Most dangerous 'pitbull'

[The Snark]

Barely more than a puppy, one of those pseudo pit bulls wandered in and adopted a local restaurant. Typical of the breed it chose the place as it's terrotory that it is going to defend to the death.
So I saw the little chap camped out under a bamboo clump and went over to say hello. At first he seemed intent on wrapping himself about both of my legs at once in a very energetic manner which caused me to land on my butt. Delighted he continued the assault by getting in my lap. More precisely, standing in my lap while trying to lick my hair off. When he started to climb onto my shoulders aiming for sitting on top of my head I was forced to wrap him in a bear hug. With both arms fully occupied there was little I could do to defend myself from his tongue. I had to dump him and make a break for it before I needed a bath towel.
We squared off. He went boing a few times then down on his tummy he charged... well wormed himself at me-> More cuddles? PUHLEEEZE????
Me: "You really misinterpreted your operating manual, didn't you?"
Him: "How about I lick your shoe off and maybe try to climb in your pocket?"

I eyed him as I had dinner when a toddler went over to say hello to him. He threw himself on his back and wormed his way at her. She lost her balance and sat on top of him. He froze. She thought that was a nice place to sit. He eyed me: "Help! I'm stuck!" Some innate thinking in him, he didn't budge until she got bored and wandered off. He watched her go with the most forlorn look.

We asked the people in the restaurant about him. They were completely flummoxed. Not only wasn't there an aggressive bone in his body, he knew people. When an elderly man went past him with a cane he went up to the man and every so gently nudged his leg with his nose then sat down. When the owner of the place went over with their baby he was miles of curiosity, paws up on the guy sniffing the baby. He gave her a tiny little lick then saw he wasn't in trouble which made him wag his tail violently from front shoulders back then run in circles several times.

I simply can't figure him. The sweetest most charming critter I've ever come across but these different ways he treats people..............?

 

[ConstantSorrow]

They're really an unfairly maligned breed. The most aggressive thing my pit/boxer mix does is steal the blankets and take up the whole couch.

I took her with me to the state trucking competition last year (my boyfriend is a trucker, he was competing) and she sat there for hours while a co-worker's young daughter petted her and covered her in little wildflowers. I turned in my seat just in time to watch the girl kiss my dog on the head. Fracking adorable. The dog loves absolutely everyone except for small animals and my sister. (And I don't like my sister either)

 

[The Snark]

The conclusion I've reached is the closer the canine is blood wise to their ancestral wolf, the more inherently moody and unpredictable they can be. But otherwise all dogs can be cuddle monsters if raised appropriately.
What I can't figure is this dog, barely past puppy, an undernourished stray and showing no signs of any training, knew innately how to act around certain humans. Don't be rowdy with the frail old man, not take offense to a child's antics... strange.

 

[BladeGypsy]

Ahhhh, I'm a bully Momma myself.
They are a most understood canine breed group.
I hope someone gives that guy a deserving home!

 

[Veles]

Most so called "pitbulls" these days are not actual, you know, pitbulls. But mixes of staffs, mastiffs or ban dogs (even american bulldogs). A real purebred pit with a pedigree will not be over 30 kg heavy, and most average at 25, they are athletic dogs and not hideously genetically defected pigs like American bullies. They will also not display much, if any human aggression because those dogs were bred for fighting in the pit for almost 2 centuries, those specimens that showed human aggression were culled because they would be a liability

 

[ConstantSorrow]

Most so called "pitbulls" these days are not actual, you know, pitbulls. But mixes of staffs, mastiffs or ban dogs (even american bulldogs). A real purebred pit with a pedigree will not be over 30 kg heavy, and most average at 25, they are athletic dogs and not hideously genetically defected pigs like American bullies. They will also not display much, if any human aggression because those dogs were bred for fighting in the pit for almost 2 centuries, those specimens that showed human aggression were culled because they would be a liability

Well you also have to take into account that there's three different breeds (Staffordshire Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier) that all get lumped together as "pit bulls". So you can get huge variations in size and appearance without even mixing in another breed.
Back in the day, people called them "nanny dogs" because they were so gentle and protective with kids. Heck, both the dog from The Little Rascals and Nipper from the RCA logo were both pitties....although they don't look a whole lot like the pits you'd see today.

