My new super big black gigantea & aff.gigantea(white leg) eating scorpion

[basin79]

@basin79, I was referring to your point on removing videos like this from YouTube. I agree that the problem at hand is much simpler, but the implications of having these videos removed cause we don't like them is much larger.

By the way, I looked up the video title and description on Google Translate, and it implies a dog fight a lot more than it does a feeding video.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

I disagree. Keeping those kind of videos up just encourages more of them to be made. "Oh look at how many views this has got. I'll make one. The pet shop had those cheap scorpions in and I'll get a bargain tarantula from an ad. Scorpion vs Tarantula in a fight to the death!!!!!!!".

Wanting videos that serve no purpose other than to provide the ill informed and ignorant with "entertainment" doesn't have to lead anywhere else. The videos aren't a grey area. They aren't "well they could be considered........".

 

[Arthroverts]

I disagree. Keeping those kind of videos up just encourages more of them to be made. "Oh look at how many views this has got. I'll make one. The pet shop had those cheap scorpions in and I'll get a bargain tarantula from an ad. Scorpion vs Tarantula in a fight to the death!!!!!!!".

Wanting videos that serve no purpose other than to provide the ill informed and ignorant with "entertainment" doesn't have to lead anywhere else. The videos aren't a grey area. They aren't "well they could be considered........".

I wasn't saying that they are in a gray area, and I agree, "bug war" videos have no constructive purpose. However, if we remove these videos, where does it stop? If we can remove these videos, why not such-and-such videos (I am not saying that videos that show and promote violence should remain, as those have lost their right to be free from censorship)? And then it just keeps going till we start censoring people we disagree with. Granted that is an absolute worst-case scenario, but considering the problems with censorship some social platforms have had, I'm inclined to caution against it over turn a blind eye.
See what I'm saying? I understand both the UK and the US have very different interpretations of free speech and such, but I still think we can learn from each other in this respect.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[basin79]

I wasn't saying that they are in a gray area, and I agree, "bug war" videos have no constructive purpose. However, if we remove these videos, where does it stop? If we can remove these videos, why not such-and-such videos (I am not saying that videos that show and promote violence should remain, as those have lost their right to be free from censorship)? And then it just keeps going till we start censoring people we disagree with. Granted that is an absolute worst-case scenario, but considering the problems with censorship some social platforms have had, I'm inclined to caution against it over turn a blind eye.
See what I'm saying? I understand both the UK and the US have very different interpretations of free speech and such, but I still think we can learn from each other in this respect.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Bob Lee]

That is fascinating with the house centipedes; do you have a source?

It was a Chinese video on bilibili...
Basically the house centipede managed to kill the PT, but got stung too. It managed to recover completely after 3-4 hours.
This is not exclusive to house centipedes, all centipedes (That I know of) have this trait.
Generally speaking the bigger the centipede the less it will be affected.
(Don't know why this didn't send, I typed it out yesterday)

 

[Polenth]

I wasn't saying that they are in a gray area, and I agree, "bug war" videos have no constructive purpose. However, if we remove these videos, where does it stop? If we can remove these videos, why not such-and-such videos (I am not saying that videos that show and promote violence should remain, as those have lost their right to be free from censorship)? And then it just keeps going till we start censoring people we disagree with. Granted that is an absolute worst-case scenario, but considering the problems with censorship some social platforms have had, I'm inclined to caution against it over turn a blind eye.

A lot of these videos are less about making animals fight because why not and more because there's an active fetish community who'll be loyal subscribers, watch everything, and buy the t-shirts. A common thing is to do stuff to prolong the death of prey, but can include force feeding, overfeeding and things like that as well. Feeding an animal that might well fight back, in hopes of a longer death, is a classic.

You don't really need to worry that the videos will be removed, because the makers know how to keep things within the benefit of the doubt. It isn't a bad thing to be aware this stuff is happening though. Partly because it means you can avoid it on YouTube (I didn't watch that video... the title and thumbnail framing says it all), but also so you don't give the benefit of the doubt to people who don't deserve it. Nobody markets their video that way by accident.

 

[Arthroverts]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

That's the glory of Arachnoboards .

@Polenth, I think I can agree with that.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[chanda]

I wasn't saying that they are in a gray area, and I agree, "bug war" videos have no constructive purpose. However, if we remove these videos, where does it stop? If we can remove these videos, why not such-and-such videos (I am not saying that videos that show and promote violence should remain, as those have lost their right to be free from censorship)? And then it just keeps going till we start censoring people we disagree with. Granted that is an absolute worst-case scenario, but considering the problems with censorship some social platforms have had, I'm inclined to caution against it over turn a blind eye.
See what I'm saying? I understand both the UK and the US have very different interpretations of free speech and such, but I still think we can learn from each other in this respect.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

I am not a fan of censorship and I believe in the importance of free speech and freedom of expression - but there are times when you do have to draw the line between what is and is not acceptable.

