New school and Old school hobbyists why the divide in some places?

[CommanderBacon]

I don't understand how you can accuse this forum of gatekeeping information when it is literally a huge online encyclopedia of feedback from thousands of keepers for the last two decades. And, with the exception of a couple of off topic sub-forums, you don't even have to be a member here to have access to all of it.
I fail to see how anyone is gatekeeping anything on this forum.

It’s not the whole forum, and definitely not you. You’ve been one of the kindest and most helpful people on here, imo. It’s mostly a handful of individuals, but I’ve even seen moderators do it. Tom Moran has made the same observation.

I’m not going to call those people out in this thread (although I have in others), but the behavior is definitely present. The people who mentored me into the hobby still won’t post here because of it. What does that tell you about the perception of this forum?

When you have information and you deliver it in an abusive or rude way, jumping to conclusions and accusing the keeper of incompetence or even straight up malfeasance, the person is just simply not going to listen because they feel attacked. Others will see that interaction and not post (many other people have said this same thing in this thread). This is gatekeeping behavior.

 

[Rigor Mortis]

I have to admit when I was lurking on the forums right before I got my first T I was somewhat intimidated by some of the behaviour I saw directed at new keepers. But my anxieties over keeping my new spider prevailed so I made an account and got over it. I was guilty of being that newbie who made a thread specifically for my spider and my questions, despite the fact that all of my questions were already answered by the beginner threads. I knew that, and in reality I had nothing to worry about. The new keeper anxiety is very strong in most people and it seems to quell worries much quicker if a personal response is given rather than reading it in a sticky. Having said alllll of that, I do think that a lot of new keepers just take things personally. It's easy to read the tone of a typed message as being rude or placating when typically that's not the case. If it's a generational issue, then it's the generational issue of older folks typing the way they type, and younger people interpreting it wrong. I don't think it's really an "old v. new keeper" thing.

 

[Andrea82]

Oh gosh... This thread is devolving into the hundreds of others that exist on this topic.
New people getting offended by the old people, old people getting offended by the fact that the new people are offended because of the old people.

This forum pretty bad when I joined, and I would consider the posts of @CommanderBacon to be absolute truth. But now? I can get the frustration about sarcastic or some snide remarks, gatekeeping? Where is information being withheld just for the heck of it? What do you consider gatekeeping? If someone refers to a sticky instead of typing another lengthy post about the myriad causes for a beginner species sling to hide, is that gatekeeping? In my book, it is not. Referring someone to do their own research isn't gatekeeping, it is helping that person to find and retain information on their own.

Basic information should be acquired before the animal, not the other way around, despite the maddening trend that points people the wrong way.

 

[Vanessa]

I’m not going to call those people out in this thread (although I have in others), but the behavior is definitely present. The people who mentored me into the hobby still won’t post here because of it. What does that tell you about the perception of this forum?

I know exactly who you're referring to and I am 100% on board with you that the behaviour exhibited is not only annoying and unnecessary, but ends up being detrimental to your animals. Unfortunately, the people who we're referring to would argue until they're blue in the face that their behaviour is not detrimental, but it absolutely is.
So, having determined that those members are not going to provide me with information that I consider helpful and interesting, but also that their contribution is likely going to end up being a detriment to my animals, I made the best decision for both myself and my animals... I block them. I would suggest that other people do as well, since it makes my time here very much more pleasant and productive and I can more easily focus on the responses from other members.

 

[Brachyfan]

Looking at this thread I wish the poll was different. I have never considered a rude response as a reason to not ask a question. In fact it's the exact opposite. I would not answer a question if I knew the recipient was going to be nasty. Why would I? You aren't doing me a favor asking a question... I'm doing you a favor answering it. I will not name names but there is a thread that has been going on for a while now about a species that is known for "double tapping". This keeper is very defensive about advice and comes across as very rude. Guess what? I ain't gonna lift a finger to help that person. Why would I? If they get bit that's their problem. Not mine. And they will end up in the hospital too. And I honestly would laugh!

