Need help

[Abyss]

Great info in this thread with videos an links. I keep A. versacolors and have for a LONG time an can personally vouch that if you "look info up online" (i.e. Care sheets) and take advice from pet store employees, your spider will die 99.9% of the time.

The advice here is spot on!!!!!!
Avics LOVE lots of anchor points and good cross ventilation. Heres an example of how my avic enclosures look like. Water dish, excelent cross ventilation and water dish.

Image

• Abyss
• Jul 9, 2016
• 6

A. versacolor roughly 2" specimen
rehouse into new digs. Look like an arboreal paradise or what???

*note this is for a sling so its slightly moist (emphasis on SLIGHTLY and emphasys on SLING)
The cross ventilation prevents a stuffy enclosure

 

[shining]

I avoid any soil advertised as organic. All soil is inherently organic, the stuff labeled as such is in reference to the additives...organic fertilizers are generally dung or other materials like compost that will break down in time (beneficial for plants, not for ts)...not what I want in my enclosures.

Just buy the cheapest topsoil you can, the stuff sold for filling holes in driveways and such. A 40lb bag should cost less than $2.

What harm would that natural fertilizer do? A T can live it's entire full life under a tree stump burrow that has natural compost breaking down and other animal's feces fertilizing that same soil

Is there any scientific facts to confirm this theory instead of an I believe this scenario?

How would plants fare using that $2 non organic topsoil?

What do people use for live plant vivs if they can't use a soil or portions of soil that has beneficial proteins for plants?

Sorry if any of this sounds rude, it isn't meant to be. I'm just trying to understand the middle ground of horticulture and arthropod husbandry more and I'm sure there are more seasoned keepers that have surely dug into this more than I have on here.

 

[magicmed]

Well, I don't know how the T would take to it, but what I do for my sensitive potted plants is give them water from my fish tank every couple of waterings for nitrates. I also give just a tad bit of milk diluted in a gallon of water for calcium. As I said I don't know how the T would do with fish tank water and highly diluted milk.

 

[EulersK]

What harm would that natural fertilizer do? A T can live it's entire full life under a tree stump burrow that has natural compost breaking down and other animal's feces fertilizing that same soil

Is there any scientific facts to confirm this theory instead of an I believe this scenario?

How would plants fare using that $2 non organic topsoil?

What do people use for live plant vivs if they can't use a soil or portions of soil that has beneficial proteins for plants?

Sorry if any of this sounds rude, it isn't meant to be. I'm just trying to understand the middle ground of horticulture and arthropod husbandry more and I'm sure there are more seasoned keepers that have surely dug into this more than I have on here.

It largely has to do with ventilation. In the wild, there is unlimited ventilation. It's the same reason that a small amount of airborne pesticides can kill a tarantula indoors yet not necessarily outdoors. Not to mention the entire ecosystem. Sure, you've got mold spores, but you don't have the other microscopic life thriving in the wild. Springtails? Just a fraction of what is out there. I believe that those with successful vivariums are careful enough with their environment that they've accommodated for all of this, but are we talking to one of those people? Likely not. Hence the advice of staying away from this type of soil.

It's the same reason why we tell people to keep certain species on "bone dry"substrate, even though many of those species do enjoy a touch of humidity every now and then. Making the process simpler.

 

[shining]

It largely has to do with ventilation. In the wild, there is unlimited ventilation. It's the same reason that a small amount of airborne pesticides can kill a tarantula indoors yet not necessarily outdoors. Not to mention the entire ecosystem. Sure, you've got mold spores, but you don't have the other microscopic life thriving in the wild. Springtails? Just a fraction of what is out there. I believe that those with successful vivariums are careful enough with their environment that they've accommodated for all of this, but are we talking to one of those people? Likely not. Hence the advice of staying away from this type of soil.

It's the same reason why we tell people to keep certain species on "bone dry"substrate, even though many of those species do enjoy a touch of humidity every now and then. Making the process simpler.

That's pretty much what my lady told me before I started messing with plant approved soil mixes. She studies horticulture and tends to gardens but doesn't keep Ts so that part was left somewhat in the gray. Suffice to say, I can get away doing this because my vivs have so much ventilation.

Great answer.
*starts a slow clap*

 

[Poec54]

How would plants fare using that $2 non organic topsoil?

That's all I use for all my tarantulas, and it's $1.50/bag at Home Depot. BTW it is natural & organic, just not man-made organic.

 

[shining]

That's all I use for all my tarantulas, and it's $1.50/bag at Home Depot. BTW it is natural & organic, just not man-made organic.

