My big bullfrog

[arachnocat]

I posted these questions on a frog forum, but I thought there might be some frog keepers lurking around here too who could give me some advice

I bought a large bullfrog at the petstore this weekend. The frogs were being kept in really bad conditions. They were crammed together in a small tank with gravel instead of soft potting soil. A lot of the frogs had wounds on them, some on the whole top of their head. I didn't think the pet store should be selling them in this condition and I felt really bad for them. I've had my eye on this guy for a week so I decided to buy him, hoping he might be able to recover.
This is my first time keeping a frog and I wanted to ask some knowlegeable people if he'll be ok. The people at the pet store just sort of shrugged when I asked what was wrong with the frogs. I'm really hoping it's not the red leg disease I've read about and that the wounds are just from being shipped to the petstore or living in cramped conditions. Here's a pic of froggys face. Do you think it's a bad infection or just scars? I couldn't find too much info online. Also, can you tell if this frog is male or female? I've read you can tell by comparing the eye to the ear but I couldn't find pics.

Also, is there any specific care I can give the frog for his wounds or should I just let him recover on his own?

Any advice would be much appreciated. I'll try to post some better pics (showing how huge this froggy is!) a bit later. I've been trying to leave him alone to heal and get used to his new habitat. Although I had quite a time chasing him around the house after I took this pic last night. lol. They sure are fast for thier size!

 

[AneesasMuse]

The sex of an adult bullfrog can be easily determined by examining the size of the tympanum (the external ear of the frog) relative to that of the eye. The tympanum is a round circle located on the side of the head near the eye, and in males it is much larger than the eye. In females the tympanum is as large or smaller than the eye. Also, during the breeding season the throat of the male bullfrog is yellow, whereas the female's is white.

I found this info here: http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Rana_catesbeiana.html

If you google R. catesbeiana and hit Images, you will find lots of pics.

I have a tiny little one right now... raised from a tadpole in my aquarium. He/she just morphed and absorbed the remaining "nubby" and started to eat everything in sight!

I'm sorry I can't help further with the injuries/illness on your frogger. You might also try http://p076.ezboard.com/bflippersnfins. Ask in either of the forums for frogs, or even the ER section. They are very familiar with frog disease and such in smaller frogs... they may know something about these lesions on your frog's head.

Good Luck!

 

[Arachnophilist]

isnt it illegal for them to sell you frogs that occur naturally in your area? and nice frog BTW hope it recovers well.. I wonder if aloe would be usable or vitamin E. I think the miracle tea tree oil would be too harsh for a frog but i know you can use it on animals with open wounds with no ill effect.

 

[Thoth]

I know with dart frogs some keeps just apply Neosporin (or generic equivalent) with a swab to the wounds to aid in healing. I'm not sure how it would work with a bullfrog since they tend to spend alot of time in the water.

As far as I know for legalities of selling native species as pets, as long as it is not a protected species in that locality then it is okay.

 

[iturnrocks]

Thanks for feeling sorry for the frog and encouraging the pet store to order more frogs by buying one. I see the same action with turtle owners who buy turtles because they think the pet store is mistreating them. This lets the pet store know that even though they are mistreating them, people will keep buying them. So when they all sell, they will order more and keep them in the same conditions, hoping for another sympathy purchase.

This is why I catch my own.

 

[arachnocat]

Thanks for the links! I posted a message on that forum so hopefully I'll get some help for froggy. From looking at pics, I'm thinking that my frog is a female
It must be cool to raise them from a tadpole. I don't think they're illegal to sell. This is the first time I've seen a petstore selling adult bullfrogs, but I have seen bullfrog tadpoles at petsmart and some other stores. There are some science supply places like Niles Biological that sell bullfrogs and other common frogs from my area.

 

[arachnocat]

I have spoken with the owner of the pet store and he said they were in fact damaged during shipping to the store and they won't be getting any more in once these are gone. Still no excuse for keeping them that way but this store always has nice healthy animals with the exception of these frogs. I know I shouldn't have bought a sick animal kept in bad conditions as you're right, it just encourages the store to keep selling them. It wasn't so much a rescue as that I really wanted the frog. You have a very good point though.

 

[Arachnophilist]

ok well Im in Canada and I know the petstores here arent aloowed to do that.

 

[AneesasMuse]

Please post back any info you find on your frogger. I would be interested in it, just for future scenarios... should one arise... with my own little one, and to know how your frog is doing, too.

Good Luck!

 

[bugmankeith]

I think over time with care the wound will heal. By me they sold albino and normal bullfrogs tadpoles by the bunch, I mean 100 or more at a time in one tank! I asked them where the heck do you get them all, they said the frogs lay eggs in the goldfish pond they breed, and the tads are a nuisuance, so with each shipment the stores seperate the tads from the goldfish, and make a profit off of nature by selling the fish and tads. It's sad though all they feed the tads is algae growing on the tank, thats all, most starve, or are brought by kids, who dont realize what they will turn into, the store tells people they are leopard frog tads, except Petco, they actually say they are bullfrog tads.

I have never seen adults sold, I imagine most would die, because they cannibalize, and their constant jumping and kicking quickly causes injuries, especially sold in a tiny tank in a pet store.

I used to have bullfrog tads, they all grew fine, then someone my mom worked for asked for them, he had a pond in his backyard, a big pond, nothing fenced in. He said he let the frogs go in their, I know its bad to let them go in the wild, but once they got too big I found out nobody else would take them, I even offered them to a herp museum, they rejected them.