 

[Veles]

Well you also have to take into account that there's three different breeds (Staffordshire Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier) that all get lumped together as "pit bulls". So you can get huge variations in size and appearance without even mixing in another breed.
Back in the day, people called them "nanny dogs" because they were so gentle and protective with kids. Heck, both the dog from The Little Rascals and Nipper from the RCA logo were both pitties....although they don't look a whole lot like the pits you'd see today.

True, but i am talking specifically about pitbulls here, dogs that were bred for either dog fighting or animal baiting (or come from lines that are) should be predominantly animal aggressive, unlike dogs that were specifically created as guards/manstoppers. Rotties, GSDs, mastiffs, bandogs, etc.

Show breeding ruins pitbulls in both temperament and health department.

 

[The Snark]

Most so called "pitbulls" these days are not actual, you know, pitbulls. But mixes of staffs, mastiffs or ban dogs (even american bulldogs).

Well you also have to take into account that there's three different breeds (Staffordshire Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier) that all get lumped together as "pit bulls".

True, but i am talking specifically about pitbulls here, dogs that were bred for either dog fighting or animal baiting

They are a most understood canine breed group.

Your comments got me thinking about this. A few little revelations came popping up.
I'm no animal breeder, I don't know blood lines and registered and that world for squat. But follow along here.

I worked for a small change Mafia family for a time as a mechanic. They, along with their associates, owned about half the used car lots in Pasadena at the time. The car lots were all pretty much the same, room for 20 or so cars, an office with at least 10 phone lines, a family member or acquaintance overseeing each car lot, and Santa Anita race track a mile away. 1+1+1. All about gambling. 3 forms of entertainment and income. Seeing who could BS customers into buying lemons, sending the cars through auction and betting on what price they would get, and of course the bookie aspect as they probably mowed through several million dollars a week on the race track. There were also other side line operations like insurance scams, and general dirty tricks which was where I came in. Swapping out quality engines for pure crap that would just barely get the cars through the auction and doing temporary patch ups for the same thing.
These people were pure low lifes to the max. These were - and are, where most of the money comes from that gets spent at the race tracks.
And when the word finally leaked out that I was an experienced wrangler who knew horses well, an animal lover and a former cop I went from being tossed from one car lot to another to do odd jobs to iced. Unwelcome everywhere.

There's no doubt in my mind 'pittbulls' were just like the race horses of today. BS blood lines, whatever works, drugs, poisoning animals, breeding in diseases - any and every dirty trick in the books. And the chances of their being one superlative exalted breed is ZILCH. 2 centuries of gamblers got in on things. There is simply no way in hell a pure blood line didn't get polluted. The gambler crowd would spike a blood line just to see if they could do it and not get caught. And as for fighting ability of an animal, does anyone really think they would reject a arse kicking ultra winner animal just because it wasn't certified max max blue blood?

The present Santa Anita race track slaughter of around 40 horses put down in around 2 years is testament to dirty deeds done not so dirt cheap and the low life crowd having a hand in things. No chance dog fighting somehow avoided the criminal element getting into every aspect of the game.

Ultra dirty tricks. Guy owed the boss of a car lot big time. His pristine 1967 Camaro ended up on the lot and was sold at auction for $600, but not before I had swapped the race built 427 'super rat' for wrecking yard 350. Someone else apparently owed some boss. Saw the chit slip on a 1957 Bentley picked up for $2300. A Shelby Cobra vanished off one lot. A friend who did detail work on the cars mentioned one word to me about it, "Crusher". Sounds just right. They would turn a super car into scrap metal to spite somebody or just send a wake up call to pay your bookies.

 

[Veles]

Your comments got me thinking about this. A few little revelations came popping up.
I'm no animal breeder, I don't know blood lines and registered and that world for squat. But follow along here.