As for gatekeeping thats possibly the dumbest thing I have heard on this forum. How do you gatekeep a forum with thousands of posts? I can't see someone saying " this is a noob! I will not share substrate secrets with them cause they haven't earned their wings!" Gimme a break. And hurting someones fee fee's most certainly isn't gatekeeping. Feelings have nothing to do with it. Do a site search and find the information. Its all posted and indexed.

The old timers get frustrated answering questions that are all answered in the beginners sticky. I am still a noob but I will answer the greenhorns question to take heat off the old timers.

Instead of calling out people that irritate me I am going to shout out to some folks that have answered my questions and that have my utmost respect. These are
@cold blood , @Ungoliant , @Vanessa , @basin79 and @viper69 ! You guys rock! And I have seen some of you be accused of being mean at one point or another. I have never found that to be the case.

Feelings are the least important thing about keeping spiders. It's all about the spiders. Thats why it's arachnoboards and not instantgratificationboard lol.

 

[CommanderBacon]

@Andrea82 I am not referring to gatekeeping in the classical sense. The form of gatekeeping I see here, which manifests across the hobby (and any insular group that possesses specialized knowledge), is not overtly preventing people from accessing information, but doing it by intentionally (or even unintentionally, since I think some of the folks who do it may not even realize that they're doing it) alienating people who are new to the hobby (or fandom, or programming language, or whatever specialized knowledge that you possess, etc.). When a keeper of the knowledge insinuates that an inexperienced person is incompetent and/or willfully negligent while at the same time haughtily giving the person the information, that's still gatekeeping, because it alienates the person who needed the information.

Who would want to ask another question after they've basically been told that they suck? I have pretty thick skin due to working with developers for 18 years, but in extreme cases, even I am reluctant to accept criticism from someone who has insulted me, because I no longer respect them as a person. They have clearly demonstrated, in our interaction, that they don't respect me as one, so I will look elsewhere for my answers, as I know for a fact many new people do when they see how new keepers are treated on this board.

And I want to stress that it's not this board per se that's the issue, but this board is absolutely a reflection of an issue that persists across the hobby. So many people want to show off that they're right and feel powerful by telling others that they're wrong, but so few are willing to take the extra step to be kind and helpful educators.

So no, I don't think it's an old timer vs newbie thing, and I think of generational differences as only moderate contributors to miscommunication between new keeper and old keepers. I think it's an unfortunate characteristic of any field or subject that involves specialized information, but I also think we can come to terms with it and change it.

 

[basin79]

Nothing in life is perfect where humans are involved. From hospitals to this forum.

But this place is a MASSIVE resource with loads of members who'll have had actual hands on experience so have real knowledge.

Would sooner get the odd snide/rude comment and a wealth of useful comments than a place that didn't have the collective knowledge of this place than anywhere else.

 

[Andrea82]

@Andrea82 I am not referring to gatekeeping in the classical sense. The form of gatekeeping I see here, which manifests across the hobby (and any insular group that possesses specialized knowledge), is not overtly preventing people from accessing information, but doing it by intentionally (or even unintentionally, since I think some of the folks who do it may not even realize that they're doing it) alienating people who are new to the hobby (or fandom, or programming language, or whatever specialized knowledge that you possess, etc.). When a keeper of the knowledge insinuates that an inexperienced person is incompetent and/or willfully negligent while at the same time haughtily giving the person the information, that's still gatekeeping, because it alienates the person who needed the information.

Who would want to ask another question after they've basically been told that they suck? I have pretty thick skin due to working with developers for 18 years, but in extreme cases, even I am reluctant to accept criticism from someone who has insulted me, because I no longer respect them as a person. They have clearly demonstrated, in our interaction, that they don't respect me as one, so I will look elsewhere for my answers, as I know for a fact many new people do when they see how new keepers are treated on this board.

And I want to stress that it's not this board per se that's the issue, but this board is absolutely a reflection of an issue that persists across the hobby. So many people want to show off that they're right and feel powerful by telling others that they're wrong, but so few are willing to take the extra step to be kind and helpful educators.

So no, I don't think it's an old timer vs newbie thing, and I think of generational differences as only moderate contributors to miscommunication between new keeper and old keepers. I think it's an unfortunate characteristic of any field or subject that involves specialized information, but I also think we can come to terms with it and change it.

