New Snakes And Pics!

Deathreaver

Arachnosquire
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Apr 4, 2003
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Hey ya'll,
Today was the dixie reptile show here in alabama, and I got myself two snakes, a normal corn, and a greybaned king (from phillip)

Here is the my new Female corn, Scarlet:
 

Deathreaver

Arachnosquire
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Here is my male grey band, fiesty and fast, he bit me the first time I picked him up, and he bit me again when I cleaned his water dish. I guess he just likes me. ;P (he probably bit b/c it was his feeding time) I like him.
 

BigSam

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Mar 15, 2003
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Nice snakes Deathreaver I really like them. When that grey band bit you did it hurt?? At the that retile show how much did them snakes cost. I'm going to an Arizona reptile show the 26 and 27 and I want to come back with another snake. How much money should I bring. I'm thinking 275 american dollars. I think that will cover it.
Nice snakes


Sam
 

Phillip

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actually...

The Greyband is a she. Can't blame ya for getting it switched around though as you were looking at a bunch of snakes. :)

And yes the biting was probably due to the fact that it gets fed on Saturdays or rather has been fed then so it is thinking it's time. She's got a pretty strong feeding response.

Phil
 

Deathreaver

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The Corn was 20$ and the grey band was 60$. Hey phil, got a question, I fed the grey band on sat, and around 3 today he vomited the pinky back up, was this just b/c he was stressed, and should I try to feed him again tomorrow.
 

Phillip

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I would have to say yes...

Seeing as how I never had it regurge. If not stress then perhaps the temp is off. I kept it at a constant 83ish. Lower is ok but it has become acclimated to that temp so perhaps the combination of the temp change and the handling which it got hardly any of from me stressed it. Wait a few days and try again and you should have no problem. Another thing is they don't take well to being handled after eating so when you feed it leave it be for a day or two.

Phil
 

Bry

Arachnodemon
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Mar 22, 2003
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Well, you might not listen to me as I've not been around here as long as other members. But, I feel I need to say something. The regurge was probably due to stress or temps being too low. When a snake regurges, they lose a lot of their gut flora, and dehydrate easily. Feeding again too soon will most likely cause a regurge and dehydrate them further. I suggest you wait two weeks before feeding to allow them to replenish their gut flora. Be sure to keep them at proper temps and humidity, especially after feeding. In the meantime, I would mix Pedialyte (formulated drink for infants and toddlers) in the water. This will help rehydrate them and replenish their gut flora also. Good luck.

Bry
 

Deathreaver

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Thanks for the advice,
I normally keep my room in the low 80's high 70's, but sometimes at night it will get in the 60's in my home, so I'll keep an eye on the temps. As for handleing, pategirl told me that you don't need to handle them until a few hours after feeding, so I left them both in the empty deli cups for around 2 or 3 hours yesterday after feeding, but I am pretty sure it was stress. I handled her alot on the way home from the show, and I was adjusting her new home a lil with her in it after feeding (fed her after we got home) I'll be a lil more careful. But I don't think I am doing to horribly bad for a first time have legless friends in the house as pets (though I have been know to feed wild snakes out side to keep them near the house, and handle them a lil ;P ) Just to tell you how the corn is she ate her two pinkys and when I tried to give the king her second, after about an hour i gave the pinky to the corn to, so I guess she was hungery cause she took them both in nothing flat. I did put a larger water bowl in both cases too.
Thanks,
DPS
 

Deathreaver

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ps >I ment to say that I didn't handle her much after feeding (just putting her back into her home, and moving her to the side of the tank so i could clean water dish and stuff) yesterday (but my sister might of while i wasn't looking)
 

Baphomet

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Feb 22, 2003
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Deathreaver,

Get those snakes off that potting soil!

Grey Bands Lampropeltis alterna are NOT moisture-loving snakes, and potting soil (especially that styrofoam/pearlite) can cause impactions if swallowed.

Potting soil is a MAJOR bacteria-farm as well. If too moist, lethal levels of bacteria (resulting from feces) can occur...as well as scale rot due to the dampness.

Go with either Aspen bedding (never pine or cedar), CareFresh, Reptile Bark...even plain ol' paper-towels.

As far as regurging goes, I am sure it was stress related, however, temps in the 60's are much too cool for your Grey Band in the evening...the Corn will do ok with it, but the Grey Band will not.

You will find one thing out about Alterna...they are fussy in regards to thier husbandry and environment.

