Molting Q: (Please alleviate my fears)

Zath

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My P. ornata sling just molted, and it pushed the molt out of it's burrow (it chose to web up a bunch of coir rather than staying out in the open where I can see it), but the abdomen is missing.

Is it possible that it may have some still stuck to it? (I mean, I think if it did, it would have higher priorities than pushing it's old exoskeleton out of the burrow). I just want to get a second opinion. I can't see the spider, and I don't want to bother it...

...I -really- don't want to bother it...even with welding gloves.

Also, I'll try to attach a pic of the molt. The legs, to me, look the wrong way 'round, but then again, the last T I owned was a mature G. rosea, and it only molted twice in my care.

 

Chris LXXIX

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You have nothing to worry, man :-s

Leave your 'Pokie' alone, don't let the water dish dry out. Good job jumping from a G.rosea to a 'Pokie' btw :-s
 

Moonohol

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Should be fine. Ts like to mangle their molts; it's even possible he ate the abdomen section of it. That's what my L. difficilis did with her most recent molt.
 

Arachnomaniac19

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Ts, especially slings, have a tendency to ruin their molts. I can almost guarantee you that's what happened. Now, I'd also recommend trading the ornata. Aside from a first OW, that's a pretty bad choice for a first pokie. They're one of the more venomous and high strung species. Not to mention they grow incredibly fast. If you're absolutely wanting a pokie for your second T, at the very least hey something that's less defensive like a regalis. Even then that's still a pretty bad idea. If you're fine without a pokie (for now), I'd trade it for an Avicularia sp. (pink toe). After that, maybe try a Psalmopoeus or Tapinauchenius (since they're pretty darn fast), then a Poecilotheria regalis. After that, then I'd suggest an ornata. Even then you're progressing pretty fast.
 

Ungoliant

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Is it possible that it may have some still stuck to it? (I mean, I think if it did, it would have higher priorities than pushing it's old exoskeleton out of the burrow).
Even if it did, I probably wouldn't intervene unless it appeared to be causing difficulties. (When my elderly Avic molted 11 months ago, a piece of her old abdomen remained stuck to her. Most of it dried and fell off, but a little piece of old book lung is still on there, and it doesn't seem to be causing any problems.)

That being said, it's not uncommon to find exuviae with no attached abdomen (this is the most delicate part and is attached to the cephalothorax by only a thin strip), and it doesn't necessarily mean that there was a problem with the molt.
 

Zath

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Ts, especially slings, have a tendency to ruin their molts. I can almost guarantee you that's what happened. Now, I'd also recommend trading the ornata. Aside from a first OW, that's a pretty bad choice for a first pokie. They're one of the more venomous and high strung species. Not to mention they grow incredibly fast. If you're absolutely wanting a pokie for your second T, at the very least hey something that's less defensive like a regalis. Even then that's still a pretty bad idea. If you're fine without a pokie (for now), I'd trade it for an Avicularia sp. (pink toe). After that, maybe try a Psalmopoeus or Tapinauchenius (since they're pretty darn fast), then a Poecilotheria regalis. After that, then I'd suggest an ornata. Even then you're progressing pretty fast.

I appreciate your response, and yes, It's quite a jump...I realize that now. I fell into the trap of getting something "because it was pretty", and -then- finding out what a mistake I'd made.

I learned first-hand how fast they were (thank god I had the presence-of-mind to open the vial inside the enclosure).

That being said...I'm determined to keep it. It won't be neglected as far as care, even if I'm overly cautious to the point of treating it like a test-tube full of bubonic plague. (I'm making a glovebox for when I need to re-home / re-decorate it's enclosure). I didn't get it to handle, but to admire. For handling, I got a G. pulchripes. :p

I'm no newbie to dangerous animals, but it so happens this is the first "venomous" one I've had. It will be treated with the same respect I'd treat any heavy machinery that requires hands-on attention (mill, lathe, band-saw, etc.)
 
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Arachnomaniac19

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At the very least read the bite reports and watch this video:
Also, handling any T is incredibly dangerous. The only time I'd recommend it is for educational purposes only. A small fall of a foot can easily kill most tarantulas.

As for the analogy to machinery, the difference is incredibly vast. I used many machines during mechanics classes and they're far different to any biotic organism. It's like comparing cats to a catalyst.
 

Zath

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At the very least read the bite reports and watch this video:
Also, handling any T is incredibly dangerous. The only time I'd recommend it is for educational purposes only. A small fall of a foot can easily kill most tarantulas.

I've seen that video already, and read several bite reports. I realize I'm a newbie to the site, but you'll either have to take my word that I'm not a complete idiot, or keep assuming I jumped into this completely blind and have no idea what I'm doing. I will make mistakes, and am certainly not a "veteran", but I'm capable of reading and doing research (It's just that I have a bad habit of doing the research afterwards, rather than beforehand).
 

