Nematodes

Draiman

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So I received a package today, containing a WC female S. s. dehaani and a few other things. Upon opening the package I found the dehaani dead, while the others (a pair of S. morsitans and an Oligoxystre sling) looked fine. And upon closer inspection, I noticed largeish, 5-8mm maggots crawling all over the dehaani and inside the container. Upon even closer inspection, I found tiny worms, which are almost certainly nematodes, everywhere, all over the inside surface of the container.



They sure do resemble these nematodes:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/DanRead/Microphotography/Ssubspinipesdehaaninematode3.jpg

And on the outside of the container I noticed some very strange white lumps:





Fungus? But they seem to resemble these:

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/tyrelp/photography/hadrurus_arizonensis_nematode_infection-5.jpg

I have only one question...what kind of wretched luck is this (I have had like...8 cases of possible nematodes and dyskinetic syndrome afflicting my collection within a year)?
 

gromgrom

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i had "nematodes" kill my flat rock scorpion. or something did; he wasnt acting himself, and had white stuff all over his mouth. he died the next day with MORE of this white stuff all over his mouthparts (fangs and all).
i never saw worms like that, but i didnt look that close. bleached all my cages and replaced all my dirt. nothing else since.
 

Protectyaaaneck

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It is bad luck but I think it also has to do with maybe buying the wrong stock or from the wrong seller. In either case your stuff was WC right. I rarely trust WC stuff. Even with my cb stuff I still quarantine for a few weeks or a molt until I put it with the rest of my collection. Either way Gavin I'm sorry to hear about this.
 

Draiman

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It is bad luck but I think it also has to do with maybe buying the wrong stock or from the wrong seller. In either case your stuff was WC right. I rarely trust WC stuff. Even with my cb stuff I still quarantine for a few weeks or a molt until I put it with the rest of my collection. Either way Gavin I'm sorry to hear about this.
Not all of the nematode/DKS incidents in my collection were associated with WC stuff, a few of them were CB. Anyway, I got these from a reputable guy in Europe, not directly from a source in Asia or something. I don't know how long he'd kept these guys for, but I'll find that out, as well as whether this dead pede even fed in his care, since nematodes cause tarantulas and scorpions to stop feeding I'd wager that they do the same to centipedes as well. All in all, a very demoralising situation for me. I have such bad fortune that I am likely to walk out of my house tomorrow and get killed by a falling lunch box... :)
 

gromgrom

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Not all of the nematode/DKS incidents in my collection were associated with WC stuff, a few of them were CB. Anyway, I got these from a reputable guy in Europe, not directly from a source in Asia or something. I don't know how long he'd kept these guys for, but I'll find that out, as well as whether this dead pede even fed in his care, since nematodes cause tarantulas and scorpions to stop feeding I'd wager that they do the same to centipedes as well. All in all, a very demoralising situation for me. I have such bad fortune that I am likely to walk out of my house tomorrow and get killed by a falling lunch box... :)

yeah my scorp was fine. he ate after a month in my care, but just one cricket. two months later, he died.

edit: from a pic of another topic, Draiman's tarantula died of nematodes, but that looked ALOT different from my death.mine caused mine to act erratic and hide in the open. it could have been something in my room or on my hands that killed him. i dunno. he wasnt covered in goop or anything, just "whiteout" around his mouth, similar to scorpion poop.
 

Draiman

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yeah my scorp was fine. he ate after a month in my care, but just one cricket. two months later, he died.
Was it wild caught?

The thing with centipedes is, it can be difficult to find captive bred animals for sale, and with the more uncommon species you have no choice but to buy WC. I obviously am after the less common species, so I have to take that risk. It certainly is NOT paying off for me though.
 

gromgrom

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Was it wild caught?

The thing with centipedes is, it can be difficult to find captive bred animals for sale, and with the more uncommon species you have no choice but to buy WC. I obviously am after the less common species, so I have to take that risk. It certainly is NOT paying off for me though.
most flat rocks are WC, due to the difficulties in breeding them, and the gestation period of 18 months, or up to two years!!

That might be why.
 

Draiman

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cant help,but sorry to hear man.
Yeah, on the bright side, the one spider and two other pedes that arrived alive in that package all seem to be fine, the spider has molted and the pedes have fed. Hopefully the dehaani death was a one-off.
 

Lucas339

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the white fuzz is stryofoam. i have seen first hand the worms you posted in the picture link in some dead WC S. hardwickei and the links on the tape are not those.

the red circle is definitely a nematode. it is hard to tell without cutting the animal open and inspecting the body cavity wiether or not they killed the animal. it could be out looking for another host after this one died. i have had several WC specimens sent to me for dissection, and most, if not all, had nematodes in them.

not sure what is going on in the blue circle.




*EDIT* reread your post.....maggots in the blue circle...correct?
 

Draiman

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the white fuzz is stryofoam.
It is not styrofoam. If it's not a dried-out mass of nematodes or whatever, then it's fungi of some sort. Sorry, but I can very well distinguish polystyrene from anything else.

