more haters for the Brown Recluse

krucz36

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anyone think that these guys are actually getting bit by recluses? there isn't a mention of an actual specimen in the article, but who knows.
here it is on cnn.com
 

johns

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it's my understanding that recluses have vey tiny chelicerae, which makes it nearly impossibled for them to bite, much less pierce the human skin.
 

That_Guy

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Originally posted by johns
it's my understanding that recluses have vey tiny chelicerae, which makes it nearly impossibled for them to bite, much less pierce the human skin.



ummmmm...no. They can bite. infact, most people are afarid of them(Well most people are afarid of any spider) and try either to kill it, or run away from it. it is one of the more deadly true spiders. I say deadly because, its not a fact you will die when bitten. but it can cause some "Un-happy" moments.
 

johns

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ummmmm...no. They can bite.



while it's improbable to be bitten by a loxosceles species<primarily because of their fused chelicerae, and their timidity, and general skittishness, primarily>I in no way<I hope:)>
suggested they never bite at all.
 

krucz36

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yeah, i think johns' point was that they don't bite people, and its difficult. but i understand the power of the venom.
from some things i've read (here's one more relating to california) the brown recluse is not interested at all in people. i remember vaguely reading one about a guy finding a few hundred in his bathroom alone, and never suffering a bite.
huh.
 

Buspirone

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I've read that most bites that have occurred are usually a result of the person swatting/smacking the spider while its on them and not the spider intentionally trying to bite a person.
 

Neo

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Neo

Well, who knows. I suddenly have this odd thought, little comments on it if you please. I believe those people in there either want attention, some sick days off, or they said that they can be fatal, which I find hard to say since I know little about them, and so wanted to kill themselves instead of living in jail. Human minds can be hard to tell sometimes and can become twisted under such circumstances in certain surroundings.

Other than that I am uncertain, just want to give out ideas. Back to you John....
 

Wade

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Originally posted by Buspirone
I've read that most bites that have occurred are usually a result of the person swatting/smacking the spider while its on them and not the spider intentionally trying to bite a person.
Bingo. Or else they've crawled into a tight spot (like an armpit) and get pressed into the skin that way.

It is impossible for a doctor to identify a species of spider based on a bite alone, many insects, other spiders, and even some plant spines can cause simmilar effects. The fact is that many, many supposed recluse bites are reported from areas where the spider is not known to occur!

A nitroglycerin patch applied to the bite will negate most negative effects if applied before severe necrosis sts in.

I have read many, many rants about this subject both online and in the ATS Forum Magazine, and that's where I'm getting the above info. Bottom line: the actual danger posed this spider has been blown waaaaay out of perportion to the reality.

Wade
 

johns

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A nitroglycerin patch applied to the bite will negate most negative effects if applied before severe necrosis sts in.



i think you have about an hour or so, don't you?
 

Wade

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No, you have more time than that, but I forget the exact parameters (maybe days?). I think there is annother tereatment that works even better if used within an hour, but bites are rarely recognized that quickly.

Wade
 

That_Guy

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Originally posted by Buspirone
I've read that most bites that have occurred are usually a result of the person swatting/smacking the spider while its on them and not the spider intentionally trying to bite a person.
Your right. But the image I got was that they DONT bite at all...Thats where I said he was wrong. And no spider(Or any wild animal) likes be be around humans. People feel it crawling up them at night and try to swat it off, thats when they get bitten.
 

Farris

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Brown Recluse

According to Recluse Spiders and The Hobo Spider manual from Dr. Robert Gale Breene III, of The American Tarantula Society the Brown Recluse cannot Bite you. Its chelicerae are fused, its fangs are the only things to move, you have to physically push its fangs into your skin to affect you. You have to do the work, they wont bite you out of fear or protection. The brown recluse also causes necrosis, if they were invenomated the skin would be in much worse shape then they make it out to be. Also the spider has a mimic that people confuse with the Brown recluse. It is the Male of the spicies of the crevice spider which is everywhere in the U.S. People can have an alergic reaction to any spider bite depending on their immune system. So it may not be a recluse. Plus if it is treated within 48 hours complications are minimal. Being that some wait longer to seek help.
 
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AllenG

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here's an interesting read...

lol forgot to post the link here it is

http://www.ku.edu/~recluse/painprevention/preventionandinfo.html


if it is reliable, who knows...but they did mention its ability to bite, and what i understand is YES they can bite you, but it does relate to pressure.

just read about halfway down under "!NEW! A closer look at the fangs of the Brown Recluse"

also they only mention the bite, but no necrosis...wouldn't that be a good sign that it MIGHT be a recluse?
 

Farris

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necrosis

Your article says that the brown recluse causes necrosis. So there is a good chance there were no recluse.
 

gphx

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recluse

The nitroglycerine patch does typically offer an effective alleviation of symptoms of the bite of reclusa if administered relatively immediately. I say 'typically' because though treatment appears to have been 100% successful thus far, the sample size is small.

Nitroglycerine works because it increases circulation and flushes the toxin out of the local area into the general bloodstream where it becomes relatively diluted. The problem some people see with this is that bites of reclusa are most dangerous when systemic (system wide) complications develop and flushing the venom out of the local area into the generalized bloodstream is believed to possibly increase the likelihood of developing the systemic effects which can prove fatal.

