mouse questions

[ScorpDemon]

Trying my hand at mouse breeding, and I have a few questions.

1. Are cedar shavings ok?
2. Max amount of adults in a 20 long?
3. Rabbit food, does it have everything they need?
4. Do I need to separate mom from the population after birth, or slightly before?
5. How long should I keep breeding the same mice before getting new breeders, and feeding off the old ones?

A little background before my next question. I now have 3 litters of babies in the tank, 2 were born the same day, they are between fuzzy and hopper size right now the other litter was born 10 days later, and are not recieving the nipple time they need, though all the females producing milk nurse all the babies, the female that has pinkies right now was nursing large pinkies before she ever had her babies, and this was her first litter, some of the pinkies are becoming a snack for mom and one of the other females in the tank, and before anyone says anything, I'm using the same food as my mouse supplier, Game Chicken food, plus dry dog and cat food for some chewing material. Aside from question 4, is there any other way to make sure the pinkies are getting the nutrition they need and don't become a snack?

 

[bugmankeith]

I dont think rabbit food is meant for mice, they have plenty of bagged food for mice, and god knows alot of treat foods too. Not to mention certain fruits and vegetables.

 

[Aunt Ant]

I'll answer what I know for sure

1 Cedar shavings contain phenols that are not good for any animal. I recommend CareFresh, or check out this list and see if there's something else feasible- Top Beddings

3 When you say rabbit food, do you mean pellets, or vegetables? I'd give pellets meant for rats/mice. Vegetables are ok as a supplement, but give twice a week. More than that, they can get loose stool. Here's a great article for mouse nutrition http://www.rmca.org/Articles/homemadediet.htm

4 Mice are social, so if they all know each other, and they are not crowded, I wouldn't think the mom should have to be separated. If they're snacking on the pinkies, maybe they're stressed and crowded?

Sorry I can't answer more. Good luck!

 

[Tleilaxu]

Also males have a "nice" odor to them.... :liar:

 

[jwmeeker]

This is coming strictly from a breeding perspective on these guys and this is what works for us.

1. Are cedar shavings ok?
I would stay away from cedar for reasons already listed. Pine shavings work excellent. If you live near a farm and ranch supply store you can get a huge bag for about $5. Way cheaper than picking it up from a petstore or Wal-Mart. If you are keeping them indoors and worry about the odor, there are several different beddings that you can get from a pet store that are made to absorb and reduce.

2. Max amount of adults in a 20 long?
All of our breeders are kept in "rodent breeding racks." You can do a search for it on the internet and see what I'm talking about if unfamiliar. Floor size is probably between 5 and 7 gallons. In this we keep 1 male to 3-4 females. I would say that you could get away with 7-8 females to 1-2 males in a 20L.

3. Rabbit food, does it have everything they need?
I have no idea on rabbit food, but would encourage you to pick up some rodent pellets. Again if you live near a feed store you can have them order you a 25lb bag of Mazuri Rodent pellets (manufactured by purina) for about $20 and it will last you for quite some time and again much cheaper than the petstore.

4. Do I need to separate mom from the population after birth, or slightly before? Not required by any means. Some people prefer to separate the females after birth to give them some time off before reintroducing them to a male.
Just remember that mice are territorial and if you do separate them, you want to clean out the cage prior to reintroducing the female. Otherwise you will see fighting or even death.

5. How long should I keep breeding the same mice before getting new breeders, and feeding off the old ones?
We feed off all females when their production starts to drop. This usually occurs around 1-2 years of age. There's no right or wrong answer on this one.

In regards to your question about pinkies getting enough food and not becoming food themselves. You can't regulate them getting enough food unless you separate the females. Kept in groups there will always be some runts.

Every once in a while you might get an animal that continually is eating the pinkies. When this happens we just feed the off the entire cage and start from scratch again.

 

[Kutoja]

I, too, am answering with what I know.

1. As with rats, pine and cedar are NOT good as bedding. As Aunt Ant said, cedar AND pine contain phenols that can irritate the lungs. I'd suggest, from personal experience with rats, newspaper (provided the ink isn't toxic), polar fleece, or aspen shavings. There might be commercial products available from your local pet shop, too, but avoid anything dusty like sawdust, clay-based cat litter, etc.

