Melly, the G. rosea with a LOT of issues!

[esotericman]

What is the animal doing to drink or have you seen it drink?

Again, like I said in your previous thread, and along with Nerri, it really does look like nematodes. They migrate in and out, and if the animal only has immatures, it's possible that you won't see them unless you find a microscope with at least 200x (20x with 10x oculars).

I know you care a great deal about your tarantula. That's cool as hell. But I'm going to just cut to the point.

White stuff around the mouth, unless it's food remains is going to be fecal matter, nematodes, or bacteria/fungi/yeast.

If it's nematodes, you absolutely need to protect any other tarantulas you have in the house by using microscreening to prevent phorid flies from moving the nematodes around. You should also not use tools between sick and healthy animals, and wash your hands. If it is nematodes, your feeders are suspect as well. Also if nematodes, there is very little to be done, although an artificial "fever" has worked in G. rosea before.

If it's fecal matter... I'm at a complete loss why the animal would do it over and over. Also the spread away from the mouth parts doesn't fit from your pictures.

If it's a mish-mash of other microorganisms, well, you've passed outside my experience. Moltar had mentioned this possibility, and I've heard of it, but the hows and whats and what to dos are a mystery.

Trust me, not knowing drives me completely around the bend, absolutely crackers. But the only way to know what you have is to lay hands on a microscope. Maybe you have a vet who'd look? Anything you can do to get a better look might help.

---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 AM ----------

I had a simular problem once upon a time. The girl was very skinny, shriveled to be exact. No white discharge/crap around her mouth, but again very thin.

The loss of adipose tissue is normal with very old tarantulas. My first was with me over 15 years, and the same thing happened.

 

[Ixithel]

esotericman She drinks, she bites, moves her palps and everything. From what I read on nematodes when the T owner discovers the wormy mouth it usually dies very shortly after. I've been looking at her for a while and if she used to have so much substrate in her mouth before I wouldn't be surprised if she had the white even before I checked the first time.


Update-- She never ate and is currently chilling next to her water dish. I'm going to try the roach soup on her when I get back from work

 

[esotericman]

esotericman She drinks, she bites, moves her palps and everything. From what I read on nematodes when the T owner discovers the wormy mouth it usually dies very shortly after.[/B]

One of the possible signs of nematodes is head standing, it is not a sure thing. The issue is that saying "nematode" is like saying "tree", which one is it? There are several species which could infect tarantulas. Furthermore, I had a P. cambridgei live for months with a full blown nematode infection. If people notice them and then the animal dies, it is probably because they're not paying attention enough to notice the signs.

I hope you update this thread as things progress. I do not believe there is anything you can do though. I'm sorry.

 

[Ixithel]

Update

She's still the same. Always hovering around her water dish.
Today I pulled her out to see if I could get her to eat. Of course she wouldn't, typical. So I pinch grabbed her to check on her white stuff situation.
I'm not sure what it is, but the white stuff is HARD. Like really hard. Crusted, impossible to break with my tweezers or pull out (not that I wanted to be yanking at my T's mouth anyway) so I drabbled water on it, removed the chunk (which came out with some sub that was stuck in her mouthparts) and took a sample of the crud in her mouth. I placed it on my white counter and went at it with a magnifying glass (hey, what else can I do. I don't have a microscope so it doesn't hurt to try) and I saw nothing movin around. The water on the counter appeared cloudy and a slight brownish tint to it)

The white crusty stone looks similar to the chalky chunks I find in her enclo which I assume to be poo.

So I did as DamoK21 suggested and took a fat lil roach and crushed it, squeezing the innards out into a bowl and adding some water to it. I sucked up the gloop with a syringe and pinch grabbed her. Over the course of five minutes I dropped the liquid onto her mouth parts. The syringe is 1.0 ml and was full and I was able to get all of it onto her mouth with only about three small drops sliding off. This is a good indication she took it in right? The liquid would pool up and then go down enough so I could add more...just seems like good news to me. If she didn't consume any of it I'm certain most of it would puddle up and drool off.

She also seemed to get a bit excited when I squished a gooey gut piece out onto her mouth. Her fangs went wild and it disappeared into the cloudy soup mixture.

After the last drop I put her in her enclosure with fresh water and placed her back in my closet away from the others. I'm not sure if this is a good start or if nothing will change. What do you guys think? I am probably going to try this again in a few days and see if I can get her fat and healthy.