So yes, the patch appears to be a miracle cure. It probably will be for the vast majority of people but a few individuals may eventually get a nasty surprise. One other thing for the patch though, if someone does get a systemic case we won't know whether the patch 'caused' it or if it would have gone systemic anyway.

Would I use the patch if bitten? Probably. I believe in quality of life over quantity anyway. And I like the odds.
 

krucz36

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so, for those of you living more in the midwest, what's the verdict?
the recluse seems an unlikely candidate for man-eater to me.
also, it seems we had two different thoughts on fangs, one saying they are fused and inflexible, another that they're not. which is right? i tend to go along with Dr. Breene in most matters...
 

gphx

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Just because someone records something in print doesn't mean that they surrender rights to modify their opinion based upon additional information at a later date.

Ask Dr. Breene about it. He may just tell you what I've heard him say, that they are physically capable of biting a human being without being actually crushed, but that it is not very likely.

Don't forget that what is written is an educated opinion. It doesn't mean that it won't change with the input of additional information. This is exactly the reason that many publications are periodically revised.

I know several people who handle recluses (this is NOT a recommendation to do so!). None of them have been bitten and it is unlikely that any of them will be. But it is not physically impossible.

Fortunately this punch packing spider is very timid and bites only as a last resort.
 

MrDeranged

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Hey All,

Just got the following email from Jamel Sandidge, a Ph. D. candidate at the University of Kansas and program director at the Recluse community project and he asked me to post this.

The bite of the brown recluse spiders is very mysterious and the myths that surround the spider and its habits are very odd. Yes the spider has fused chelicerae, but this does not mean that they are fixed in one place; they are quite capable of moving their chelicerae to bite people. The have little independent movement as most spiders do, but they have the tremendous ability
to twist and contort their chelicerae until they are able to bite.

The bite: The reason so many people fear the bite of this spider is due to the uncertainty of the outcome. It is my guess that hundreds of people are bitten each day throughout the summer, but a small fraction of them have negative reactions. But if you look at the number of people who are bitten each year, a small fraction is still a very large number. Here are some statistics from 2000: In KS MO OK AR KY & TN, 2,364 people reported brown recluse bites to the poison control center (however we don't know how many were actually recluse bites) Of the original #582 had a significantly moderate outcome, meaning necrosis and a life-long scarring, but only 21 had serious outcomes (being hospitalized for a long time and having skin grafts and various other medical procedures. ER physicians were polled the same year and estimated that 35,594 brown recluse bites come through the doors each year. There were 24,552,000 people within the 6 state survey area. 37,958 people are not a few. I don't think that this number is an overestimate considering that I collected over 46,000 spiders in one summer from a few hundred homes.

Most victims and experts say the bite won't kill you, but you may wish you were dead. The venom can cause all sorts of medical problems from kidney failure to death. The venom can also be active a very long time after the initial bite. Serious bite victims also stand to loose a lot of money in the transition. Last year a man in southern Illinois spent over $600,000 for experimental medical procedures, medicatons, and eventually srugcal excision, skin grafts, and months in the hospital. This person couldn't work, couldn't walk, and had a crater the size of a small dinner plate on the back of his leg.

This spider is not one to be looked at softly. I work with them on a daily basis in people homes and unexpected things happen. Spiders do fall from the ceiling. They do run up your pant leg. The do run down your shirt. They do crawl inside your gloves. However I've never been bitten, and it's because I know how to deal with the spider. I have had them pushed against my skin
without bites. I've even held them in my hands for camera crews without bites. I handle thousands of recluses a year and have never been bitten. So why are people bitten. Carelessness. The number one spot people are bitten is on their derrière. Thousands of people also receive severe lacerations each year from accidentally sitting on scissors and knives. People are bitten
because they are not careful where they sit, where they put their clothes, where their towel has been, things such as this. No one is bitten because the spider attacked me. This spider runs from light, runs from people, and even runs from small insects that it cold easily kill. Education is the key to preventing bites, not pesticides. When people have these spiders they are extremely cautious about everything they do when in the house. These cautions then turn into behaviors without us knowing it. Just
as you can now tie your shoes without looking down, these people shake out their sheets without a second thought.

I would write more, but most of this is on my website at
www.recluseproject.com also direct people to spiders.ucr.edu run by one of my colleages in California whose expertise in venemous arthropods.
 

gphx

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An excellent confirmation of precisely what I have been trying to get across.

PhDs are wrong sometimes too, but this guy seems to be right on target.
 

Dean W

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sorry, i havent read the last few reply's. there were too many, so ignore this if the conversation took a different turn.


An eggcase of brown recluse came back with me, from a trip to the west coast, and hatched in my home. They fed wildy on the crickets getting lose from my chameleon tank, and grew very fast. I found and killed about 7 - 10. One did bite me, and i went to the hospital. The docters werent sure if it was infact a recluse bite, and was unsure, because their should hav ebeen more damage tot he surrounding tissue. But i know it was, little bastard! It wasn;t bad, i felt a little dizzy, and the sight of a baseball swelling on the lower part of my forearm, was a little unnerving. EVil things evil.
 
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