I understand what you're saying. I also understand that a person who gets told their spider is in a bad shape because of a mistake might not like that. But you know what? At that moment, the person who made the mistake is in the wrong, and I don't see any reason whatsoever to not tell the person that. What do you propose people do? A pat on the head 'of course you did everything right, you did not know any better'?
Because that is where the crux of the matter is... People CAN know better. There is ample information on the net, in the community, on this forum. There is no reason whatsoever for a person to keep their Avicularia species in a terrestrial set up with five crickets running around. No reason whatsoever why a new keeper gets an OBT, can't handle it and comes complaining about their spider being so 'aggressive'. No reason to have a Theraphosid on woodchips with two heatbulbs and a heatpad.
Because the information is there. It takes one sentence in Google or even less.
Why should I coddle a new keeper who keeps their spider completely wrong for no reason at all than being lazy, and be friendly and just downplay their mistake? Why should I take the time to type out a lengthy, friendly-toned post to someone who didn't took the time to research before getting a spider.
If I make a mistake that ends up with a spider lost or dead, I expect to be corrected and spoken to in an unfriendly manner because I deserve that.
But people nowadays seem to be hypersensitive to anything being remotely critical, and rather get offended than admit to a mistake.

Like I said, there are some members who just don't contribute to a thread other than being snide or sarcastic, and I get that that is frustrating and off-putting as heck.

But if a person makes a mistake concerning basic husbandry and care, they should expect to be called out on it, and in my opinion, that doesn't have to be sugar-coated. They are responsible for a living, breathing animal, and should behave accordingly.

I had an H.maculata sling escape. I shared it on the boards. I did not expect people to be 'oh dear, that wasn't your fault, there's nothing you could do, don't feel bad about yourself'. I expected to get told it was a stupid mistake and consequences would be on me. If I had paid better attention, that sling wouldn't have died.

Do you understand what I am saying? People make mistakes, yes. But that does not mean people should always be excused because people make mistakes. Anyone who can't handle being called out for a mistake...has no business getting into situations where there can be serious consequences to a mistake.

I will never get an H.mac, even though I didn't buy it in the first place, it was given to me as a freebie I was not ready for. Because of me, that spider died. Because of me, my daughter could have been in hospital living through hellish pain.

Consequences. Being in this hobby means your actions can have serious consequences. That is not something to sugarcoat. It will never be.

 

[Brachyfan]

@Andrea82 I am not referring to gatekeeping in the classical sense. The form of gatekeeping I see here, which manifests across the hobby (and any insular group that possesses specialized knowledge), is not overtly preventing people from accessing information, but doing it by intentionally (or even unintentionally, since I think some of the folks who do it may not even realize that they're doing it) alienating people who are new to the hobby (or fandom, or programming language, or whatever specialized knowledge that you possess, etc.). When a keeper of the knowledge insinuates that an inexperienced person is incompetent and/or willfully negligent while at the same time haughtily giving the person the information, that's still gatekeeping, because it alienates the person who needed the information.

Who would want to ask another question after they've basically been told that they suck? I have pretty thick skin due to working with developers for 18 years, but in extreme cases, even I am reluctant to accept criticism from someone who has insulted me, because I no longer respect them as a person. They have clearly demonstrated, in our interaction, that they don't respect me as one, so I will look elsewhere for my answers, as I know for a fact many new people do when they see how new keepers are treated on this board.

And I want to stress that it's not this board per se that's the issue, but this board is absolutely a reflection of an issue that persists across the hobby. So many people want to show off that they're right and feel powerful by telling others that they're wrong, but so few are willing to take the extra step to be kind and helpful educators.

So no, I don't think it's an old timer vs newbie thing, and I think of generational differences as only moderate contributors to miscommunication between new keeper and old keepers. I think it's an unfortunate characteristic of any field or subject that involves specialized information, but I also think we can come to terms with it and change it.