 

[Meecht]

Maybe you could take a sample of the white stuff to a local vet? Even if they don't have experience with exotic pets, they would still have a microscope to check for parasites in fecal samples of dogs/cats. They might be willing to either let you use their equipment (doubtful), or at least inspect the sample themselves for anything unusual.


Totally uneducated question, but is it possible that the white spot was originally caused by the T being over-eager for a meal and puncturing herself with her own fangs? Will hemolymph harden into a sort of scab to stop further loss?

 

[Ixithel]

Maybe you could take a sample of the white stuff to a local vet? Even if they don't have experience with exotic pets, they would still have a microscope to check for parasites in fecal samples of dogs/cats. They might be willing to either let you use their equipment (doubtful), or at least inspect the sample themselves for anything unusual.


Totally uneducated question, but is it possible that the white spot was originally caused by the T being over-eager for a meal and puncturing herself with her own fangs? Will hemolymph harden into a sort of scab to stop further loss?

I wanted to take a sample to my old science teacher...she was the one who got me wanting Ts...but her ass never even replied x.x I'm gonna send her another mail.

and I have no idea...I feel like the white isn't even IN her mouth, but on the outside, Gah it's so hard to tell, none of my Ts are this weird except my A.avic who hasn't eaten ever since i got him

 

[Ixithel]

UPDATE....sorta?

Wellll...I checked her mouth, she has chunky crusties but most of it's from the syringe feeding I attempted doing. Also the chalky white stuff of course, still not eating, still skinny, but so damn cute. T.T

Scrawny...

Ignoring...

NOT interested (wasn't even biting)

D'awwww T.T

 

[Meecht]

Were you ever able to contact your science teacher?

I don't know if you saw it or not, but I found this post on the forum from a person with a similar problem

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=59650

Their T recovered, but unexpectedly died a few months later.

Another forum user sent a sample of the discharge to a non-profit organization called the Research Institute for Exotic Species Microbiology to be tested, and the results came back as a type of yeast (http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13052).

I don't know if the institute is still around because that post is from 8 years ago, and the URL given for the institute is no longer working. However, one of the members listed their email address in the post. Maybe you could try to contact them to see if they ever came to any conclusions as to cause and/or possible treatment.

I didn't read your previous thread, so I hope this isn't all duplicate info.

 

[Ixithel]

Were you ever able to contact your science teacher?

I don't know if you saw it or not, but I found this post on the forum from a person with a similar problem

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=59650

Their T recovered, but unexpectedly died a few months later.

Another forum user sent a sample of the discharge to a non-profit organization called the Research Institute for Exotic Species Microbiology to be tested, and the results came back as a type of yeast (http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13052).

I don't know if the institute is still around because that post is from 8 years ago, and the URL given for the institute is no longer working. However, one of the members listed their email address in the post. Maybe you could try to contact them to see if they ever came to any conclusions as to cause and/or possible treatment.

I didn't read your previous thread, so I hope this isn't all duplicate info.

I haven't yet got a response from her, but I think I will send her another one right now.

I took a look at those links and hmm...it does rather sound like a yeast. I HIGHLY doubt its nematodes because she's had this problem for as long as I could remember, probably had it when I bought her and she's still alive. When nematode glop forms at the mouth their supposed to die shortly after.

I'll also try to contact them. Thanks

 

[LV-426]

i wonder, is there necrotic tissue or is this an interna problem.?

 

[demonanjel117]

Any progress?

 

[Ixithel]

There has been no progress. Though her behavior is really strange, I never gave it much thought but she's always done this.


Day in a life of Melly:

I wake up and there she is, curled over her water bowl. Not actually over it but more like she's hanging on it and then flopped over. She remains like this most of the day.

Occasionally she will get up and go huddle near the side of in her burrow but 90% of her time spent is in that same position near her water bowl. She also dips the tips of her first sets of legs into it. Sometimes I get concerned and lift the enclosure to get a better look, take the top off or maybe blow a puff on her. She moves. She's always done this ever since of being in my care but I fear she's becoming more lethargic. Though when I DO bother her and stroke her back leg with the paintbrush she turns around instantly and spreads out like she should, grabbing the brush and thats about it.

She still walks normal, fangs still move like a bat out of hell when I pinch grab her but she pretty much leans on the water dish most of the day.

Maybe the water dish is too high? Idk, I don't feel like it is but maybe for her.... not sure. I live in WA so you already know it's humid enough in here. I never mist her enclo, just leave that big ol' water dish.