I'm not familiar with your enclosures. Do you have live plants or have used live plants with that bag you speak of? How do or did they fare? (Don't need to ask how the Ts were with it, obviously well.)

What's the brand name, that would be great? I'm interested in it's ingredients.

What's the difference between natural organic and man made organic? Did they scoop it from nature?

 

[Trenor]

She is having trouble sticking to the glass, however at first she wasn't. Is that because she is going to molt?? And when it comes to substrate am I aloud to use organic soil without any pesticides or chemicals without harming her?

What harm would that natural fertilizer do? A T can live it's entire full life under a tree stump burrow that has natural compost breaking down and other animal's feces fertilizing that same soil

Is there any scientific facts to confirm this theory instead of an I believe this scenario?

How would plants fare using that $2 non organic topsoil?

What do people use for live plant vivs if they can't use a soil or portions of soil that has beneficial proteins for plants?

Sorry if any of this sounds rude, it isn't meant to be. I'm just trying to understand the middle ground of horticulture and arthropod husbandry more and I'm sure there are more seasoned keepers that have surely dug into this more than I have on here.

I do not have any studies so this is just my thoughts. It also has to do with the concentrations in the soil and a big factor of your T can't leave. Organic(I dislike this word because unless you make it yourself seeing it on a bag could mean anything) or fertilizer enhanced soil is made with plants in mind not small inverts. If the concentration levels are too high they can kill the invert.

In your stump scenario that T has options.
If it's just a small amount near the surface it might not notice.
If it's a high amount but rains often enough. Then a lot it's strength might get carried away by the water and the T is still good. If there isn't rain to help the T might dig to the side or down further out of the effected area.
Finally, if that isn't an option the T can always pack up and move to a more hospitable spot and make a new home.

Our Ts are in small environments. If all the soil is contaminated (to them at least) they can't burrow or leave. This forces them to stay in an area that they would normally leave to the determent of their health.

 

[Trenor]

I'm not familiar with your enclosures. Do you have live plants or have used live plants with that bag you speak of? How do or did they fare? (Don't need to ask how the Ts were with it, obviously well.)

What's the brand name, that would be great? I'm interested in it's ingredients.

What's the difference between natural organic and man made organic? Did they scoop it from nature?

I don't use live plants personally though I know some do. It adds in a lot more factors as a lot of plants don't have the same requirements that your T will have. When there is a problem it makes it harder to trouble shoot the cause.

Also, I'd like to point out organic in this sense (fertilizers) can have a lot of meanings. They dig rock phosphate out of the ground like they do components of a lot of manufactured fertilizers but it is still considered 'organic'. When people see organic on things they don't realize what all you can use on crops in the US and it still be called organic.

 

[Andrea82]

Here in the Netherlands, organic only means there are no artificial components in it. which means there can be anything in it, from dog poop to cow dung or compost from someones backyard. So I'll never use that stuff, and stick to my cocopeat instead.

 

[shining]

I don't use live plants personally though I know some do. It adds in a lot more factors as a lot of plants don't have the same requirements that your T will have. When there is a problem it makes it harder to trouble shoot the cause.

Also, I'd like to point out organic in this sense (fertilizers) can have a lot of meanings. They dig rock phosphate out of the ground like they do components of a lot of manufactured fertilizers but it is still considered 'organic'. When people see organic on things they don't realize what all you can use on crops in the US and it still be called organic.

Yes, each state has their minimum of organic materials to reach their fda approved stamp, some is 70% some is 95%. The remaining portion could be anything. Anything labeled with the term "natural" is totally unregulated. The same thing applies to everything from food to beauty products. What kind of salad are you eating? What fruits and veggies are you feeding your feeders? Where did that cork bark come from? How was it packaged during transit? We work with so many unknowns so I can see the issue with adding to the unknowns.

 

[shining]

Here in the Netherlands, organic only means there are no artificial components in it. which means there can be anything in it, from dog poop to cow dung or compost from someones backyard. So I'll never use that stuff, and stick to my cocopeat instead.

So, no live plants for you?

 

[cold blood]

What harm would that natural fertilizer do? A T can live it's entire full life under a tree stump burrow that has natural compost breaking down and other animal's feces fertilizing that same soil

Is there any scientific facts to confirm this theory instead of an I believe this scenario?

How would plants fare using that $2 non organic topsoil?

What do people use for live plant vivs if they can't use a soil or portions of soil that has beneficial proteins for plants?

Sorry if any of this sounds rude, it isn't meant to be. I'm just trying to understand the middle ground of horticulture and arthropod husbandry more and I'm sure there are more seasoned keepers that have surely dug into this more than I have on here.

What they do in the wild isn't comparable to an enclosure, as eulersk eluded to. Organic fertilizers will attract unwanted insects into your confined enclosure.