I worked for a small change Mafia family for a time as a mechanic. They, along with their associates, owned about half the used car lots in Pasadena at the time. The car lots were all pretty much the same, room for 20 or so cars, an office with at least 10 phone lines, a family member or acquaintance overseeing each car lot, and Santa Anita race track a mile away. 1+1+1. All about gambling. 3 forms of entertainment and income. Seeing who could BS customers into buying lemons, sending the cars through auction and betting on what price they would get, and of course the bookie aspect as they probably mowed through several million dollars a week on the race track. There were also other side line operations like insurance scams, and general dirty tricks which was where I came in. Swapping out quality engines for pure crap that would just barely get the cars through the auction and doing temporary patch ups for the same thing.
These people were pure low lifes to the max. These were - and are, where most of the money comes from that gets spent at the race tracks.
And when the word finally leaked out that I was an experienced wrangler who knew horses well, an animal lover and a former cop I went from being tossed from one car lot to another to do odd jobs to iced. Unwelcome everywhere.

There's no doubt in my mind 'pittbulls' were just like the race horses of today. BS blood lines, whatever works, drugs, poisoning animals, breeding in diseases - any and every dirty trick in the books. And the chances of their being one superlative exalted breed is ZILCH. 2 centuries of gamblers got in on things. There is simply no way in hell a pure blood line didn't get polluted. The gambler crowd would spike a blood line just to see if they could do it and not get caught. And as for fighting ability of an animal, does anyone really think they would reject a arse kicking ultra winner animal just because it wasn't certified max max blue blood?

The present Santa Anita race track slaughter of around 40 horses put down in around 2 years is testament to dirty deeds done not so dirt cheap and the low life crowd having a hand in things. No chance dog fighting somehow avoided the criminal element getting into every aspect of the game.

Ultra dirty tricks. Guy owed the boss of a car lot big time. His pristine 1967 Camaro ended up on the lot and was sold at auction for $600, but not before I had swapped the race built 427 'super rat' for wrecking yard 350. Someone else apparently owed some boss. Saw the chit slip on a 1957 Bentley picked up for $2300. A Shelby Cobra vanished off one lot. A friend who did detail work on the cars mentioned one word to me about it, "Crusher". Sounds just right. They would turn a super car into scrap metal to spite somebody or just send a wake up call to pay your bookies.

pure pitbull lines absolutely exist, why? because pure bred pits were bred with gameness and physical ability in mind, aesthetics hardly mattered, they were fighting dogs and still are to this day.

redboy, alligator, mayday, chinaman, jocko, sorrell etc. no other breed was mixed in because such mixing would lead to lower quality dogs with less gameness and lessened physical abilities.

 

[The Snark]

@Veles No doubt the modern pedigree is a cut above animals that actually were put in pits to fight, just like blue blood race horses are now gene mapped by independent labs. But the slaughter of those million $$$ +++ horses tells volumes of dirty deeds still going on. "Hey! Give me the odds on sneaking in a bogus pedigree on Wonderdog the XVIII? Can I get 500 to 1?"
@Chris LXXIX Might be able to clue us on just how low, insidious, sneaky, underhanded, rotten and sick the senses of humor are in the organized crime crowd. Sky is the limit.

 

[Veles]

@Veles No doubt the modern pedigree is a cut above animals that actually were put in pits to fight, just like blue blood race horses are now gene mapped by independent labs. But the slaughter of those million $$$ +++ horses tells volumes of dirty deeds still going on. "Hey! Give me the odds on sneaking in a bogus pedigree on Wonderdog the XVIII? Can I get 500 to 1?"

actually no, if you buy a dog from a dogman his/her parents will have to go through game testing. thats a big difference between show and work breeding. only the dogs that actually excelled as fighters get to be dams and sires of new puppies. but they also cost a lot.

you cant throw in a bogus dogs because

1. someone can and will kill you dead for screwing them over
2. you will likely take some pups to yourself, no point in breeding curs

sure, there are some bad dogs in between, but majority are athletic and capable workers for hunting, baiting, weight pull, etc

 

[The Snark]

@Veles It's good to know that breeders and breeding have become much more meticulous. We can't get enough of the animal health comes first mentality.
Unfortunately, 'pittbull+bad arse+pick-up truck+ beer' crowd remains the general rule, not the exception.