No one ever emailed me back either so I'm at a loss once again. I also don't really trust myself to pinch grab her anymore, possibly because i'm stupid and not sure how to do it right as she always flails her legs and digs her feet hooks into my skin and pulls herself out of the hold and yeah...not sure i'm ready to get tagged. >.>

She currently has a roach that lives with her somewhere as well

Edit- her dish is usually always clean and I removed that leaf that she put in there by herself a while ago

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

There has been no progress. Though her behavior is really strange, I never gave it much thought but she's always done this.


Day in a life of Melly:

I wake up and there she is, curled over her water bowl. Not actually over it but more like she's hanging on it and then flopped over. She remains like this most of the day.

Occasionally she will get up and go huddle near the side of in her burrow but 90% of her time spent is in that same position near her water bowl. She also dips the tips of her first sets of legs into it. Sometimes I get concerned and lift the enclosure to get a better look, take the top off or maybe blow a puff on her. She moves. She's always done this ever since of being in my care but I fear she's becoming more lethargic. Though when I DO bother her and stroke her back leg with the paintbrush she turns around instantly and spreads out like she should, grabbing the brush and thats about it.

She still walks normal, fangs still move like a bat out of hell when I pinch grab her but she pretty much leans on the water dish most of the day.

Maybe the water dish is too high? Idk, I don't feel like it is but maybe for her.... not sure. I live in WA so you already know it's humid enough in here. I never mist her enclo, just leave that big ol' water dish.


No one ever emailed me back either so I'm at a loss once again. I also don't really trust myself to pinch grab her anymore, possibly because i'm stupid and not sure how to do it right as she always flails her legs and digs her feet hooks into my skin and pulls herself out of the hold and yeah...not sure i'm ready to get tagged. >.>

She currently has a roach that lives with her somewhere as well

Edit- her dish is usually always clean and I removed that leaf that she put in there by herself a while ago

Listen....Clean the water dish out...Then add fresh luke warm water to it. Next get a cue tip and get that white gunk out of her mouth parts. Thats why she is not eating man...I would have the rest of the container pretty dry other than the water dish.

 

[Ixithel]

Listen....Clean the water dish out...Then add fresh luke warm water to it. Next get a cue tip and get that white gunk out of her mouth parts. Thats why she is not eating man...I would have the rest of the container pretty dry other than the water dish.

The water dish is clean, that pic was old, I simply put it up to display how she huddles near her dish. I've cleaned her mouth many times and she still doesn't eat, the white crusties come back a day or two later and the water I give her is room temp.

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

The water dish is clean, that pic was old, I simply put it up to display how she huddles near her dish. I've cleaned her mouth many times and she still doesn't eat, the white crusties come back a day or two later and the water I give her is room temp.

It is a fungus...Your going to need to find something to apply that isn't harmful to her but will kill the fungus..Let me think it over and I will come up with an idea for you. She will most likely die if you don't kill the fungus

 

[Ixithel]

Good news

My science teacher got back to me today and informed me that she could not as she was on maternity leave, however another science teacher of that school would be happy to let me borrow a microscope.

What are things I should look for? Does anyone have a link to a picture of nematodes under a scope?

Also as Meecht suggested I messaged one of the members of that institute and though it is no longer around, that member is going to try and assist me with her condition. I'll keep you guys updated. Melly as of right now is leaning on her dish like usual.

 

[demonanjel117]

I saw this and I got kinda nauseous for a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYF40l88nP8

and this. http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18272

 

[Ixithel]

I saw this and I got kinda nauseous for a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYF40l88nP8

and this. http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18272

Well damn *reading post* how am I supposed to get her on her back? O.O not even possible for this T

 

[Meecht]

The common factor with nematodes seems to be a visibly writhing mass around the mouth of the T. From what you've described and taken pictures of this doesn't seem to be the case for your situation as the discharge dries.

You said you took a sample and placed a few drops of water on it with no reaction. Did you ever fully submerge or dissolve any of the dried discharge to see if anything came out?

As for getting her on her back, you might be able to anesthetize her? I am by no means even remotely an expert on that, so I'd leave any explanation on that to somebody else.

 

[PhobeToPhile]

For fungus, one of the dyes, either a blue or a pruple one, will work. The purple is genetian violet, but I forget the name of the blue dye. And by either, I mean "one of these". Don't remember which off the top of my head.