Mites on feeders

[PidderPeets]

I'm not 100% sure this is the right place to post this, but I figured since this is related to Ts, this was the best place to put it. If not, please correct me so I know for future reference.

I purchased a few roaches from a local pet shop today as to use as feeders. This shop really isn't the cleanest of places, but it's the only place nearby that has hissers, which is what I needed for my A. avicularia who won't eat anything if it isn't climbing the walls of her enclosure. It was only after getting these roaches home and getting a good look at them that I noticed they are absolutely covered in mites.

I know mites in an enclosure aren't necessarily a bad thing, but I'm not so sure about mites actually living on a feeder. They seem to be centralized by the mouths and legs of the roaches. So that brought up a ton of questions. Are these a different type of mite? Are they safe for a tarantula or do I have eliminate them from the roaches before feeding them off? Or should I not use these roaches at all? If I can simply remove them, how would I do so?

Sorry if these questions have been asked before, but I struggled to find anything relevant when I searched the site. Any and all help is very appreciated!

 

[Ungoliant]

I know mites in an enclosure aren't necessarily a bad thing, but I'm not so sure about mites actually living on a feeder.

I am by no means an expert on mites, but I would be reluctant to introduce any feeders with mites living on them, as they might be parasitic.

 

[boina]

Wow! Really wow, I've never seen anything like this before! You are right, those are not scavenging mites, those are the rare parasitic mites. As the person who is usually all about 'mites are harmless, stopp fussing' in this case I'd definitly not use the roaches. The mites are pretty impossible to get off and I'm not sure if they wouldn't think your tarantula a good meal either.

Edit: Poor roaches . They can't be healthy anymore.

 

[boina]

I am by no means an expert on mites, but I would be reluctant to introduce any feeders with mites living on them, as they might be parasitic.

(What are doing, being up and awake right now? It's the middle of the night where you are right now, like 5 am?? )

 

[Charlie69]

I would take the roaches back to the store, and demand my money back. Also I put my dubia on the avics webbing, they climb just fine there. Maybe that will work for your avic.

 

[PidderPeets]

I am by no means an expert on mites, but I would be reluctant to introduce any feeders with mites living on them, as they might be parasitic.

Wow! Really wow, I've never seen anything like this before! You are right, those are not scavenging mites, those are the rare parasitic mites. As the person who is usually all about 'mites are harmless, stopp fussing' in this case I'd definitly not use the roaches. The mites are pretty impossible to get off and I'm not sure if they wouldn't think your tarantula a good meal either.

Edit: Poor roaches . They can't be healthy anymore.

Ugh, that was the answer I was expecting, but still not the one I was hoping to hear. Since I can't use them as feeders, I suppose I'll keep them as pets. I don't know the pet store's return policy on feeders, but even if they were to accept them, I'm not about to send them back to the place where they got these mites in the first place.

Is it safe to even keep them in the same room as my Ts and a few other inverts, including a pair of hissers I've kept for months prior?

Is there absolutely nothing I can do to wipe out the mites on these guys and maybe have them eventually be healthy enough to use as feeders?


Fast forward to this morning: One of the females apparently gave birth while I slept for the night. I suspected that at least one of the females was gravid (possibly both) but I wasn't expecting babies just yet, especially after noticing the mites. I separated the babies in hopes that I could get to them before the mites did and potentially raise them up as feeders.

Are the babies a lost cause too, or is there a chance that they'll be okay to use once they grow up a bit? I think maybe 2 or 3 mites got in with the entire brood of babies but that appears to be it. Will those few mites end up taking over the babies the same as the adults?

 

[PidderPeets]

I would take the roaches back to the store, and demand my money back. Also I put my dubia on the avics webbing, they climb just fine there. Maybe that will work for your avic.

As ripped off as I feel, I can't in good conscience bring these poor things back to were they got so unhealthy in the first place. As unlikely as it seems, I want to at least try to nurse them back to health.

