Mutation in 1st instar N. chromatus (PICS!!)

8by8

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
234
I found this little guy inside one of my cups I am using to incubate a few hundred 1st instars. Any one ever had something like this? He has two abdomens and ten legs. That little piece at the end in the middle is a bit of stuck molt.





I dont think he will be able to survive because the left abdomen is smaller and a little discolored than his other one. Any advice on how to get the stuck piece off and how to up his survival rate would be invaluable. I manuvered him in to a container by himself to help him from getting eaten during 2nd instar molts and raised the humidity to help the molt come off.
 

zonbonzovi

Creeping beneath you
Staff member
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
3,346
I want to say that I've seen this before, but I haven't. Had some luck with gently q-tipping stuck molts on 1st instars before, but it takes a steady hand & patience. I really hope you can get this little guy through to more molts, if for nothing other than curiosity's sake. Keep us updated!
 

8by8

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
234
I will deffinatly try the qtip. Eight of the legs are in the right place, but there are two between the abdomens, stuck around the molt. It will surly be a job of steadyness and patience.

Only mutant T I have heard of was that exact same one Curious posted of Robs. He seems to be the go to guy with all things tarantula.

I know ts regenerate legs, but say I accidently pulled off or damaged those legs tangled in the molt. I'm sure it would be more serious on a sling (let alone 1st instar) than an adult or juvi, but would it spell total disaster if legs were lost at this early an age?

I hope we can get the molt off safely with all legs, and get it to grow a bit.
 

Anastasia

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
1,848
A saw this case before with a B. vagans
Russians in Moscow had this case survived till adulthood with no problems
CLICK ME :D
 

Bill S

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,426
Just for the record - it's not a mutation. It's a congenital defect. A mutation would be a genetic change that could be passed on to future generations.

As for Leviticus' comment about it being the result of a hybrid -- ¿¿¿¿¿????? Why would you think that?
 

8by8

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
234
Just for the record - it's not a mutation. It's a congenital defect. A mutation would be a genetic change that could be passed on to future generations.

As for Leviticus' comment about it being the result of a hybrid -- ¿¿¿¿¿????? Why would you think that?
I was wondering if it was actually a mutation by definition. But by NO MEANS would I ever introduce any two animals to breed unless I was 100% sure they were of the same species. So no, no mad science freaky stuff hear. Mother was from Eric at Mississippi Reptilian Hobbyist at about 3". I buy from this guy every time I go to a local expo, trustworthy and nice specimens. The two males I paired her up with where both from Barabootom here on the boards, who is some what of an expert in Nhandus.

---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------

A saw this case before with a B. vagans
Russians in Moscow had this case survived till adulthood with no problems
CLICK ME :D
This makes me feel better. I really do hope I could get the little bugger to adult size.

Where did you hear this from? I have been looking for info all over the place and this vagans in Moscow sounds like a tresure of useful info for me.

My only real worry (the only one I could play a factor in) is the molting. If the discolor on the smaller abdomen is due to internal problems I can't do a thing. Higher humidity would help stuck molts, but were at 80/80 (80 degrees 80% humidity) and I am straining my eyes and nerves trying to get this molt off with little success.
 

webbedone

Arachnobaron
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
410
As long as it eats and the temp and humidity are present i am sure it will be alright molting, i wonder if it will correct itself during the molt or not!!?!?!
 

Anastasia

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
1,848
I was wondering if it was actually a mutation by definition. But by NO MEANS would I ever introduce any two animals to breed unless I was 100% sure they were of the same species. So no, no mad science freaky stuff hear. Mother was from Eric at Mississippi Reptilian Hobbyist at about 3". I buy from this guy every time I go to a local expo, trustworthy and nice specimens. The two males I paired her up with where both from Barabootom here on the boards, who is some what of an expert in Nhandus.

---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------



This makes me feel better. I really do hope I could get the little bugger to adult size.

Where did you hear this from? I have been looking for info all over the place and this vagans in Moscow sounds like a tresure of useful info for me.