Most of us could care less how live plants would fare with the cheap stuff (although I'm sure they'd do fine)...fact is that the vast majority of us use plastic plants....and without extensive experience, that's what I would suggest to anyone that asks. Live plants in t enclosures needlessly complicates things...and with many species not feasible as they like it too dry, others aren't feasible because of the speed and potency of the species of t....you wouldn't want to be doing plant maintenance with an H. mac or a pokie for example...that's just a recipe for disaster IMO.

I warn people of this specifically because we have had people post about having serious issues with flies or even dead ts as a result of using the wrong type of soils...and "organic" is often the culprit.

Poec54 uses only plastic zoo med plants.

 

[Poec54]

I'm not familiar with your enclosures. Do you have live plants or have used live plants with that bag you speak of? How do or did they fare? (Don't need to ask how the Ts were with it, obviously well.)

What's the brand name, that would be great? I'm interested in it's ingredients.

What's the difference between natural organic and man made organic? Did they scoop it from nature?

I use clear plastic Sterile storage boxes, with holes in the supper sides and lids. Inside is bagged top soil with a cork slab and some plastic plants and a disposable plastic water bowl (soufflé cup). Simple, affordable, and work well for terrestrials and arboreals.

Sterlite boxes from Target and Walmart, Top soil from Home Depot. Plastic plants are the Zoomed vining kind, cut to fit. Soufflé cups (1 oz and 3.25 oz) are from restaurant supply stores.

 

[shining]

What they do in the wild isn't comparable to an enclosure, as eulersk eluded to. Organic fertilizers will attract unwanted insects into your confined enclosure.

Most of us could care less how live plants would fare with the cheap stuff (although I'm sure they'd do fine)...fact is that the vast majority of us use plastic plants....and without extensive experience, that's what I would suggest to anyone that asks. Live plants in t enclosures needlessly complicates things...and with many species not feasible as they like it too dry, others aren't feasible because of the speed and potency of the species of t....you wouldn't want to be doing plant maintenance with an H. mac or a pokie for example...that's just a recipe for disaster IMO.

I warn people of this specifically because we have had people post about having serious issues with flies or even dead ts as a result of using the wrong type of soils...and "organic" is often the culprit.

Poec54 uses only plastic zoo med plants.

I do plant maintenance in a full grown Subspinipes dehaani enclosure. That is pretty scary, I couldn't imagine being a new person that picked up that cute pokie at the PetHo T hut working with such husbandry.

 

[shining]

I use clear plastic Sterile storage boxes, with holes in the supper sides and lids. Inside is bagged top soil with a cork slab and some plastic plants and a disposable plastic water bowl (soufflé cup). Simple, affordable, and work well for terrestrials and arboreals.

Sterlite boxes from Target and Walmart, Top soil from Home Depot. Plastic plants are the Zoomed vining kind, cut to fit. Soufflé cups (1 oz and 3.25 oz) are from restaurant supply stores.

What's the brand of Top soil?

 

[EulersK]

What's the brand of Top soil?

EarthGro Topsoil
https://www.walmart.com/reviews/product/16904044

It only has 2/5 stars for a rating. You know it's great soil for T's when gardeners complain about it!

Also sold at Lowe's, by the way.

 

[Abyss]

Yea i tried live plants thinking the "natural humidity" and "fresh air" was ideal........

Dont.....just dont unless your fully knowledgeable and can control gnats and other pests that the T wont like (or will be harmful) yet the watering and fertilisers are guaranteed to attract. Not to mention potential mold issues due to a more humid environment (which most T's also wont like).

Sounds like your mind is made up but if your at all swayable, i refer back to my above post/picture of what an arboreal setup should/could look like to make for a happy T (and my plants will always look better then live plants FYI, guaranteed to always be bright green and never wilt with 0 maintenance)

If your not swayable away from using live plants, shall we begin trouble shooting your enclosure now to help determine what pests you have attracted and whats wrong with your T????

 

[Trenor]

To be fair there are quite a few that have made live plants work. I've not tried it because I'm fine with fake plants and T care. If it is your thing that's fine. Do your research and give it a go. There is a nice section on the forum about vivariums-and-terrariums and a number of posts about working with live plants.

 

[Ellenantula]

My concern with live plants (besides the fact T care/maintenance is enough in itself without additional challenges) is that I "feed" my plants that 'Miracle Grow' stuff that i don't think my Ts need exposure to. Also, unless it was a T with high moisture requirements, why add unneeded moisture requirements to an enclosure and invite mould, mites, etc..
I admire those who can handle the challenge, but that's definitely not me.