As for other feeders, I've tried just about everything I can think of, including dubias. She just recently tore down most of her webbing after molting, and she's had yet to make a significant enough patch of new webbing to put something on for her to take. Since her molt, the only luck I've had with feeders is the hissers since they walk around on the walls instead of the ground

 

[boina]

Ugh, that was the answer I was expecting, but still not the one I was hoping to hear. Since I can't use them as feeders, I suppose I'll keep them as pets. I don't know the pet store's return policy on feeders, but even if they were to accept them, I'm not about to send them back to the place where they got these mites in the first place.

Is it safe to even keep them in the same room as my Ts and a few other inverts, including a pair of hissers I've kept for months prior?

Is there absolutely nothing I can do to wipe out the mites on these guys and maybe have them eventually be healthy enough to use as feeders?


Fast forward to this morning: One of the females apparently gave birth while I slept for the night. I suspected that at least one of the females was gravid (possibly both) but I wasn't expecting babies just yet, especially after noticing the mites. I separated the babies in hopes that I could get to them before the mites did and potentially raise them up as feeders.

Are the babies a lost cause too, or is there a chance that they'll be okay to use once they grow up a bit? I think maybe 2 or 3 mites got in with the entire brood of babies but that appears to be it. Will those few mites end up taking over the babies the same as the adults?

I have a link about how to deal with mites on my computer at work - I'll post it tomorrow, because I can't find it on my home labtop right now.

Generally I'd say as long as there are mites they will probably take over after a while. They will lay microscopic eggs and I suspect they may lay quite a lot of them and after hatching the mite larvae will attach themselves to the next roach they find. To prevent spreading of the mites you must use separate utensils for feeding etc. with the infected colony. I don't think these mite eggs are spread through the air, though, so the same room should be safe for other arthropods.

There are some scavenging mites that may use arthropods for transportation, so there is still a chance that these mites are more harmless than it seems. Are the mites mobile, i.e. do they move around on the roaches? That would make it more likely for them to be scavengers using a roach like a form of public transport.

 

[PidderPeets]

I have a link about how to deal with mites on my computer at work - I'll post it tomorrow, because I can't find it on my home labtop right now.

Generally I'd say as long as there are mites they will probably take over after a while. They will lay microscopic eggs and I suspect they may lay quite a lot of them and after hatching the mite larvae will attach themselves to the next roach they find. To prevent spreading of the mites you must use separate utensils for feeding etc. with the infected colony. I don't think these mite eggs are spread through the air, though, so the same room should be safe for other arthropods.

There are some scavenging mites that may use arthropods for transportation, so there is still a chance that these mites are more harmless than it seems. Are the mites mobile, i.e. do they move around on the roaches? That would make it more likely for them to be scavengers using a roach like a form of public transport.

THANK YOU! That information will be super appreciated.

I'll see if there's any way I can separate the few mites from the babies, or at least separate the couple babies that carried a mite or two with them. I'll make sure I use separate utensils and such, and for the time being both the babies and adults are in containers that the mites shouldn't be able to get out of.

I notice a few mites here and there scurrying about on the roaches (that's how I noticed them in the first place), but the vast majority don't leave the head or where the legs attach to the body. My concern is that when I've had scavenger mites before, they would swarm the food I put out, but these mites seem to ignore the food entirely and stay on the roaches

 

[1Lord Of Ants1]

Androlaelaps schaeferi, a species that lives solely on hissing cockroaches and other similiar species that feeds on what the roaches eat. Much of the hissing roaches in the hobby are host to them.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090429132243.htm

Most people tend to paint mites in a bad light. They're everywhere and there's little that can done about it. The parasitic species tend to be highly specialized. If you find one on a roach, it's likely to only survive on a roach, even if it's harmful to its host. Just keep excess food sources found around humidity to a minimum in an effort to prevent outbreaks of ever present detrivorous species. True parasitic mites that prey on tarantulas are rare indeed, and must come from another infected T... in which case the previous source of said spider - whether wild caught or kept in unsanitary conditions with lots of other T's around - would be the main concern.

