N. incei pairing (and more)

EulersK

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Well, got another one going. My girl molted just a couple months ago, so she's pretty fresh. It just so happens that @cold blood had a pretty fresh male as well, so we set up a loan. The female is a pure blooded olive, meaning there is no chance of gold offspring. The male could be carrying the gold allele, but I actually don't know his lineage. Cold blood, what were his parents? I know you had a mixed sac, but that's all I know. Here's the future couple - may they be prolific.

The blushing bride (old picture, she's not exactly cooperative with the camera)
And no, she's not gold anymore. Not sure why she was this color for one molt cycle, but I assure you this wasn't a trick of the camera. Regardless, she looks like a typical olive now.

The fancy lad, who put up absolutely no fight. He's the calmest MM I've dealt with, and also the calmest N. incei.
IMG_1830.JPG


While he was shipping, I figured that I may as well buy another spider. So here is a female A. ezendami, just under 3" and fairly close to a molt according to him. As always from Dennis, beautifully packed and superbly healthy spider.
IMG_1834.JPG
 

cold blood

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the male came from 2 olive parents...however 25% if his siblings were gold....so he definitely carries the gold gene.
 

EulersK

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the male came from 2 olive parents...however 25% if his siblings were gold....so he definitely carries the gold gene.
Not definitely then, no. If 25% were gold, then both parents were heterozygotes.

Aa x Aa = 25% AA, 50% Aa, and 25% aa
Meaning he falls in the 75% of olives. Of that 75%, 66% carry the gold allele. So there's a 33% chance he's pure olive, and a 66% chance he's a carrier of gold.

We'll find out in a year or so. @Blue Jaye will end up getting one of the mature males from this batch to pair with her gold female.
 

Trenor

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The fancy lad, who put up absolutely no fight. He's the calmest MM I've dealt with, and also the calmest N. incei.
Thanks for the male shot. I've been trying to molt sex my 7 and it hasn't been going well. Now that I can see how leggy the males are it might help me with sexing them.
 

Trenor

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While he was shipping, I figured that I may as well buy another spider. So here is a female A. ezendami, just under 3" and fairly close to a molt according to him. As always from Dennis, beautifully packed and superbly healthy spider.
These are great. I got mine from CB as well. I've been wanting to get a photo of her but lately she has been quick to jump in her burrow.
 

EulersK

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Thanks for the male shot. I've been trying to molt sex my 7 and it hasn't been going well. Now that I can see how leggy the males are it might help me with sexing them.
If it helps, he's not any smaller than the female. Maybe a quarter inch smaller at most. The dimorphism mostly comes in coloration (he's darn near brown) and leggyness.

These are great. I got mine from CB as well. I've been wanting to get a photo of her but lately she has been quick to jump in her burrow.
I've got a few of the slings he produced as well, but they're growing ridiculously slowly. Mine are photogenic only because they haven't even attempted to burrow yet. This girl is not from that batch. Surprisingly, she's already webbed shut her burrow not even two hours after housing.
 

Trenor

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If it helps, he's not any smaller than the female. Maybe a quarter inch smaller at most. The dimorphism mostly comes in coloration (he's darn near brown) and leggyness.
That's good to know. They are some of the few I've not been able to nail down the sex on.

I've got a few of the slings he produced as well, but they're growing ridiculously slowly. Mine are photogenic only because they haven't even attempted to burrow yet. This girl is not from that batch. Surprisingly, she's already webbed shut her burrow not even two hours after housing.
My girl is out a lot. She just likes to jump down her burrow when I open the lid. It's handy when I'm doing maintenance, but not as cool when I want some photos. :)
 

Matttoadman

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So is the gold not a locale variant of some kind? Is it found in wild populations or just sprung up in captivity?
 

EulersK

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So is the gold not a locale variant of some kind? Is it found in wild populations or just sprung up in captivity?
No idea on it being a local variant, but I very much doubt that it sprung from captivity. This is simply a matter of Mendelian genetics at work. The gold phenotype is a single recessive gene, and the olive phenotype is a single dominant gene. Remember Punnet squares in high school? It's just that.

It is certainly more common in captivity because it's very easy to breed for it. Further, I'd imagine that the golds have a lower survival rate in the wild due to their coloration. Easy for a predator to spot what is effectively a white spider.
 

Matttoadman

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I was under the impression this was like all the other morphs that no one crossbred. I didn't realize it was common to get some in a normal sack.
 

EulersK

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I was under the impression this was like all the other morphs that no one crossbred. I didn't realize it was common to get some in a normal sack.
Take a look here, this explains it very well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square

N. incei is the exception to morphs. A great example is C. darlingi - there are quite a few morphs of this species, and they should not be cross bred because they are localities. But with N. incei, it's just a matter of a single gene difference, not locality. I don't know of another tarantula that falls under this category.

Like in @cold blood's sac, he had two heterozygote olive parents (each Aa) produce 75% olive and 25% gold. Had one parent been aa and the other Aa, then it would be 50% gold and 50% olive. Had both parents been gold, then 100% would be gold.

For my pairing, I won't be getting any gold because my female is a homozygote olive (AA). So if I want gold, the best I can hope for is that this male is a heterozygote (Aa) meaning 50% of the slings will carry the gold gene but still be olive. However, there would be no way to ever tell which slings carry the gold allele until you pair them down the road.
 

Matttoadman

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Thanks for the clarification on the origin of this particular morph. Actually I have 4 lovely years of College edumication in the field of biology, so I am well versed in Mendelian genetics.
 

EulersK

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Thanks for the clarification on the origin of this particular morph. Actually I have 4 lovely years of College edumication in the field of biology, so I am well versed in Mendelian genetics.
And see, that's a downfall of forums! I didn't want to insult your knowledge, but it's impossible to know if you're a 12 year old kid or a seasoned college professor :rofl: I apologize if I came across as condescending.
 

EulersK

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Nah your fine. I couldn't pass trig so I can't brag about it too much lol
Some Old Hippie Caught A High Trippin' On Acid

SOH CAH TOA

The hippie's stuff is in his box. He needs to see his box, but he can't be next to his box or he'll be arrested. Choose another corner :D My high school trig teacher may have been a bit inappropriate, but his lessons stuck.
 
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