I am in an industry that is totally elitest/gatekeeping (music). At this point it is ridiculous. I dropped all online contact with anything for over 5 years (other than some clients who keep me and my pets fed) due in part to what has been described on this thread. I was sick of people expecting me to give up my secrets for playing/ engineering because they asked. That is my identity and the only reason why I would get hired over all the other crabs in the bucket. If I don't give up my secrets then I get told that I don't know anything or that they know more than I do. That is gatekeeping but also safeguarding my worth. I don't see many correlations between that and this board. In fact most folks wouldn't survive an internship at a recording studio. Work for free for two years spending your own money. Do everything you are told to do without question ( unless illegal) and you basically are treated not very good. In today's day and age this sounds horrible but it's designed to see how bad someone wants it. I deal with juvenile adults with egos that will blot out the sun on a daily basis. No sleep on a daily basis and if there is a deadline my life is on hold till that work gets done. High stress and that is why you gotta earn your stripes! 98 out of 100 would fold immediately. And we can't have that when the stakes sre high. I'm not complaining. I am grateful for where I am

I would disagree about gatekeeping in the boards here but have seen it in the reptile hobby lots. Even from vets. I actually keep a species of lizard that there is next to no info online about. The odd care sheet lol. I wish there was a forum for them to answer my questions like arachnoboards. But I learn from observation.

I apologize if you took offence to my last post. I just want to further the conversation and explain my position. I really don't have a problem with anyone here and value all opinions. Discourse is needed at this point for everything.

I agree that the problem (whatever side) is in the hobby. But it is a symptom of a larger problem facing the world today. CONFLICT RESOLUTION SKILLS. People seem to eager to give up when faced with adversity. I believe that is the point you are making. I would rather chat about all sides of an issue with everyone and widen my field of view.

My point of view comes from my life experience as I believe applies to everyone. People should hear all points of view without being defensive or hostile. I'm not to proud to say I apologize. And I do if anyone took offence.

 

[CommanderBacon]

@Andrea82 I very well understand what you're saying, but people shouldn't be beat up over something after they have admitted they've made a mistake, which I see happen on this board with disturbing regularity. I mean, check out the poll up there. I'm not making this up.

And I'm not sure where you'd get the impression that I'm saying that we shouldn't tell people they've done something wrong - I absolutely tell people that they've made husbandry mistakes regularly - but the delivery of the information makes all the difference in how it will be received. Saying "This species requires more substrate because of X and Y" is very different from saying "That's the worst setup I've ever seen. Did you even do any research? You need at least 5 inches more substrate in there."

I bought two new OW tarantulas in August. People who responded to my post asking for keeper experience with that species *immediately* jumped to the conclusion that I was a new keeper AND tried to beat me up for purchasing OW tarantulas as a new keeper without even asking. I never said at all that I was a new keeper OR that I was looking for husbandry advice. This is a standard experience on these boards, and it should not be.

I keep seeing a lot of "No, it's the CHILDREN who are wrong" on here, and nobody wants to take responsibility for fostering the hostility that makes this hobby's community notoriously painful for new keepers to engage with. No wonder we have a lot of newbs with bad setups who are afraid to ask for help. It's the spiders that suffer, ultimately.

Of course people will accept criticism with varying degrees of graciousness, but how it's delivered will make heaps of difference.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Like I said, there are some members who just don't contribute to a thread other than being snide or sarcastic, and I get that that is frustrating and off-putting as heck.

Hey, that is a bit offensive in and of itself. You left out being "goofy and irreverent"! People like that are frustrating and off-putting as heck too, ya know! Sheesh, sarcastic and snide people get ALL the credit.

 

[CommanderBacon]

@Brachyfan It's all good. I'm still arguing my point, though! XD

The difference between this hobby and your job is that your livelihood is reliant upon knowledge that you've obtained over the years. You've educated yourself and have experience in a narrow field.

In this hobby, it's the tarantulas who are reliant upon us for their care. Alienating insecure new keepers by being rude to them and implying that they are dumb/incompetent ensures that they won't come back or feel comfortable asking questions when they need help. It does nothing to help the hobby grow and gives all tarantula keepers a bad rep. No matter how much valuable information this board and its members contain, it's worthless if the people who need it most are afraid to post.

What's wrong with just being nice? Is being nice hard?