 

[Veles]

@Veles It's good to know that breeders and breeding have become much more meticulous. We can't get enough of the animal health comes first mentality.
Unfortunately, 'pittbull+bad arse+pick-up truck+ beer' crowd remains the general rule, not the exception.

it does, but dogs they own are curs.
real dogmen and real breeders are very professional, plus their pups cost a lot so not every bum can get them

 

[The Snark]

Come to think of it I did know a dog that was more sweet, lovable and charming than the OP. Unfortunately he was highly energetic and enthusiastic. He led a very sad life. A Rottweiler tipping the scales at around 150 lbs and very appropriately named Klutz. I tried on a few occasions to visit him but... I seriously doubt a 300 lb fullback could have withstood his affections for even a minute. His human parents said he would have made the perfect mascot for the All Blacks.
He never grew out of ultra energetic puppy in his mind. A couple of dog trainers tried to work with him but were pummeled right out of the yard and gave up/

 

[Crone Returns]

Barely more than a puppy, one of those pseudo pit bulls wandered in and adopted a local restaurant. Typical of the breed it chose the place as it's terrotory that it is going to defend to the death.
So I saw the little chap camped out under a bamboo clump and went over to say hello. At first he seemed intent on wrapping himself about both of my legs at once in a very energetic manner which caused me to land on my butt. Delighted he continued the assault by getting in my lap. More precisely, standing in my lap while trying to lick my hair off. When he started to climb onto my shoulders aiming for sitting on top of my head I was forced to wrap him in a bear hug. With both arms fully occupied there was little I could do to defend myself from his tongue. I had to dump him and make a break for it before I needed a bath towel.
We squared off. He went boing a few times then down on his tummy he charged... well wormed himself at me-> More cuddles? PUHLEEEZE????
Me: "You really misinterpreted your operating manual, didn't you?"
Him: "How about I lick your shoe off and maybe try to climb in your pocket?"

I eyed him as I had dinner when a toddler went over to say hello to him. He threw himself on his back and wormed his way at her. She lost her balance and sat on top of him. He froze. She thought that was a nice place to sit. He eyed me: "Help! I'm stuck!" Some innate thinking in him, he didn't budge until she got bored and wandered off. He watched her go with the most forlorn look.

We asked the people in the restaurant about him. They were completely flummoxed. Not only wasn't there an aggressive bone in his body, he knew people. When an elderly man went past him with a cane he went up to the man and every so gently nudged his leg with his nose then sat down. When the owner of the place went over with their baby he was miles of curiosity, paws up on the guy sniffing the baby. He gave her a tiny little lick then saw he wasn't in trouble which made him wag his tail violently from front shoulders back then run in circles several times.

I simply can't figure him. The sweetest most charming critter I've ever come across but these different ways he treats people..............?

I'll take him.

 

[Crone Returns]

The conclusion I've reached is the closer the canine is blood wise to their ancestral wolf, the more inherently moody and unpredictable they can be. But otherwise all dogs can be cuddle monsters if raised appropriately.
What I can't figure is this dog, barely past puppy, an undernourished stray and showing no signs of any training, knew innately how to act around certain humans. Don't be rowdy with the frail old man, not take offense to a child's antics... strange.

Last century they were called "nanny dogs." People with kids kept them. They're still great dogs. I love them.

 

[MasterOogway]

I worked for a small change Mafia family for a time as a mechanic.

When's your autobiography coming out?? I have so many questions.

 

[The Snark]

When's your autobiography coming out?? I have so many questions.

Me too. And I left out the part about the baby rattlesnake. It obligingly came out from where ever it was lurking in the dashboard just outside Mojave so it was a stroll in the park to repatriate it to the wild.
BTW, still into chess?

 

[MasterOogway]

BTW, still into chess?

I still love the game, but have probably only played 2 games in the last 15 years. I'm enjoying your antics in the chess thread though! I need to download some chess trainers and get back into shape.

 

[The Snark]

Wondering imponderables like teaching a dog to play chess. Ran out of coffee. Certain members of the Corvus genus might be better candidates. Could certainly remember openings and probably the textbook responses. A large group of crows could possibly put together a pretty solid opening. Oh dear. That's horrible! A group of 20 or 30 crows could easily beat Trump at chess going by point count. Need coffee. Tea is for English people whom we all know can't play chess for beans. Where was I? Acorn level fluh?