 

[PidderPeets]

Androlaelaps schaeferi, a species that lives solely on hissing cockroaches and other similiar species that feeds on what the roaches eat. Much of the hissing roaches in the hobby are host to them.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090429132243.htm

Most people tend to paint mites in a bad light. They're everywhere and there's little that can done about it. The parasitic species tend to be highly specialized. If you find one on a roach, it's likely to only survive on a roach, even if it's harmful to its host. Just keep excess food sources found around humidity to a minimum in an effort to prevent outbreaks of ever present detrivorous species. True parasitic mites that prey on tarantulas are rare indeed, and must come from another infected T... in which case the previous source of said spider - whether wild caught or kept in unsanitary conditions with lots of other T's around - would be the main concern.

That was extremely helpful and informative! I've never had these mites on my two pet hissers, so I didn't think of them as a potentially normal thing.

I will say I'm still a bit hesitant in feeding them off because that article mentions there's usually only 20 to 25 mites per adult roach, but between these four roaches I had before the one gave birth, there is easily about 500 of those mites. One of the males who has a significant amount less than the females has at least 100. But perhaps that's because they came from really messy conditions so there was more food available to the mites. So even if they aren't a real issue, I still think I should probably try to reduce some of the numbers. These roaches also look dirty aside from the mites and even smell, so I was planning to at least wash them off. But despite this, they do seem active and not otherwise ill

 

[boina]

Ok, here's the link written by a biologist who actually works about mites.

The parasitic species tend to be highly specialized. If you find one on a roach, it's likely to only survive on a roach, even if it's harmful to its host. Just keep excess food sources found around humidity to a minimum in an effort to prevent outbreaks of ever present detrivorous species. True parasitic mites that prey on tarantulas are rare indeed, and must come from another infected T...

That's actually not completely true. Even roach parasites may take a snack of hemolymph from a tarantula if no roach presents itself, but they are usually not dangerous to a tarantula. Just read the link. It's definitely the best and most comprehensive article about mites and tarantulas I've ever come across.

 

[PidderPeets]

Ok, here's the link written by a biologist who actually works about mites.



That's actually not completely true. Even roach parasites may take a snack of hemolymph from a tarantula if no roach presents itself, but they are usually not dangerous to a tarantula. Just read the link. It's definitely the best and most comprehensive article about mites and tarantulas I've ever come across.

Thank you so much for that article! Based on it, and some further research, I'm under the impression they're some type of predatory mite. They could also be the mites that @1Lord Of Ants1 mentioned earlier, but I'm not positive. They're quite active, fast, and the ones that are congregated around the mouth and joints are definitely NOT attached like a parasitic mite would be.

I don't know what they were eating at the pet store, but they don't seem to be finding it here. I just took a look at them, and the mites seem particularly active today, and some have even left the roaches to wander around. But they are completely ignoring the food and and cockroach poop in the enclosure, so they don't seem to be scavengers.

I have to wash off these roaches anyway, because a few literally have built up dirt or poop on them, so hopefully washing them off a bit will at least reduce some of the mite numbers. Whether the mites are harmless or not, having hundreds on each roach likely isn't healthy

 

[Nobody important]

Thank you so much for that article! Based on it, and some further research, I'm under the impression they're some type of predatory mite. They could also be the mites that @1Lord Of Ants1 mentioned earlier, but I'm not positive. They're quite active, fast, and the ones that are congregated around the mouth and joints are definitely NOT attached like a parasitic mite would be.

I don't know what they were eating at the pet store, but they don't seem to be finding it here. I just took a look at them, and the mites seem particularly active today, and some have even left the roaches to wander around. But they are completely ignoring the food and and cockroach poop in the enclosure, so they don't seem to be scavengers.

I have to wash off these roaches anyway, because a few literally have built up dirt or poop on them, so hopefully washing them off a bit will at least reduce some of the mite numbers. Whether the mites are harmless or not, having hundreds on each roach likely isn't healthy

How are the baby's doing?

 

[Ellenantula]

I know mites in an enclosure aren't necessarily a bad thing, but I'm not so sure about mites actually living on a feeder. They seem to be centralized by the mouths and legs of the roaches. So that brought up a ton of questions. Are these a different type of mite? Are they safe for a tarantula or do I have eliminate them from the roaches before feeding them off? Or should I not use these roaches at all? If I can simply remove them, how would I do so?