 

[Formerphobe]

I remember way back when I joined my first tarantula forum - the ATS forum. There were a lot of members there who were part of the science community - biologists, arachnologists, entomologists, taxonomists - people like Rick West and Rhys Brigida and Stan Schultz. Some of the people on that forum were so condescending that they make the most impatient member here look like Mother Theresa. There were people who wouldn't give you the time of day if you didn't have a slew of letters after your name. You had better have looked through the archives before you opened your mouth, or you would not want to ask another question ever. I always laugh when people talk about wanting all those guys back on the forum, because they probably wouldn't give them the time of day either.
The one person who always stood out to me as being helpful and an overall nice guy was Rhys and I will always remember how he used to tell stories about working with Cephalopods and how intelligent octopus were.
Anyway, I left because the amount of information available for hobbyists wasn't worth the pain and suffering. That's why I voted 'Yes' to the poll on this post.

I never experienced that. I've always found ATS members, in general, to be extremely helpful and willing to answer questions constructively.
I started keeping tarantulas in the late 70s, then got out of the hobby for a long while. When I got back into it about 12 years ago, I was essentially a "newbie", considering all the new research and info available via this newfangled thing called the "interweb". I was very thankful to the folks at ATS and AB for helping bring me up to speed.

 

[Brachyfan]

@Brachyfan It's all good. I'm still arguing my point, though! XD

The difference between this hobby and your job is that your livelihood is reliant upon knowledge that you've obtained over the years. You've educated yourself and have experience in a narrow field.

In this hobby, it's the tarantulas who are reliant upon us for their care. Alienating insecure new keepers by being rude to them and implying that they are dumb/incompetent ensures that they won't come back or feel comfortable asking questions when they need help. It does nothing to help the hobby grow and gives all tarantula keepers a bad rep. No matter how much valuable information this board and its members contain, it's worthless if the people who need it most are afraid to post.

What's wrong with just being nice? Is being nice hard?

I absolutely agree with your post. Whether it is the old timers being rude to noobs or people taking offense to advice offered. Either way is unnecessary. I do also see there are lines being drawn up too. Like either you are for the old timers or the noobs. I myself gravitate more to backing up the ot's that give advice and get a bunch of grief for trying to help. But like it or not we have rules here. And they get broken by both sides.

Another thought: I am actually pretty apprehensive about speaking my mind on some issues here. I am actually kinda worried about people trying to get me banned because they disagree with me so I usually just leave it alone cause my spiders need this resource. I have seen it before and that troubles me.

 

[Andrea82]

@Andrea82 I very well understand what you're saying, but people shouldn't be beat up over something after they have admitted they've made a mistake, which I see happen on this board with disturbing regularity. I mean, check out the poll up there. I'm not making this up.

And I'm not sure where you'd get the impression that I'm saying that we shouldn't tell people they've done something wrong - I absolutely tell people that they've made husbandry mistakes regularly - but the delivery of the information makes all the difference in how it will be received. Saying "This species requires more substrate because of X and Y" is very different from saying "That's the worst setup I've ever seen. Did you even do any research? You need at least 5 inches more substrate in there."

I bought two new OW tarantulas in August. People who responded to my post asking for keeper experience with that species *immediately* jumped to the conclusion that I was a new keeper AND tried to beat me up for purchasing OW tarantulas as a new keeper without even asking. I never said at all that I was a new keeper OR that I was looking for husbandry advice. This is a standard experience on these boards, and it should not be.

I keep seeing a lot of "No, it's the CHILDREN who are wrong" on here, and nobody wants to take responsibility for fostering the hostility that makes this hobby's community notoriously painful for new keepers to engage with. No wonder we have a lot of newbs with bad setups who are afraid to ask for help. It's the spiders that suffer, ultimately.

Of course people will accept criticism with varying degrees of graciousness, but how it's delivered will make heaps of difference.

I'm sorry you had that experience considering OW. It happens often because of the 'hierarchical' system of being an Arachnopeon first and work your way up when you post more. There has been confusion about that a lot which has caused some conflicts, yes. Nothing that can't be solved with saying you might be new to the boards but not to the hobby.

It is not the childrens fault. It's people of all ages that get animals they know nothing about and only look up stuff when there is a problem.

The poll does not represent the real situation because there are a lot more new people voting than regular Ab members, so the outcome is more in favor of the new people experiencing this.