3. Fruit and veg are fine in moderation, but rabbit pellets might not be good for the mice. They contain alfalfa which rats, at least, can't digest more or less at all. Considering the fact that rats and mice have more or less the same dietary requirements, I'd say alfalfa (or anything containing it) is out. Buy Mazuri or Harlan Teklad lab block if you can get them from the pet shop, (any lab block will do in a pinch) and try this in addition: http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html - note: this isn't a complete diet. It's mostly carbs. If you plan on feeding these mice to a reptile etc., you want them to be healthy and therefore nutricious. If not, you still want them to be healthy, happy and active, right? Healthy animals are more likely to find a good home.

4. Obviously, keep the females separate from the males except for the breeding couple. But separate the male from the female shortly before birth and put them back in the same cage as the members of their own gender, unless you want litter after litter, spaced far too close together. You don't want to turn into a mouse mill, do you? Provided the new mum is on good terms with her cage mates, leave her where she is, ie. with the rest of the females. On a related note, you'll want to separate the young males from the females to prevent premature pregnancy, but I'm afraid I can't tell you what age that is in mice. You might try asking here: http://www.goosemoose.com/ - post in Random Chatter. You might have to register, but it's definitelly worth it. I'm a member myself.

Note: The mum is going to need extra protein to feed all her babies, so give her hardboiled egg once a week, kitten food, basically anything containing lots of protein until the babies are weaned.

 

[Dom]

I've bred a fair amount of mice in the past. If you want maximum production with the least problems you really have to feed them "mouse chow". Not rat chow or dog food. If you feed them other chows they will not produce nearly as many babies or may start eating them. Rats on the other hand are much more forgiving and will do well on regular dog food.
I found it easiest to keep 1 male and 3-4 females per container and remove babies shortly after weaning. The less you move the pregnant females around the less stress on them and the better they will produce for you (I never moved my adults around). As mentioned with the babies separate the sexes so the females don't breed too young.
I let the females tell me when it's time to retire them, either they will slow down in production or start looking old.

 

[Mr.Scorpion]

1. No. Cedar and pine are toxic to small animals, they give off a strong phenol oil that can kill them. Aspen is excellent and costs about the same as cedar.

2. I'd say maybe 10 would live comfortably in a 20 long.

3. No. I suggest lab blocks. They are cheap like 5 bucks a bag. In addition you can give them fruits and veggies in moderation.

4. Nope. There mom will take excellent care of them and they can stay with her until they become old enough to procreate.

5. After a litter get a new male or female. But it doesnt matter if you are inbreeding assuming you are using the mice as feeders, correct?

 

[ScorpDemon]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I have a rather large bag of cedar shavings, and a 25 pound bag of rabbit food that was given to me a couple of weeks ago, and I was looking for a use for it.

2. I'd say maybe 10 would live comfortably in a 20 long.

10 adults, pulling the babies once they have weaned, correct?

5. After a litter get a new male or female. But it doesnt matter if you are inbreeding assuming you are using the mice as feeders, correct?

That is correct.

 

[Mr.Scorpion]

Yes, after the babies are taken out.

 

[Vanilla]

Pine/cedar = BAD...use something like aspen (what I use) or carefresh or something.

I also must add...they may be eating the babies for a few reasons.

One:there is a disturbance in the nest or those babies were sick/weak.Mother mice will eat sick babies,because their wild cousins do this so they do not attract predators to the nest.

Two:and this is most likely your case,there is not enough protein.Nursing rats and mice crave protein in their diets,as the babies suck all the nurtients out of them...literally.Give them a little bit of chicken,cheese,egg or milk.They will enjoy it,get the protein and other nutrients they crave,therefore resulting in fat pinkies and non-eaten pinkies.

 

[Louise E. Rothstein]

Mitten mice can jump out of ten-gallon tanks.
I train them not to while they are in familiar surroundings.
But STRANGE places are too exciting.
They may very well forget.

Standard "mousemobiles" have lower sides than ten-gallon tanks.
And they have no access hatch.
You have to remove the whole top.
They're not right for my mice.
But what would be?

When I asked what to buy for transporting,or for showing,or for shipping
my young mitten mice I was shown two small "Kritter Keepers."
But even ordinary domesticates have been known to gnaw holes in them.

When heavy and breakable tanks are not very practical...

How do you ever move your mice?

 

[ScorpDemon]

When heavy and breakable tanks are not very practical...

How do you ever move your mice?

I don't. I raise them for feeders, I could go into detail about what I do, but I don't think it's necessary.

 

[Louise E. Rothstein]

It isn't.The containers I am looking for are not snake stomachs.