Anyway I heard it's illegal to sell bullfrog tads or adults in NY, as a wildlife professional I talked to said the "S" word when I told him where I got them from, and he quickly hung up on me.

 

[Kriegan]

Awww poor thing I don't know anything about frogs, but I really hope your froggy's wounds can heal in no time, they sure aren't looking good:evil:

 

[Bill S]

Only bullfrog I've kept was one I put in a fishpond in my yard. Did very well with no care at all. It was a male, which means on summer nights all the neighbors knew he was there.

As far as legalities - in Arizona they are considered an introduced species, not a native one. And they're a pest, which means there are no restrictions on catching, killing or cooking them. (They eat anything they can fit in their mouths, which includes all native species of amphibians.)

 

[arachnocat]

Froggy Update

Hi. I just wanted to post an update. Froggy is doing much better. All her wounds have healed and I've set up a new tank for her. I have a nice filter waterfall and a turtle dock for her to sit on. She seems pretty active and I think she actually ate an earthworm last night. I do have a question though. I searched through the caresheets online and some of them say a bullfrog needs soil to burrow in. Others say just a few rocks for them to sit on is fine. Should I add a box with soil in it to the tank or will she be ok in this type of habitat?

Also, I visited the pet store I got her from this weekend and they still sell bullfrogs but they have a set up similar to this one and the all frogs look healthy now.

New froggy home

This is the best pic I could get of her. She was hidin under the water

 

[bugmankeith]

Wow she is amazing looking, great job! Too bad you didnt live by me you could rescue over 100 large tadpoles, there in every pet store here and most dont ever become a frog.

Bullfrogs hibernate so they will dig in the soil for hibernation, I dont know if it's necessary for them to hibernate in captivity though?

As for more land looks like your out of room in that tank, if you need more land the tank would have to be longer (a bigger tank)

I've seen bullfrogs in captivity and their tank was twice as long as yours, I guess because they are great hoppers and they need a lot of space. Your water depth is great, but not much space to hop around on land. Some setups have turtle rafts, but instead of floating, the raft sits underwater, and the frogs climb up it, like a bridge I suppose. It's slanted.

I've also seen setups where flat rocks were piled on top of each other as land, but the water was shallow and they frogs couldnt dive, and I think bullfrogs enjoy alot of water.

 

[AneesasMuse]

Wow! She looks great... all healed up!
I don't know about the land thing either. I agree though, if you plan to put some type of soil in there... you may need a larger tank. I'll ask around and see what some of my friends think.
My little frogger wasn't big enough for me to worry too much about soil in his tank just yet... he was only about 2 months out of morph and just at 2". I was waiting to see how strong he was and saving for "the ultimate" set up/viv for him... then my cat changed the plan. (she's still alive... the cat... but she is no longer allowed in the Critter Room )
I'm waiting for Spring now... I want another tadpole to raise up. I miss my frogger!

 

[bugmankeith]

Just to let you know i'm contacting everyone I can to see if they can find a picture of a good bullfrog tank setup.

 

[arachnocat]

That's awesome! Thanks so much.
There wasn't much info online. My tank is actually pretty wide although you can't tell in the pic. I have room for either one more land area or I could rig up an area with soil in it. I have a small kitty litter pan that I had been using for her water area in the old tank. I think I could put some stones under it and prop it up so she could get in and out. I think she would like her hide log back too. She's pretty shy.
She had been hibernating in soil for a while because our house was pretty cold. This tank has a UV light so she should stay warmer. I also noticed she has changed color from green to brown. I'm guessing its from lack of light because she's been under the soil for a while? I'm hoping she'll get her color back with the new light and warmer temp.

 

[bugmankeith]

I wasn't talking about width, your ok with that, I was referring to length.

Mabye as she ages she turns brown, or it has to do with cold weather.

She used to be outside, didn't know. If she was i'm sure she enjoyed that in the summer.

What do you feed her.

 

[bugmankeith]

Ok got some new information.


I contacted someone who keeps bullfrogs, she said that a 120 gallon is the minimum for keeping bullfrogs, because of their jumping abilities, but she wasnt satisfied with a tank, so she somehow built an indoor pond for her bullfrogs. Expensive, probably, but she said it was worth it.

If they dont have enough room they develop growth problems, I guess they dont grow properly because they are cramped? It makes sense I guess, in the wild they can swim and jump and develop strong muscles.

As for the setup, One third to a half of the tank should be land, and the rest should be water. You can do this easily by buying some plexiglass and siliconing in in the right place so that its water-tight. Your water depth is fine.

She also said your frog doesnt need to hibernate since your in a warm climate. Hibernation is only for breeding really, and i'm sure there are plenty of frogs in the stores by you dont need to breed.

Bullfrogs are loners and do not like other frogs in their environment. They will actually eat smaller frogs if they can fit them in their mouths. Expect anything that goes in its tank to be eaten.

All frogs have a circle that is right behind the eye. If the frog is a male, the circle will be larger than the eye, if it is a female, the circle will be smaller.

Also bullfrogs can get cancer (black lumps) They say it's caused by not enough vitamins in the diet. Sprinkle Prime (vitamin supplement brand) on the food once a week.

 

[arachnocat]

Cool! Thanks for the info. I found someone who works for the reptile rescue in my area and she has a large indoor pond so I might let her adopt my frog. I do feel bad keeping it in a small tank. Once she's been adopted I'll probably get a few fire belly toads for the set up, just lower the water level a bit. I wish I had room to build an indoor pond. That would be awesome. My cats would love it.