Regarding your situation with how the message is delivered, of course you don't have to completely annihilate a new member over a couple of cm of substrate. However, in that particular scenario there would be instances where I would jump on the new keeper making a mistake. Just for illustration, below the scenarios.
S1:
New keeper comes online, showing an enclsosure with 1 cm substrate, a suitable hide, waterdish and appropriate species. Keeper says they are not sure of the set up and could use some pointers. In which case I would reply that it definitely needs more substrate, but otherwise, good job, well done.

S2
New keeper comes online, spider is not doing well/sick/dying for almost a month. Spider is housed in a glass tank with 2 heatbulbs, rocks, 1 cm of substrate and a sponge in the waterdish.
Spider doesn't eat even though it has plenty of food roaming around the enclosure. In this case I definitely WILL jump on the new keeper because of the glaring evidence the keeper didn't ever bother to look up information whatsoever and apparently doesn't care enough about their animal to get help the moment said animal is showing signs of being unwell.

On top of above scenario, it is often the keepers in the second scenario that begin whining or getting mad about perceived offenses. Which to me clearly indicates a severe lack of character and caring abilities overall.

As for the spiders suffering the most when new keepers aren't being coddled...I don't know about that. Maybe the bad keepers or the ones who don't give damn about doing research might be better off getting bitten or have a spider dying, and leaving the hobby, than stay in the hobby and just repeat mistake after mistake.

You know in which case scenario I am always willing to help and actually be happy doing so?
The ones coming on here saying they are interested in keeping an invert but are gathering information beforehand. I will go above and beyond to help them, point out sources of good info, pm them, heck, I have even had people on the phone while they were in the store getting the supplies. Those are the people I love introducing to the hobby.
But a guy/girl demanding information be delivered to him/her, and getting snotty about the link I posted for them? No way. Yes. It happened. I have literally had someone in my inbox complaining about me sending a link because 'ain't nobody got time for that'. Literally.

If you hang around long enough, you get a feeling very fast if someone is going to be worth the time or not. After 1000+ posts you learn to sort of recognize the 'brand' of new keeper that is posting. And you react accordingly. Not always correct, like in your case. But remember that the person who is being critical has seen hundreds of posts like yours before.

 

[Arthroverts]

Wow. A lot of good arguments here.

For myself, I have seen the "gatekeeping", although that may be more of a sink-or-swim attitude from more experienced keepers tired of seeing the same questions asked a bazillion times.

At the same time, the assumptions that come with this mindset can be very, very off-putting for new people on here. No joke I have seen people who have just joined the forum get absolutely blasted and never come back. Just goes to show how damaging an assumption ("Since your new to the forums you must be a new hobbyist; no Old World's for you", or "You're a young hobbyist so you shouldn't keep such-and-such") can be.

Probably gonna catch flak for this, but here goes. As one member said, you have to hang in with the "group of piranhas." I don't think that is too far off the mark sometimes.

Lastly, what is to gain from a harsh reply aside from maybe letting us vent?

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[Vanessa]

What's wrong with just being nice? Is being nice hard?

Sometimes, yes. When you comment on substandard husbandry for one of the most popular species ever - a species that has probably dozens of threads, on this forum alone, discussing their proper husbandry with details and photos and everything - and all you get in return is wisecracking from some punk who doesn't realize that being a smartass isn't the same as being smart.
Or when you're suffering from insomnia, so you come in here and happen upon a post in the middle of the night with 'HEEELLLLLPPPPP' in the subject line and you literally feel your heart jump into your throat thinking that some poor new person is going to need help trying to cut their good-as-dead small tarantula out of a bad moult, and you're not sure if you can take a dead tarantula tonight, just to find that the emergency that the person is going on about is that they were misinformed about how big their spider is going to grow to... followed up by the lousy attitude you get when you respond that subject lines like that should be reserved for real emergencies and not tools for drama queens who didn't do their homework.
Yes, there are some scenarios that people can encounter that makes it very difficult to be nice.

 

[cold blood]

here. I am actually kinda worried about people trying to get me banned because they disagree with me so I usually just leave it alone cause my spiders need this resource. I have see

Thats not how it works...no one, and i mean NO ONE aside from ones self can get a person banned. No one ever has or ever will be banned because of a disagreement or difference of opinion.

