but as stated earlyer, i dont do it that much really, just when the mood is there.

 

[Leviticus]

I would agree with many of the posts on here is regards to becoming more comfortable. My story about how I started with tarantulas is different than almost 95% of all t owners. I didn't start with G. rosea or B. smithi. I was working at a pet shop and we had a Pterinochilus murinus come in. The vivid orange and starburst pattern sold me right then and there and I took it home that night. After about a week of not seeing it I made a major beginners mistake and lifted it burrow to get a good look at it so I could appreciate it. Within a second it had gone up my arm down my body and onto the wall. It took me a while to get it back into its enlosure. After that I was very careful about interaction with it.

One thing I have learned with tarantulas is that confidence is so important(confidence not cockiness). If you go into a rehousing and are skittish and nervous it most likely won't turn out well. You need to move with conviction and not pull back when the spider does what it is meant to do. Stay cool and gain experience, there are so many great species waiting out there.

Oh and a quick side note, while I love OW I still have a great appreciation for many NW species and I doubt that will ever change much.

 

[killy]

I do believe that it is a good idea for individuals keeping any type of animal should be able to handle them in the event that the need arises. Health issues, injuries, etc., may make it necessary to come into close contact with these arachnids. Therefore, it would be best if the keeper already have some idea as to how to handle the spider to ensure the safety of both the pet and the keeper. If no such knowledge is had, then it would be the case that the spider and/or keeper can be damaged.

Ricardo, this is one of the best, if not THE best, argument in favor of handling that I have yet seen! And from someone who doesn't endorse handling, yet! It's an angle I never really thought about, but it makes all the sense in the world. Thank YOU.

(Are you sure you're not a closet handler? )

 

[killy]

Well i like your argument. T´s can to some extent be conditioned. I have 1 poecilotheria metallica female and 1 female poecilotheria rufilata who i have handled since sling stage, and actually not often, but just here and there. Both are as adults calm when handled, just gets up on the hand, and sit still, not running as they did in the beginning. And i do feel closer to my T´s while doing it. people ask me then, why do you use an OW T for that, and not a more calm NW! Easy answer, i cant stand the hairs, so for me it was a stop og not decision. Needless to say i continued, but as stated earlyer, i dont do it that much really, just when the mood is there.

So there you have it folks! Anecdotal evidence that the system works even with OWs!

Thanks Thomas. :worship:

 

[leoferus]

Ricardo, this is one of the best, if not THE best, argument in favor of handling that I have yet seen! And from someone who doesn't endorse handling, yet! It's an angle I never really thought about, but it makes all the sense in the world. Thank YOU.

(Are you sure you're not a closet handler? )

I am a logical man. I can admit being wrong. I find nothing negative with being corrected. Instead, I find that I grow whenever someone makes a counter argument that allows me to expand my knowledge base. I am a conditional supporter of handling. I am all for supporting aspects of the argument you've made but I kindly ask you not to utilize my argument as a blanket. I do appreciate that you included the quote which utilizes the examples of health or injury as some of the reasons why handling and the practice thereof should be considered and practiced by keepers. Of course, you may not agree with my conditions. But omitting that I object to certain handling practices makes it seem as though I now subscribe to the idea that any form of handling is okay. That is not the message I would like to endorse. Again, I supported your argument because of the fact that you mentioned that handling should occur in a controlled environment with proper supervision. If I were to have to simplify my argument I would say that it must read as follows:

If absolutely necessary or for educational purposes, handling should be performed in a controlled environment by able and instructed individuals with proper supervision (if available). Handling should be a practiced for the goal of ensuring the well-being of the animal and the keeper.

I am not anyone's mom or dad here. The above are not guidelines I am imposing on the forum members or arachnophiles as a group. They are the guidelines that I've imposed upon myself and to which I invite others who share my views. No more; no less.

I still believe that handling tarantulas puts the animal and the keeper at risk. I also still believe that these animals are safer in their enclosures. However, I do agree with the point that in order to be a well rounded keeper that is able to respond to most situations handling should be understood and practiced to some degree.

Am I a closet handler?

Will I ever handle my tarantulas for entertainment purposes? Well, I would not be logical in saying never. I can, however, say it is highly unlikely. Would my answer have been different ten years ago? Probably. These days, I tend to go with statistics more than bravado. And please, do not think that I am implying that anyone that handles tarantulas for the enjoyment of the act do it simply because of misdirected bravery. I'm saying that bravado would have been my vehicle. I'm the guy on the mountain bike going a little to fast or taking the hill that's a bit too steep... I'm the guy that kayaks out of the bay into the ocean... I don't mind broken bones or sprains. But for some reason I cannot stand it when an animal is hurt as a result of my actions.