What if it were a literal dog fight? "Watch me feed this live Chihuahua I picked up at the animal shelter to my hungry Pit Bull. It's ok - the Chihuahua is too small to really hurt the Pit Bull." Should that be allowed? Or is this ok because the animals in question don't have backbones?

This is not a question of censoring people just because we disagree with them or because the videos serve no constructive purpose. It's about condoning animal cruelty in the name of cheap "entertainment" by allowing and encouraging the proliferation of this sort of video on YouTube. The hits and upvotes the video receives not only encourage the poster to continue staging, recording, and posting similar content - but encourage other people to do the same. If these people did not have a ready outlet for this sort of videos, I am certain they would not make nearly so many of them - because the whole point of doing it for most people is for the reaction they get when they share the videos online.

But yes, it would be difficult to differentiate between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" videos. There are plenty of films that document predators hunting and killing prey in their natural environment. There are feeding videos where the spider or centipede or other predator is taking down a "normal" feeder - such as a cricket or mealworm - that is generally incapable of harming it. I would consider these acceptable because they have a different purpose from the perceived risk interaction of the do-it-yourself bug wars videos, where two animals that have the potential to kill or harm each other are just thrown in together to "see what happens" or to impress an audience with how "cool" the poster and/or his pets are.

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

a house centipede being able to survive a scorpion sting makes a lot of sense, given that their whole shtick is breaking off legs to escape a predator that grabs them.

 

[Staehilomyces]

a house centipede being able to survive a scorpion sting makes a lot of sense, given that their whole shtick is breaking off legs to escape a predator that grabs them.

Scolopendrids also seem really resistant to venom. I recall watching a video where a deathstalker stung a S. dehaani in the head, and after a minute of irritated twitching the pede seemed fine again.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Doesn't mean I can't use it for legitimate research purposes, not that there is anything special happening but you get my point.

Actually it is basically useless from a research standpoint. There is nothing new to learn or even significant from this

 

[Arthroverts]

I am not a fan of censorship and I believe in the importance of free speech and freedom of expression - but there are times when you do have to draw the line between what is and is not acceptable.

What if it were a literal dog fight? "Watch me feed this live Chihuahua I picked up at the animal shelter to my hungry Pit Bull. It's ok - the Chihuahua is too small to really hurt the Pit Bull." Should that be allowed? Or is this ok because the animals in question don't have backbones?

This is not a question of censoring people just because we disagree with them or because the videos serve no constructive purpose. It's about condoning animal cruelty in the name of cheap "entertainment" by allowing and encouraging the proliferation of this sort of video on YouTube. The hits and upvotes the video receives not only encourage the poster to continue staging, recording, and posting similar content - but encourage other people to do the same. If these people did not have a ready outlet for this sort of videos, I am certain they would not make nearly so many of them - because the whole point of doing it for most people is for the reaction they get when they share the videos online.

But yes, it would be difficult to differentiate between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" videos. There are plenty of films that document predators hunting and killing prey in their natural environment. There are feeding videos where the spider or centipede or other predator is taking down a "normal" feeder - such as a cricket or mealworm - that is generally incapable of harming it. I would consider these acceptable because they have a different purpose from the perceived risk interaction of the do-it-yourself bug wars videos, where two animals that have the potential to kill or harm each other are just thrown in together to "see what happens" or to impress an audience with how "cool" the poster and/or his pets are.

See, my problem is where this would end. As of now, I think, if it could be guaranteed that only these videos would be removed, that it might be acceptable to take these down because you are right, it just leads to the wanton destruction of animal life in the name of entertainment (which no, that is not a valid reason).
However, I worry that it might go much farther than that, especially considering there are people who consider feeding crickets/other feeders to arthropods as inhumane (I won't even go into feeding mice and such to invertebrates). In this age of special interests and lobbyists, I can't imagine this kind of censorship would stop with just these bug fight videos. The precedent set could be damaging moving forward.

That's my worry for the problem.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[trexpp]

While I understand that centipedes are predators and eat other animals, choosing to feed it a live scorpion seems like a reckless and unnecessary risk - the sort of thing that people do when they are more interested in youtube hits than in the well being of their animals.

I didn't know there were so many comments on this comment.
First, the tongs and tails of the scorpion were cut before feeding it to centipede.
In fact, I've fed the scorpions to the centipede once a month or two.
As you say, of course I am interested in the YouTube hit. (of course I don't think it'll be hit...)
However, it is not that I am not interested in the welfare of the centipede.
I think this video was too rash.
Thanks for telling me your point of view, it stings, but I can reflect.
I'm sorry.