Bannings and other "warnings" ONLY come as a result of violating the terms of service (rules) on the boards....no user has the power or influence to get another user banned or even warned unless they violate the rules.

Never be afraid to post....no matter the response, its just words, and words cant hurt you, nor should they be able to chase someone away. Just ignore it, or ignore a user if its persistent, thats why we have that option. Also, please please report things that are violations, dont just sit back and get mad....the report button is there so YOU the user can help bad circumstances, situations or users.

I will never in my life understand being afraid to post because of a percieved response. No one has the power to stop anyone from posting or participating in any discussion and no one ever will.

There's mountains of great info and great people here, its baffling that so many are willing to pick out the bad apples and focus on them instead of the mountains of positivity.

 

[aprilmayjunebugs]

I would have put my 2 cents in days ago, but I got derailed by the Festes and Wellenough thread and had to finish it because I really hoped she'd post that vid, lol. That woman, she's got energy alright, the kind that makes others feel tired inside! The names were cute, I'll give her that. As far as how she was treated, some people may have gone a little overboard but really, she had most of it coming. The majority of people showed a lot more patience and willingness to help than I would have had the time and endurance for, that's for sure.

@CommanderBacon, I have recently read some of your earlier posts where a couple of people were less than pleasant to you and I thought you dealt with it very well. I'm appreciative that didn't deter you from sharing your experiences, and I kind of get what you're saying, though I haven't experienced it yet myself.

I'm new to tarantula keeping, 51 days now to be exact, and only started reading and researching here daily about a month before that. I haven't had to ask many questions thanks to the treasure trove of info to be found here, and when I did have to ask a stupid question about substrate because I was slightly panicked I had messed up, I got blunt, to the point responses plus a lot more info than I asked about. The point is I got responses, I got peace of mind and help and the feeling of gratitude that people cared enough to to help me.

So to the original question, maybe I'm too new to see where the divide is if there is one. Have I noticed a few who tend to cross the line for no other reason than to seemingly feel superior? Sure. But I've also seen many, many more members who obviously do care, or else they wouldn't take the time to answer the same questions over and over, or point people in the right direction. If some of those people come off as blunt, curt, or even borderline rude and elitist, I pretty much chalk it up to maybe the uber bug keeper doesn't have the best communication skills. Or maybe they just don't care what you think of the way their message is received as much as they care about your animal's well being and the correctness of the information available. I don't construe anyone's straight forward style as anything but that. In my short time reading I feel I have gotten a pretty good idea about who's opinions I respect, and who's to take with a grain of salt.
In short, I haven't been spoken to with disrespect or been made to feel any type of way so far, but if it were to happen I know that I cannot control what others say and do so I probably wouldn't put too much time or energy into being offended, but rather think of it as part of the learning experience. Some of the most educated, knowledgeable, and caring people on the internet are the reason this forum exists. I'm forever grateful for that and I'm not about to get my panties in a bunch over words.

 

[Brachyfan]

Thats not how it works...no one, and i mean NO ONE aside from ones self can get a person banned. No one ever has or ever will be banned because of a disagreement or difference of opinion.

Bannings and other "warnings" ONLY come as a result of violating the terms of service (rules) on the boards....no user has the power or influence to get another user banned or even warned unless they violate the rules.

Never be afraid to post....no matter the response, its just words, and words cant hurt you, nor should they be able to chase someone away. Just ignore it, or ignore a user if its persistent, thats why we have that option. Also, please please report things that are violations, dont just sit back and get mad....the report button is there so YOU the user can help bad circumstances, situations or users.

I will never in my life understand being afraid to post because of a percieved response. No one has the power to stop anyone from posting or participating in any discussion and no one ever will.

There's mountains of great info and great people here, its baffling that so many are willing to pick out the bad apples and focus on them instead of the mountains of positivity.

Thanks! As for why I feel like that I have experienced things in life that back up what I said. I have had bad things happen for speaking my mind or standing up for myself. Not here mind you. But that kinda taints all online experiences for me. I for one tend to look at the positives and all the awesome folks here.

Cheers

\M/