My only real worry (the only one I could play a factor in) is the molting. If the discolor on the smaller abdomen is due to internal problems I can't do a thing. Higher humidity would help stuck molts, but were at 80/80 (80 degrees 80% humidity) and I am straining my eyes and nerves trying to get this molt off with little success.
I wouldn't loose sleep over, let it be for couple days, then let sling walk on moist paper towel it will loose that molt soon enough, or take a q-tip wet down and and brush lightly agents molt
it looks pretty good and have a good chance of living
but would be interesting to keep on progress of growth and molts that follow
 

Moltar

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
5,450
Like some of these folks said; this isn't unheard of, although it is far from normal. Odds are it will only survive a few molts but it will be interesting to watch it progress. Please post future updates.
 

8by8

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
234
As long as it eats and the temp and humidity are present i am sure it will be alright molting, i wonder if it will correct itself during the molt or not!!?!?!
This thought has crossed my mind, could a "special" T actualy become "normal" after a molt?

Also what would a T like this be called? I belive a phenomen like this is probably not a mutant (only breeding would prove non-genetic mutation, which I will not breed this specimen). But also something weird has happened, so I believe that a mutation MAY have accured, but as a non-desirable mutation inside the embryo. Anyone have any info to prove or disprove this one of many theory?

Someone has to be the go-to place for things like this, ATS or BTS?
 

PrimalTaunt

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
470
I believe that Leviticus's hybrid comment was in regards to Ana's link. Copy and past the text from that into a we translator and you get:

Link said:
This I think you have not seen! We decided to cross Brachypelma albopilosum (female) and Brachypelma vagans (male). In general, do it all "decent spider clubs is strictly forbidden, but it is nothing else to do, or simply on your mood, we made this" crime. " The pairing went very easy, as if it were one and the same form.
Female in two months successfully rolled a cocoon. After five weeks of successful and natural incubation, we took a cocoon and decided to open it. Yes, I might add, at a dilution of tarantulas is best not to leave the cocoon of the female to the breeding of young spiders. This is to ensure that the female would not eat it. And it can happen, if at least one egg zagniet, and the female will feel the smell, then you can be sure cocoon will be eaten.
On opening the cocoon, we found that there are already first-stage larva, left them for further development. It is very simple, put the opened cocoon in a separate plastic container with a damp cloth, as if it was just a young Spiderman. The larvae molt a second time, were given to Dmitry Chernov, incidentally also an avid pauchishnik. Here it is, and found it "a miracle of nature." One spider was two of the abdomen. At first we thought he would die, but we were wrong.
Tarantulas successfully lin, ate pretty good, by turns naedaya one thing, then another abdomen. It was very amusing to watch as he spins a web, moving forward, after it stretched two parallel threads of the web. Now he has a decent size, good feeling. We have already determined that a female and two belly :)!
What really happened is anyone's guess.
We have been offered "bourgeois" and they sell it for good money, but we are patriots of their country, let this miracle will remain with us in Russia! :))))
ETA: Of course there are some words that didn't translate very well but you can figure it out.
 

curiousme

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
1,659
I'm only seeing 8 legs :?
I see 2 legs on top of the smaller abdomen, which makes it 10. You have 2 eyes, it shouldn't be easier for the one-eyed one to see them. :)


I remember seeing Ana's pic now, back before we even got our first T and were doing research. I hope yours makes it this far as well zon.
 

8by8

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
234
I'm only seeing 8 legs :?
Yeah these aren't the best shots. You can only see eight, the other two are what's holding the trailing molt. Works been rough past few days but I'm going to try to get molt off and new pics hopefully tommorrow. I'll also do a vid on how I'm incubating my slings, and the special set up for 'Dub', see if you guy like it or if I need improvement.

Named 'em Dub for double butt.
 

Leviticus

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
357
Yes I suppose I should have said the result of hybridization and not the result of a hybrid, and it was in relation to the russian experiment.
 

TalonAWD

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
1,122
definately would like updates on this. No matter what, it would be hella cool to see grow up.
 
Top