 

[trexpp]

I know a scorpion doesn't really stand a chance against a pede that size, but the fact that you're feeding your pedes potentially dangerous prey when harmless alternatives are all around suggests you care more about views than your animals' welfare.

It may sound like an excuse, but it's not really that I didn't think about the welfare of the centipede. I cut the scorpion's sting and tongs before feeding them. I usually feed them once every 1 to 2 months, so I thought there would be no problem at all. This video was flippant, and thank you for letting me know that.

I'd like to sincerely apologize to everyone who criticized me, but I'm not good at English, so... I'm not sure if my apologies will be delivered enough. I'm sorry to apologize this much. Below is what I want to say to everyone.

I didn't know there were so many comments on this comment.
First, the tongs and tails of the scorpion were cut before feeding it to centipede.
In fact, I've fed the scorpions to the centipede once a month or two.
As you say, of course I am interested in the YouTube hit. (of course I don't think it'll be hit...)
However, it is not that I am not interested in the welfare of the centipede.
I think this video was too rash.
Thanks for telling me your point of view, it stings, but I can reflect.
I'm sorry.

 

[trexpp]

Don’t have anything nice to say, so I won’t say anything....

You are right. This video was too rash. Thank you for letting me know and I'm sorry.

I'd like to sincerely apologize to everyone who criticized me, but I'm not good at English, so... I'm not sure if my apologies will be delivered enough. I'm sorry to apologize this much. Below is what I want to say to everyone.

I didn't know there were so many comments on this comment.
First, the tongs and tails of the scorpion were cut before feeding it to centipede.
In fact, I've fed the scorpions to the centipede once a month or two.
As you say, of course I am interested in the YouTube hit. (of course I don't think it'll be hit...)
However, it is not that I am not interested in the welfare of the centipede.
I think this video was too rash.
Thanks for telling me your point of view, it stings, but I can reflect.
I'm sorry.

 

[trexpp]

Seems like a reckless “Bug Wars” type of thing.

It may sound like an excuse, but it's not really that I didn't think about the welfare of the centipede. I cut the scorpion's sting and tongs before feeding them. I usually feed them once every 1 to 2 months, so I thought there would be no problem at all. This video was flippant, and thank you for letting me know that.

I'd like to sincerely apologize to everyone who criticized me, but I'm not good at English, so... I'm not sure if my apologies will be delivered enough. I'm sorry to apologize this much. Below is what I want to say to everyone.

I didn't know there were so many comments on this comment.
First, the tongs and tails of the scorpion were cut before feeding it to centipede.
In fact, I've fed the scorpions to the centipede once a month or two.
As you say, of course I am interested in the YouTube hit. (of course I don't think it'll be hit...)
However, it is not that I am not interested in the welfare of the centipede.
I think this video was too rash.
Thanks for telling me your point of view, it stings, but I can reflect.
I'm sorry.

 

[trexpp]

Damn bro you don't care if it pinches something off your pedes? I would be super annoyed since those are not cheap.

Is there even anything nutritious in that scropion anyways? So unnecessary LOL

First of all, I'm sorry if the video was offensive. Scorpions' tongs and tails were cut before feeding. I don't know what the scorpion's nutrition is, but I've been feeding centipede as many different things as I can, and I've fed them once a 1~2month.

I'd like to sincerely apologize to everyone who criticized me, but I'm not good at English, so... I'm not sure if my apologies will be delivered enough. I'm sorry to apologize for this much. Below is what I want to say to everyone.

I didn't know there were so many comments on this comment.
First, the tongs and tails of the scorpion were cut before feeding it to centipede.
In fact, I've fed the scorpions to the centipede once a month or two.
As you say, of course, I am interested in the YouTube hit. (of course, I don't think it'll be hit...)
However, it is not that I am not interested in the welfare of the centipede.
I think this video was too rash.
Thanks for telling me your point of view, it stings, but I can reflect.
I'm sorry.

 

[trexpp]

While scorpions can be nutritious, that does seem too far. Already dead/sedated specimens work just as well, so why subject the centipede to the possibility of getting stung/pinched?

@trexpp, I am curious as to why you fed a live scorpion?

Thanks,

Arthroverts

I agree with you.
First of all, I thought there was no danger because I cut the claws and the sting of the centipede before Feeding. I used to feed them.
As you told me, feeding other food is enough, but the reason why I fed scorpion to centipede is, because of a personal belief that giving a variety of food will help an individual's health. Scorpions are the food we've been giving you for a long time.
Thank you for your opinion and I'm sorry.

I'd like to sincerely apologize to everyone who criticized me, but I'm not good at English, so... I'm not sure if my apologies will be delivered enough. I'm sorry to apologize this much. Below is what I want to say to everyone.