Stay curious.

 

[killy]

I kindly ask you not to utilize my argument as a blanket.

Whoa, there, Ricardo - I'm not quite sure I catch your meaning, but please understand that I was thanking you for providing me with a new insight into the value of handling, from a heretofore unconsidered optic on my part: the 'human-conditioning' aspect - that's all - to each his own, the saying goes, and I've learned something from this - I assure you I'm not using your argument as a blanket (at least, I don't think I am ...:?)

Am I a closet handler?

I see that my attempt at good-natured humor backfired on me here. I was kidding, Ricardo, and I apologetically withdraw the question. I do appreciate your input. Handling is a highly divisive, polarizing subject on this forum, and I'm glad we were able to exchange our thoughts and ideas in the manner that we did. As I said, I learned a great deal through our discussion.

All the best!

K

 

[T o m]

TBH i'd say buy whatever you want except maybe a pokie as they are stupidly fast as you've probably already been told My 2nd T was a H.lividum and although the internet says otherwise i find it to be a very good T she sits in her burrow at all times whilst im carrying out enclosure maintenance and will only attack if you get too close, i would never handle her or get too close but if you treat the T with enough respect im sure you'll get on fine whatever specimen you choose

Also you must think about how fast/slow your reactions are, getting your hand out of the way a millisecond faster could be the difference between getting tagged or not

 

[darkavenger]

ow t's

my first t was a very slow and docile specimin that was a very good intro to keeping tarantulas, but the interest that my sweet little T set aflame sent me on a search for my next one. the more i looked and researched the more i realized that all the tarantulas that really caught my attention were the highly venomous, fast moving, incredibly gorgeous ones. the old worlds. i held off on getting one for a number of factors, but mainly so my girlfriend could sleep at night. the thing you have to take into account is not only how you feel about it but how the people you live with and surround yourself with feel about it. and also if you are to wanna take a vacation, do you know anyone you would trust or anyone who would be even willing to take care of your 'deadly spiders' in your stead while your away? that being said, i quickly decidied that it didnt matter anymore and went ahead and got my second t. a mature female pterinochilus murinus now when i asked around for peoples opinions on this particular species and all the others that i was stricken by they tried to point me in a different direction to get a bunch of Ts i didnt want. they felt that having only had one harmless spider didnt qualify me to make a leap up the ladder so to speak to the ow's. at some point you realize the only person who can make the call on if your ready or not is you. so i went out and found most of the species i had been persuing and took the leap and i now own 9 differnt ow species and that # will grow. if you are an inteligent person and you do your homwork you will be fine. every old world i bought i reserched for months befor i got it and knew exactly what i was in for when it got put into my hands. dont just go out and buy something you have no idea what it is just because it has really bright colors and intricate patterns and it looks cool...cause chances are its got a nasty bite. my suggestion for intro to ow's is the Psalmopoeus genus cause although they r really really fast from sling and still pack a bad bite it doesnt pack nearly as bad a wallop as pokie, haplo or baboon venom, and they are more on the nervouse side than aggressive side like the baboons or haplo's. think about it like this...there have never been any deaths from tarantula bites even from the ones with the worst reps. if you get bitten by a tarantula it will be your fault, period. if you educate yourself and equip yourself with the proper tools and knowledge, dont take unnesesary risks with your Ts, and respect the spiders you care for then you will have many years of joy in this hobby

 

[brian abrams]

OW T's

Are you ready for them? If you desire them, you probably are. You accept the fact that they are fast, aggressive spiders that can put you in a WORLD OF PAIN if you get tagged. However, you may prefer the previous suggestion of getting som experience with other more forgiving NW sp. Such as the SPEED of P Irminia or Cambridgei. The aggressive, but much slower P Cancerides (compared to OBT's), etc. After you gain some experience with these spiders, you can probably gauge the speed and aggression of most of the more potent OW species.

 

[Sodaboy1978]

Get a P. Ornata Sling. Let it grow, then re home it in a larger container. You will do ok. I have very limited experience and just getting T's that I like after looking up care sheets and stuff. P. Oranta is lightning quick I had to have my wife help me re house the T. So I say yeah get a NW but if re homing get an extra pair of hands.