Chris LXXIX

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The only time I'd recommend it is for educational purposes only.
Isn't that a nonsense? Handling is acceptable when it comes to educational purposes or else, but for the rest 364 days not? Handling is always wrong and the opposite of education when Theraphosidae are concerned IMO.

Aside for those that, in pure bad news scenario, they need to go the extra mile for (try) to save their T's, but that's another issue a serious keeper pray to avoid.
 

Arachnomaniac19

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I've seen that video already, and read several bite reports. I realize I'm a newbie to the site, but you'll either have to take my word that I'm not a complete idiot, or keep assuming I jumped into this completely blind and have no idea what I'm doing. I will make mistakes, and am certainly not a "veteran", but I'm capable of reading and doing research (It's just that I have a bad habit of doing the research afterwards, rather than beforehand).
With all due respect, you have basically jumped into this blind. A Grammostola isn't anything compared to a fully grown ornata. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not going to sugar coat my opinion.
Isn't that a nonsense? Handling is acceptable when it comes to educational purposes or else, but for the rest 364 days not? Handling is always wrong and the opposite of education when Theraphosidae are concerned IMO.

Aside for those that, in pure bad news scenario, they need to go the extra mile for (try) to save their T's, but that's another issue a serious keeper pray to avoid.
If someone is scared of Ts, and thinks that they're cold blooded killers (which they technically are), handling them (the owner, not the scared individual) is generally a good way to show them that they're not out to kill you. That's what I've done online with my Pandinus imperator and it worked wonders with a few people. Obviously take precautions not to hurt the T (small height, NW T, etc), but I wouldn't write off handling as a taboo that's never to be considered.
 

Zath

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Isn't that a nonsense? Handling is acceptable when it comes to educational purposes or else, but for the rest 364 days not? Handling is always wrong and the opposite of education when Theraphosidae are concerned IMO.

Aside for those that, in pure bad news scenario, they need to go the extra mile for (try) to save their T's, but that's another issue a serious keeper pray to avoid.
I disagree. Handling may stress the T, and a fall may kill it.

Picking a cat up stresses it, and with a high-enough fall, it could break a leg or foot. Just because something is "stressed" doesn't mean it's the end of the world. It could even be argued that if you do it enough it will be -less- stressful when you -need- to do it.
 

Zath

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With all due respect, you have basically jumped into this blind. A Grammostola isn't anything compared to a fully grown ornata. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not going to sugar coat my opinion.
No, that's fine. I did jump in over my head, but I made sure to rectify my ignorance as quickly as possible. I now know more-or-less what I'm in for, and am still willing to care for this T.

I made a mistake in buying it...but I won't let that mistake be the end of either myself or the T. I am, if nothing else, adaptable.
 

Arachnomaniac19

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I disagree. Handling may stress the T, and a fall may kill it.

Picking a cat up stresses it, and with a high-enough fall, it could break a leg or foot. Just because something is "stressed" doesn't mean it's the end of the world. It could even be argued that if you do it enough it will be -less- stressful when you -need- to do it.
A cat is built to survive a fall. Most tarantulas that are good for education aren't (Avics are too skittish IMO). Tarantulas also don't have the capacity to learn, at least not in any measurable account. Granted that's anecdotal, of course.
 

Arachnomaniac19

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No, that's fine. I did jump in over my head, but I made sure to rectify my ignorance as quickly as possible. I now know more-or-less what I'm in for, and am still willing to care for this T.

I made a mistake in buying it...but I won't let that mistake be the end of either myself or the T. I am, if nothing else, adaptable.
Well make sure to get lots of experience with these types of Ts (I'd recommend getting an Avicularia or something).
 

Chris LXXIX

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I disagree. Handling may stress the T, and a fall may kill it.
Why you disagree? What you just said isn't enough? ^

Facts: Theraphosidae and arachnids at 360° doesn't exactly needs "handling" nor they get a single benefit from that. Someone, except for me, take in consideration at least for one minute that they have a dignity as well that would be nice to respect? I suggest to buy a portable console to someone that feel the compulsive need to "handle" something.

Picking a cat up stresses it, and with a high-enough fall, it could break a leg or foot.
Are you comparing cats and arachnids and the way those interact, and can interact, with us? Ah ah :-s

Aside for the fact that I always had cats (and dogs as well) in the last 30 years, and that they always enjoyed to be on my arms/legs and to be cuddled, I fail to understand how a fall from my knees, not even 80 cm from the floor, can hurt an agile predator like a cat. High enough fall... well, if someone throw them from the third floor...
 

Zath

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Why you disagree? What you just said isn't enough? ^

Facts: Theraphosidae and arachnids at 360° doesn't exactly needs "handling" nor they get a single benefit from that. Someone, except for me, take in consideration at least for one minute that they have a dignity as well that would be nice to respect?
I only compared cats to T's because it was the first example that popped into my mind.