I didn't know there were so many comments on this comment.
First, the tongs and tails of the scorpion were cut before feeding it to centipede.
In fact, I've fed the scorpions to the centipede once a month or two.
As you say, of course I am interested in the YouTube hit. (of course I don't think it'll be hit...)
However, it is not that I am not interested in the welfare of the centipede.
I think this video was too rash.
Thanks for telling me your point of view, it stings, but I can reflect.
I'm sorry.

 

[trexpp]

A proper match up can help us understand how they attack harder prey.

The pede really isn't in danger, the difference is simply too big for the scorpion to do anything.

This is one of the things you will never know if no one did these things: bugs are definitely capable of aiming for the head/tail/claw/whatever pose the most danger.
(Plus, centipedes are incredibly resistant against venom, and they can regen lost limbs throughout their life.)

This is the first one that doesn't criticize me out of so many comments. Thank you for saying so.
Scorpions are creatures that I've been paying for for food for the centipede, and they've never had a problem.
On the contrary, they often molted shortly after eating scorpions.
Thank you for saying so, and I'll listen to other people's opinions. Thank you.

 

[trexpp]

Animal cruelty plain and simple all in the name you tube notoriety.

It may sound like an excuse, but it's not really that I didn't think about the welfare of the centipede. I cut the scorpion's sting and tongs before feeding them. I usually feed them once every 1 to 2 months, so I thought there would be no problem at all. This video was flippant, and thank you for letting me know that.

I'd like to sincerely apologize to everyone who criticized me, but I'm not good at English, so... I'm not sure if my apologies will be delivered enough. I'm sorry to apologize this much. Below is what I want to say to everyone.

I didn't know there were so many comments on this comment.
First, the tongs and tails of the scorpion were cut before feeding it to centipede.
In fact, I've fed the scorpions to the centipede once a month or two.
As you say, of course I am interested in the YouTube hit. (of course I don't think it'll be hit...)
However, it is not that I am not interested in the welfare of the centipede.
I think this video was too rash.
Thanks for telling me your point of view, it stings, but I can reflect.
I'm sorry.

 

[trexpp]

I don't "want" to, as in have no desire to see more, because I can tell exactly what's going to happen...

I receive backlash for this all the time, because people can't understand the world is not just black and white.
I don't support these fights, and I don't do them myself, but I also see no point in painting them all black and slap negative terms onto them just because.

Remember the vegans that raided a pig farm and let out all the pigs? Because they think it is cruel to kill animals for consumption?
Now, I know there is alternatives to feeding a centipede.
But there is also an alternative to eating meat.

The simple truth is that life is not equal, our desire for something, in this case for the majority of people is entertainment, really does weigh more than life of other beings.
It really doesn't matter what is right or wrong, because there is no such thing.
If feeding a scorpion is wrong, then how is feeding a mealworm right? And then you run into comments on youtube like "How can you feed that cute mouse to a snake?"

The world is defined by our perception of it, and if someone's perception is that mealworms are pets and scorpions are food? Then that's how it's going to be for him. And yes I've actually seen someone feeding scorpions to mealworms... It was really weird to watch for me because mealworms are food in my little bubble, and that scorpion is supposed to be the pet.
And I really wish that he is wrong, because if he is not wrong then I'm wrong, and I don't like being wrong.
But at the end of the day, I'm not going to change my perception that I should feed that mealworm to my scorpion, and he is not going to change his perception that he should feed that scorpion to his mealworms.
Instead of bothering myself and that stranger I don't even know, I'm just going to go feed my scorpions, because the world isn't going to change for me or for him.

There are tons of argument that can be made here, for example:
AFS are not meant to be food
(Counter: It happens in nature)
You can watch that in nature
(I want to watch it at my house, I want my pede to feel like it's in the natural environment)
Then why don't you stimulate earthquake too
(Because earthquake can kill my pede)
The AFS can kill your pede
(No it can not, the size difference is too much that it's physically impossible, plus I removed the stinger)
How is it fair if you remove the stinger?
(Nature was never fair)
What's the point of doing it then?
(Because I want to)
You are a terrible person
(Why, because if I'm not then you are?)

This can go on for pages but you get the idea
Learning the subtle art of not giving a crap was one of the earliest and best lessons of my life.
Alright, the guy is feeding a species I love to a pede
I'm not going to change that, I can tell that I can't
I will take what I can out of it and move on
And if not helping one side counts as evil or cold-blooded and make me deserve to die, I don't really care, I'm not the US, I don't run around liberating people.

I've read through your roots.
You think about the way you think about things.
I read it well regardless of what is being argued in this article. Thank you.