*EDIT* reread your post.....maggots in the blue circle...correct?
Those are definitely maggots, yes. They were all over the centipede.
 

cacoseraph

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the problem with nematodes is that they can spread to other bugs in your collection. i have seen collections devastated by them, actually. if i was in your neck of the world i would be VERY worried about them spreading out of your collection to my collection


i have done some reading and know a bit... but i know your opinion of my research and evaluative abilities, Draiman, so i guess i will just let you try this one w/o my help ;)
 

Nomadinexile

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I am not an expert and I'm still having my morning coffee. Take all this info with a grain of salt.

I think it's pretty obvious you have "nematodes" in there. I'm no microbiologist, and I would think that there are other "worms" that look similar, so maybe they aren't technically nematodes, but they are what we call nematodes if that makes any sense.

The "blue circle" is a fungus in my opinion. I see a lot of jelly type fungus here locally, and I'm sure they exist elsewhere too.

I do think the white stuff is insulation. It may not be polystyrene, but I think that it is at least man-made insulation. That being said, I've found some white insulation type materials outside recently where I am pretty sure no people have been for years if not decades or even ever. It could be some kind of nest, but I think the odds of figuring that out if it were would be slim to none. I still think it's man-made though. Could be veggie-based Stryo, or a different synthetic formula? The fact that it is only on the outside and on the tape, lends credence to this. Who here hasn't packed a box that got some styro on the tape? That at least, would be easy to find out. Cut it open under a loupe.

I am very sorry for the loss. Hopefully things will improve for you. r
 

Greg Pelka

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Just sterilize all your equipment you're using with dead/ possibly infected animals.
Dead bodies and boxes of them you can put into freezer, or 40% alcohol, it'll kill nematodes and preserve centipede.
I think many, many WC centipedes/spiders are infectef with nematodes, but it's stable infection, parasite don't want to kill it's host, but after long trip, like from UE to Singapore, centipede's resistance was decreased and infection kills it.
 

Lucas339

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Sorry, but I can very well distinguish polystyrene from anything else.
i meant not disrespect in the least by my statement. they look near identical to styro balls that come off when you cut styro or break it. they are in no way natural.

like cacoseraph said they can spread and i second the advice and comments give by greg although i prefer slightly stonger mix. i use a 70% mix for everything at work as well as at home.
 

Draiman

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the problem with nematodes is that they can spread to other bugs in your collection. i have seen collections devastated by them, actually. if i was in your neck of the world i would be VERY worried about them spreading out of your collection to my collection
I know they're contagious. The very moment I looked at those pictures on my camera, I dumped the entire package - with the dead pede and its container inside - and cleaned the floor (multiple times), as well as all my tweezers, tools and containers that were anywhere near the package for the brief time that it was in my house. I also isolated the survivors from that package, but all three are feeding well. Should I keep them in isolation? And for how long?

like cacoseraph said they can spread and i second the advice and comments give by greg although i prefer slightly stonger mix. i use a 70% mix for everything at work as well as at home.
Just one question - how do we know that the nematodes present in that picture actually caused the centipede's death? We all are well aware of their propensity to simply die for no apparent reason. I was also informed by the person who sent it to me that he'd kept it for half a year, and it was doing well (he's not lying, he's better than that). So is there any chance that the nematodes did not kill the animal, and instead were a more benign type, or were simply "hitchhikers", like some phoretic mites are; and therefore may not represent a major threat to the rest of my collection? (I am just trying to be optimistic here!)

Thanks everyone for the input thus far :)
 
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Lucas339

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as i have stated before most if not all of the centipedes sent to me for dissection had nematodes some where. there is a chance that they did not kill the pede, however, you should still protect the rest of your collection. there are no hitchhiker nematodes. they are either free living or parasitic. the free living ones are usually found in soils and i have no doubts that the one pictured is a parasitic one coming out looking for a new host. i have been sent pedes that have lived for several years in captivity and they had only a few nematodes. no matter who or where you got a WC animal from, there is still a very good possibility that i has some nematodes.
 

Draiman

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as i have stated before most if not all of the centipedes sent to me for dissection had nematodes some where. there is a chance that they did not kill the pede, however, you should still protect the rest of your collection. there are no hitchhiker nematodes. they are either free living or parasitic. the free living ones are usually found in soils and i have no doubts that the one pictured is a parasitic one coming out looking for a new host. i have been sent pedes that have lived for several years in captivity and they had only a few nematodes. no matter who or where you got a WC animal from, there is still a very good possibility that i has some nematodes.
Okay. The measures I have taken so far:

Draiman said:
The very moment I looked at those pictures on my camera, I dumped the entire package - with the dead pede and its container inside - and cleaned the floor (multiple times), as well as all my tweezers, tools and containers that were anywhere near the package for the brief time that it was in my house.
Are they good enough? What else would you suggest I do?

Also:

Draiman said:
I also isolated the survivors from that package, but all three are feeding well. Should I keep them in isolation? And for how long?
One last thing - A day or two ago, after I saw them (the surviving animals) eat, I thought it might be safe to put them in the same cupboard as the rest of my collection, albeit in a separate compartment. So essentially they have been in the same place as the rest of my collection for a couple of days now...

[Though I have moved them out of there already. Would it also be necessary to clean out the entire compartment where I kept them?]
 
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