No non-domesticated pet receives "benefit" from handling. They "tolerate" it, at best.

That being said. It's an insect. For the same reason that it doesn't benefit (so you say) from handling, it doesn't benefit from being left entirely alone in an artificial cage that isn't even close to it's natural home.

Everything about the hobby is artificial, so if a T is docile enough to be handled, then there's no reason it -shouldn't- be, safely, by an intelligent and caring owner.

I had many hours of enjoyment "walking" my G. rosea across my hands, and even letting it wander around the coffee table while I watched from the corner of my eye.
 

Chris LXXIX

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I only compared cats to T's because it was the first example that popped into my mind.

No non-domesticated pet receives "benefit" from handling. They "tolerate" it, at best.

That being said. It's an insect. For the same reason that it doesn't benefit (so you say) from handling, it doesn't benefit from being left entirely alone in an artificial cage that isn't even close to it's natural home.

Everything about the hobby is artificial, so if a T is docile enough to be handled, then there's no reason it -shouldn't- be, safely, by an intelligent and caring owner.

I had many hours of enjoyment "walking" my G. rosea across my hands, and even letting it wander around the coffee table while I watched from the corner of my eye.
Yeah, you know, but still IMO it's completely different, man. If we start now to question that we (all of us) keep animals "in an artificial cage" then, for remain fair enough, we need to ask themselves as well which right we have to decide for the life of those crickets, worms, roaches of all sorts we keep in other, separate, artificial cages as well, as live preys and nothing else.

The answer is simple: don't buy those kind of animals if "you" have such (understandable, aside for everything) questions.

Now what I know for sure is that, artificial or not (I don't disagree with that) when I spot my P.murinus, or P.muticus, out in the open, cleaning their chelicerae on the cork bark, I have reasons to believe (I haven't said I'm sure, mind) that they are happy, even if they aren't in the wild of Eastern Africa. Masters of their territory.

Just like I have reasons to believe that they wouldn't love to be scavenged and put out of the enclosure/home just for a walk in the hand. Just like I have reasons to believe that you, and everyone else, wouldn't enjoy to being grabbed by a giant for satisfy his pleasure :-s
 

Moonohol

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I only compared cats to T's because it was the first example that popped into my mind.

No non-domesticated pet receives "benefit" from handling. They "tolerate" it, at best.

That being said. It's an insect. For the same reason that it doesn't benefit (so you say) from handling, it doesn't benefit from being left entirely alone in an artificial cage that isn't even close to it's natural home.

Everything about the hobby is artificial, so if a T is docile enough to be handled, then there's no reason it -shouldn't- be, safely, by an intelligent and caring owner.

I had many hours of enjoyment "walking" my G. rosea across my hands, and even letting it wander around the coffee table while I watched from the corner of my eye.
Spiders aren't insects, just fyi.
 

Zath

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Yeah, you know, but still IMO it's completely different, man. If we start now to question that we (all of us) keep animals "in an artificial cage" then, for remain fair enough, we need to ask themselves as well which right we have to decide for the life of those crickets, worms, roaches of all sorts we keep in other, separate, artificial cages as well, as live preys and nothing else.

The answer is simple: don't buy those kind of animals if "you" have such (understandable, aside for everything) questions.

Now what I know for sure is that, artificial or not (I don't disagree with that) when I spot my P.murinus, or P.muticus, out in the open, cleaning their chelicerae on the cork bark, I have reasons to believe (I haven't said I'm sure, mind) that they are happy, even if they aren't in the wild of Eastern Africa. Masters of their territory.

Just like I have reasons to believe that they wouldn't love to be scavenged and put out of the enclosure/home just for a walk in the hand. Just like I have reasons to believe that you, and everyone else, wouldn't enjoy to being grabbed by a giant for satisfy his pleasure :-s

You really want to go into this, in a thread where a newbie was just asking whether a molt was okay or not?

Fine...

I'm totally okay with keeping crickets / worms / flies/ etc. as feeders (hell, I even bred mice as snake-food for a time). The way I see it is: We're able to play favorites, because we're human, and in control. I had pet rats -and- pet mice at the same time I was breeding mice as feeders. I picked out the ones I either liked because of their color or personality and kept them apart from the rest, who were destined to be food.

I find all invertebrates fascinating, even crickets (though I like grasshoppers more). I don't feel an ounce of guilt dropping a few into my Latrodectus' web though, because they're not my pets, the black-widow is, and the crickets are her food. It's a necessary evil in a world of arbitrary injustices.

As for the "giant scooping you up and how would YOU like it..." scenario; Yeah, that'd be terrifying.

Good thing Tarantulas don't have the same emotional capacity as we do, eh?

If you want to argue that they do, then constant exposure would reduce it to the point of familiarity, same way that I'm trying to acclimate my hatchling snapping turtle to human contact by handling him a couple times a week, and letting him know that me picking him up doesn't mean I want to eat him.
 
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