...Nice lookin' "Blairs" though! :)
 
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Bry

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Mar 22, 2003
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Oh wow, I can't believe I overlooked the substrate aspect. Yes, definitely get them off that substrate as soon as possible. They are a desert species. That substrate really isn't appropriate for any snakes that I know of, even the humidity-loving species. Go with the substrates that Baphomet recommended. Sand isn't a good choice, if that's what you're thinking. The way you described the temps, I have to wonder, do you use a heating pad or a dome light on one side of the tank? One or both is a necessity for all snakes, especially for a desert species. Read some caresheets on temperature and humidity requirements for these snakes. Keep handling to a minimum shortly after feeding, which means transferring snake from feeding tub to its cage. Otherwise, don't handle your snake at all for at least 48 hours after feeding to give them a chance to digest. This isn't intended to flame anyone. I'm just looking out for the best interest of your alternas. :)

Bry
 

atavuss

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Originally posted by Baphomet
Deathreaver,

Get those snakes off that potting soil!

Grey Bands Lampropeltis alterna are NOT moisture-loving snakes, and potting soil (especially that styrofoam/pearlite) can cause impactions if swallowed.

Potting soil is a MAJOR bacteria-farm as well. If too moist, lethal levels of bacteria (resulting from feces) can occur...as well as scale rot due to the dampness.

Go with either Aspen bedding (never pine or cedar), CareFresh, Reptile Bark...even plain ol' paper-towels.

I have had good results with calci-sand and for my messy herps I have been using a new product, it is a pelleted aspen..........smells nice, absorbs odors and dries feces up for easy spot removal, and most importantly IMO, very low dust compared to other herp substrates.
It is my feeling to not handle a snake for at least a day, if not several days after they have been fed to prevent them from regurgitating their food items. I have never had a problem with any of my snakes regurgitating.
also, to expand on the paper toweling for substrate I use it during the quarintine period (minimum of 30 days, usually 60 days) to moniter for mites, it makes it easy to check their feces for any problems too.
I use paper toweling exclusively for my frogs as it is easier to clean up, does not look as nice as a planted terrarium though.
Ed
 

Phillip

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Aug 19, 2002
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dispelling some myths...

I do fully agree that the potting soil needs to go. Any of the previously mentioned substrates would be far better. A couple of statements are however incorrect. 1st off Greybands are not fussy or particular about their environment at all. The only fussy thing about them is that when newly hatched some prefer lizards to mice and can be problematic to switch over. As far as temps for them go the same temps that work for corns work fine for Greybands as well. Yes they come from a more desert environment but the environment they come from also dips down pretty low in the evenings. Now for a young one and more importantly a recently fed one temps hitting the 60s are indeed too low but a constant 80 to 85 is perfect for them and will never cause a problem at all. Also the blanket statement of all snakes need a heat lamp and or heat rock is wrong. If you are keeping your house cool then yes it is needed for some species but many colubrids actually prefer the mid 70s to low 80s and some like mountain kings and mandarins will perish if kept in the high 80s. Corns are another snake that does not need heat if kept at the 80 degree and up range. Gophers are the same way as are Hognose. I have been keeping and breeding colubrids succesfully for around 15 years now and know full well of what I speak on the subject. During this time I have learned not only from my own experiences but from chatting regularily with several breeders with many more years in it than myself like Applegate, Hollister and many others. They don't heat their Greybands either and do very well with them. I do have to agree though that if the house is dipping below the high 70s then yes put a heat pad under a portion of the enclosure to insure adequate digesting temps and please do lose the soil. :)

Phil
 

Bry

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Also the blanket statement of all snakes need a heat lamp and or heat rock is wrong. If you are keeping your house cool then yes it is needed for some species but many colubrids actually prefer the mid 70s to low 80s and some like mountain kings and mandarins will perish if kept in the high 80s.
I do not doubt your experience or connections with big-name breeders. But, I have to say, I disagree with you on the point above. While I do agree that each species has their own requirements, and that some species need more heat than others. I never said that snakes need heat rocks, because they do not, at all costs. I've heard of too many instances where snakes have burned themselves on them. Snakes need some kind of thermal gradient to regulate body temperature. In the wild, snakes utilize sunlight, shade, and water to regulate their body temperature. For species with lower temperature needs, this can be achieved with low wattage bulbs. There are 15 watt and 7 1/2 watt bulbs that will fit in a regular light socket. This may not sound like much, but snakes do need the gradient. That is not a myth.