Sheeesh! Sorry this happened to you. I wouldn't feed them to my Ts.

 

[Ellenantula]

Ok, here's the link written by a biologist who actually works about mites.



That's actually not completely true. Even roach parasites may take a snack of hemolymph from a tarantula if no roach presents itself, but they are usually not dangerous to a tarantula. Just read the link. It's definitely the best and most comprehensive article about mites and tarantulas I've ever come across.

Still, just the thought of them. (shudder) I am glad I raise my own feeders everytime I see a thread like this.

 

[darkness975]

(What are doing, being up and awake right now? It's the middle of the night where you are right now, like 5 am?? )

We don't sleep over here


@PidderPeets do not use those feeders for your tarantulas. Get rid of them right now.

 

[PidderPeets]

How are the baby's doing?

It's actually funny you ask about them, because just today quite a few of them molted out to their 2nd instar! They seem very healthy, they're alert, fast, and precious little miniatures of the adults. I've yet to see any mites on them and I honestly don't expect to see any surges of mites because I keep their home at least decently clean.

I've felt comfortable enough with their health that I've fed off a few to my slings, and they've all been fine. My plan is to feed off the majority while they're young, raise a few up to near adulthood for my Avic, and possibly keep a few as pets

 

[PidderPeets]

Sheeesh! Sorry this happened to you. I wouldn't feed them to my Ts.

We don't sleep over here


@PidderPeets do not use those feeders for your tarantulas. Get rid of them right now.

TLDR: I washed the roaches under water and eliminated most of the mites. The remainder completely vanished a few days later. I fed a roach to my tarantula a few weeks back and she seems as normal as ever and doesn't have mites


I know I'm probably going to get some criticism for this, but I did end up feeding off one of the males, and as it is, I plan on feeding off the other male as well. But let me explain a bit so it's not implied that I fed an infested roach to my tarantula.

Due to the excessive amount of mites and overall filth of the roaches, I decided to give them a bath of sorts. To much protest, I actually ran them under room temp (maybe slightly higher) water and wiped them down with paper towels. Not only was there awful amounts of mites on them, but there was actually poop and filth caked onto their bodies. I had to borderline scrub them down to get it all off.

The mites were actually incredibly easy to wash off. With just a slightly higher water pressure, I was able to take out the majority of them. After most got washed off, I was able to wipe off a good amount of the remainder while I wiped off the dirt off the roaches.

I washed out the enclosure I had the roaches in and thoroughly inspected each roach before putting them back in. It went from there being an estimated 100 to 150 mites per roach, to at most 100 between the four of them. And because their behavior wasn't sickly or even the slightest bit off from normal, I wasn't ready to deem them a lost cause.

I kept them in a container away from the rest of my inverts, and after a day or two, all the remaining mites seemed to vanish. My biggest theory was that the mites were probably eating the poop and such that was on the roaches, and once I cleaned that all off, the mites left to find more food.

After about a week with no sign of the mites and regular feeding of the roaches to get any junk out of their system, I decided to try feeding one of the roaches to my Avic. She took it a few hours after putting it in with her. It's been a few weeks since I fed her the roach, and she still seems perfectly healthy and has absolutely no trace of mites. I know it was a risky decision and one that is certainly deserving of criticism, but after observing the roach behavior for myself and diseappearance of the mites, I stand behind my decision

 

[Craig]

I guess I am reviving this thread. I really appreciate the information posted. I bought some of the largest Madagascars I have ever seen at a reptile show last week. I use them as feeders for my very large t's.

When I got home I fed one to my large Theraphosa apophysis right away she is less than a yearold and at 8". I put one in with my very large Lasiodora parahybana (11"). She didn't eat it so I removed the roach today.

To my horror there were mites on the roach. This thread re-assured me. My LP is docile so I thoroughly examined her and there were no mites on her. Anyways here are pictures for those interested. Sorry about the poor image quality I was in a hurry to take these.