N incei gold dimorphism

saturnthegrey

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I have several N. incei gold forms and I've read that the males are a more gray gold color vs the female are bright gold and almost a burnt orange color. If I'm wrong I would appreciate some clarification but what im really looking for are pictures. If you could post pics of your MF vs MM that would help me out the most.
I'm not using this method to determine sex I'm just curious.
 

sdsnybny

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The fist 3 N. incei gold I bought as slings matured to males and stayed that vibrant gold throughout there growth. @louise f has bred them she may have more pics.
here is one of my penultimate males

2016-01-11 15.57.06.jpg
 

viper69

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I agree, I've seen males that were bright gold as well like the females.
 

viper69

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My MM is as gold as ever, don't have a female though.
Do you have a pic, would help the OP. Everyone's "gold" is different, subjective term. Not that I don't believe you, it helps to see variety, especially in the digital age where chip sensors, algorithms for interpreting color, and each person's monitor/screen is different and 99.9% aren't of screens aren't calibrated by the owner.
 

Ziad ElGuneid

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Do you have a pic, would help the OP. Everyone's "gold" is different, subjective term. Not that I don't believe you, it helps to see variety, especially in the digital age where chip sensors, algorithms for interpreting color, and each person's monitor/screen is different and 99.9% aren't of screens aren't calibrated by the owner.
i shall get one right now.
 

Ziad ElGuneid

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Nice comparison!
Thanks, I got the gold because I automatically assumed it'd be prettier but honestly, the contrast of the black and yellow on the NCF is as beautiful if not more so in my opinion. Not to mention the chevrons on the abdomen.
 

viper69

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Thanks, I got the gold because I automatically assumed it'd be prettier but honestly, the contrast of the black and yellow on the NCF is as beautiful if not more so in my opinion. Not to mention the chevrons on the abdomen.

Before I saw them both, I had assumed the exact same thing. I thought for sure the gold would be prettier. But I think the normal phase is more pretty.

What is interesting is that from the same sac, so far in two different reports, one in USA one from Europe, the golds are larger than their normal sacmates. I have some of both, sacmates, and the golds are obviously larger. So it appears it's not just a color/pattern change w/this mutation.

What I'd like to get is the Bumblebee, I forget the exact species name, same genus, species begins with letter f. Used to be called H. sp Columbia. It's like N incei on steroids in terms of color. Unfortunately they are much harder to breed for some reason than N. incei, and more delicate.

https://wildesgaestezimmer.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/117057148@N03/15371223375
 

Ziad ElGuneid

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Before I saw them both, I had assumed the exact same thing. I thought for sure the gold would be prettier. But I think the normal phase is more pretty.

What is interesting is that from the same sac, so far in two different reports, one in USA one from Europe, the golds are larger than their normal sacmates. I have some of both, sacmates, and the golds are obviously larger. So it appears it's not just a color/pattern change w/this mutation.

What I'd like to get is the Bumblebee, I forget the exact species name, same genus, species begins with letter f. Used to be called H. sp Columbia. It's like N incei on steroids in terms of color. Unfortunately they are much harder to breed for some reason than N. incei.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/117057148@N03/15371223375
Wow, I've never seen those before, ive only ever seen sanguiniceps for sale other than incei. I've read those reports and that's why i got the NCF female when my male matured. If its a recessive gene then i should get all NCF slings with the gene for gold, then next generation breeding should show around 25% gold. all assuming the female doesn't already have the gold gene.
 

sdsnybny

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Before I saw them both, I had assumed the exact same thing. I thought for sure the gold would be prettier. But I think the normal phase is more pretty.

What is interesting is that from the same sac, so far in two different reports, one in USA one from Europe, the golds are larger than their normal sacmates. I have some of both, sacmates, and the golds are obviously larger. So it appears it's not just a color/pattern change w/this mutation.

What I'd like to get is the Bumblebee, I forget the exact species name, same genus, species begins with letter f. Used to be called H. sp Columbia. It's like N incei on steroids in terms of color. Unfortunately they are much harder to breed for some reason than N. incei, and more delicate.

https://wildesgaestezimmer.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/117057148@N03/15371223375
Neoholothele fasciaaurinigra
Love the green on these to bad tom could not get them going here. (2nd post)
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/genus-neoholothele.279523/
 

viper69

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Wow, I've never seen those before, ive only ever seen sanguiniceps for sale other than incei. I've read those reports and that's why i got the NCF female when my male matured. If its a recessive gene then i should get all NCF slings with the gene for gold, then next generation breeding should show around 25% gold. all assuming the female doesn't already have the gold gene.
If it's a simple recessive trait, sure 3:1. I've only see one post, out in Europe I believe, with numbers from breeding. It didn't seem like there was a 3:1 ratio. The interesting thing to aside from the size, is the gold was discovered by accident, not through selective breeding. The odds of putting 2 random NCFs together and getting a mutation like that, esp for Ts is huge.

Makes me wonder how many gold forms and normals are out there in the wild. The only pics I've seen of wild N. incei were all NCFs.
 

Ziad ElGuneid

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If it's a simple recessive trait, sure 3:1. I've only see one post, out in Europe I believe, with numbers from breeding. It didn't seen like there was a 3:1 ratio. The interesting thing to aside from the size, is the gold was discovered by accident, not through selective breeding. The odds of putting 2 random NCFs together and getting a mutation like that, esp for Ts is huge.

Makes me wonder how many gold forms and normals are out there in the wild. The only pics I've seen of wild N. incei were all NCFs.
3:1 is just a rough statistical guide line if both parents are recessive carriers, I was talking to a friend of the families recently who had the recessive gene for a very mild heart condition and so did his wife, all six of his kids ended up having it. you could end up with all gold, all carriers or all with the gold gene completely absent, its just a crap shoot.
 

viper69

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viper69

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3:1 is just a rough statistical guide line if both parents are recessive carriers, I was talking to a friend of the families recently who had the recessive gene for a very mild heart condition and so did his wife, all six of his kids ended up having it. you could end up with all gold, all carriers or all with the gold gene completely absent, its just a crap shoot.
There are two ways to have a recessive gene and pass it on in our example. You could be an Aa (heterozygous dominant, not displaying the traits/phenotype) or aa (homozygous recessive)

If they are both recessive carriers for a single gene but don't display the traits, such as Aa (lower case a being recessive), the probability of having a homozygous recessive individual (aa) that would display the traits is always 25%.

In the above example, the probability is always 25% as each pairing is an independent event, that is the outcome of child 1, doesn't influence what the outcome of child 2 will be.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Mendelian genetics, nor am I sure if I understood your heart example. We may be agreeing on the same proven science.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_2.htm
 
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Ziad ElGuneid

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There are two ways to have a recessive gene and pass it on in our example. You could be an Aa (heterozygous dominant, not displaying the traits/phenotype) or aa (homozygous recessive)

If they are both recessive carriers for a single gene but don't display the traits, such as Aa (lower case a being recessive), the probability of having a homozygous recessive individual (aa) that would display the traits is always 25%.

In the above case example, the probability is always 25% as each pairing is an independent event, that is the outcome of child 1, doesn't influence what the outcome of child 2 will be.

I'm not sure how familiar you are Mendelian genetics, nor am I sure if understood your heart example.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_2.htm
yeah each childs outcome is independent, its the same as tossing 6 coins in a row and getting 6 heads, each result is independent around 50/50 but the likelihood I think is 1/64. so for the recesive heart condition each child had a 1/4 chance to be aa and display the trait. but the chances of all 6 getting it is 1/4096 i think.
 
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