Bry
 
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Deathreaver

Arachnosquire
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Apr 4, 2003
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Ok,
First thing first, I do use a basic desk lamp and a heat produceing bulb for heat during the day to keep the snakes in the 80's and high 70's. I'm not sure that I agree with the getting rid of the poting soil, though I know it is not the best. I am some what of a clean freak, and I know that i'll change the substrate once every other week, if not more often. I only use the potting soil b/c it is really cheat and both of the snake seem happy with it. The corn like to borrow into the soft soil, and so does the greyband. I don't think that sand would be good for my situation mainly b/c that sand hold heat, and witha lamp warming the snakes home, it could actually cause burns like the heat rocks. I am a college student and most of the day and night I am at class, so I am not home to turn off the lamp, and I can't afford a timer for it yet. I will keep looking for a better substrate, but for now I think for how small the snakes are and the temp of my home, that potting soil is idea for me.
 

Phillip

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Bry

While I will give you that having a thermal gradient never hurts as well as you not having mentioned heat rocks I have to say this. Disagree all you want but you will still be wrong. Not trying to start any crap or talk down to anyone just pointing out that I have bred several colubrid species through the years and guess what... up until this year no heat. That's right last year I had nearly 100% hatch rate on my corns and a full 100% on the gophers with no heat whatsoever. Snakes do not reproduce if conditions are not right and they dont hatch out 100% unless they are optimal. This happened in an office that never topped 80 with no heat pad or lights whatsoever. With boas and pythons the need for heat is certainly there but with many colubrids it is greatly over emphasised. As I said before try keeping some of the more delicate species like the kings from higher elevations with a heat lamp and what you wind up with is dead snakes. How do I know this? Because I have done it not because I read about it somewhere. Again not trying to rip ya just trying to point out that experience will teach you that the majority of north american colubrids do fantastic in room temps or just a tad higher ( depends on how you keep your room ) and they have no digestion problems when kept at 80.

Phil
 
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Deathreaver

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Thanks again phil,
I've got my tank to be balenced around 84 today. by using the lamp. and I am gona try to kkep it around 80 to night, I 'm gona yurn off my ac to see if it will stay a lil more warm, and that way I won' t need the lamp tomorrow. Plus I am gona try to find something to use for a substrate. I didn't mean to come across stuborn. sorry. but thanks!

peace dps
 

Phillip

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I would still change the substrate...

Not to burst your bubble but the point about changing the substrate is a valid one. The reasons being chance ( although small ) of impaction if eaten and regardless of how clean you try to keep it potting soil harbors bacteria far better than bark or newspaper do. Snake waste is usually loaded with microscopic nasties that tend to dry up and become harmless on bark substrate or newspaper rather quickly where the extra dampness and natural composition of soil cause it to flourish and multiply. Simply put even if it doesn't look bad it can turn bad in a hurry. If the concern is for something they can burrow in then aspen bedding works great as it is stringy and clings together forming burrows as they move through it. They can also burrow under any other bark very easily and will be quite content to do so.

Phil
 

Deathreaver

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I think I fixed it....

MMK, Let try this one more time.
After my 7:00 Pre cal class, I went and got "Critter Care" bedding, and also gave them larger tanks, and placed them near my electronics in my room (to keep them warm during the night and day). I think this should fix all the problems, and I'll still probably clean their tanks often (like i to my aquariums) to prevent illness, and bacteria. It there any other thing I need to worry about?????
 

Phillip

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that should do it...

Good for you changing the substrate. Truth is what you have switched to will be far easier to keep clean and I think you'll like it better after you've used it a while. The only other thing which has already been covered is to give it a few days before feeding again as regurging really stresses them out and don't handle for a while after feeding. Usually when I feed small ones I put them in whatever I'm feeding them in with the mice and leave them in till the next day when I get home so they are left totally alone for nearly 24 hours. You don't have to go to that extreme but it cuts down on the regurge problem with species that are prone to do so when handled after feeding. I honestly don't suspect that this one will give you any more trouble as the only reason I can see for it happening in the 1st place is that I never handled it except to feed it and you handled it quite a bit after buying it which probably freaked it out. Get her out and handle her when she has had a few days to digest and the lump is gone and after a short while she will calm down considerably. Also as with most all small colubrids they tend to lose the squirmy behavior once they get around the 1 and 1/2 to 2 foot size and they start to get over the feeling that everything is out to kill and eat them.

Phil
 
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