Lots of Phidippus regius Jumping Spiders

[Breeanna]

Ok. I have ALOT of these beautiful little creatures. Some shy some not.
My daughter received a female a year ago for her birthday from her aunt.
Well she was pregnant. For a beginner I didn’t know what to do. But I managed to keep half of them alive. Stressful for me but worth it.
Anyway. I do want to work for some kind of exotic pet shop and continue breeding them. I also got into making HUGE meal worm farms. Any advice would be helpful.
One more thing.
is it possible to mate male and female from the same sac once they fully mature?

 

[The Snark]

Cpngrats + on the breeding program. Adorable little sporks, aren't they?

My daughter received a female a year ago for her birthday from her aunt.
Well she was pregnant.

An aside, the wonderful world of English language pitfalls - in this case juxtapostion. Your daughter was pregnant or her aunt? Oh wait!...
(Apologies. I'm only making fun of our silly language.)

Anyway. I do want to work for some kind of exotic pet shop and continue breeding them.

Beware. Proceed with caution. Working for the wrong store or company where animals turn into merchandise and profits come before that animal's welfare can be infuriating and sour your interest.

is it possible to mate male and female from the same sac once they fully mature?

Should be possible, yes. Males will usually mature first and quite often 'jump the gun so to speak. Attempting or allowing them to mate when the female hasn't fully matured can often turn into a fratricide circus. Male-> Yeay! Nooky!! Female-> Yeay! Dinner!!
And it bears mentioning, as I understand it, it can be difficult to prevent inbreeding. But spiders as a general rule are, pardon the expression, extreme mongrels, So many minor genetic variations in the species blood line that inbreeding really isn't a an issue or cause for concern.

 

[egyptiancrow]

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

this group has a ton of resources for breeding + raising babies!

 

[Breeanna]

Cpngrats + on the breeding program. Adorable little sporks, aren't they?


An aside, the wonderful world English language pitfalls - in this case juxtapostion. Your daughter was pregnant or her aunt? Oh wait!...
(Apologies. I'm only making fun of our silly language.)
I definitely should have went into more detail. Thanks for laugh

Beware. Proceed with caution. Working for the wrong store or company where animals turn into merchandise and profits come before that animal's welfare can be infuriating and sour your interest.
I have yet sold a spider. I’ve had a few encounters where acquaintances offers to buy one or two. My worries (for my 8 legged babies) won’t be cared for the right way turns my stomach. Baffles me that I still haven’t let any of them go. I was hesitant about the pet shops.
I appreciate you. Thank you


Should be possible, yes. Males will usually mature first and quite often 'jump the gun so to speak. Attempting or allowing them to mate when the female hasn't fully matured can often turn into a fratricide circus. Male-> Yeay! Nooky!! Female-> Yeay! Dinner!!
And it bears mentioning, as I understand it, it can be difficult to prevent inbreeding. But spiders as a general rule are, pardon the expression, extreme mongrels, So many minor genetic variations in the species blood line that inbreeding really isn't a an issue or cause for concern.

Thank you

 

[Breeanna]

Thank you

Thank you

Cpngrats + on the breeding program. Adorable little sporks, aren't they? Thank you Yes, they are adorable


An aside, the wonderful world of English language pitfalls - in this case juxtapostion. Your daughter was pregnant or her aunt? Oh wait!...
(Apologies. I'm only making fun of our silly language.)


Beware. Proceed with caution. Working for the wrong store or company where animals turn into merchandise and profits come before that animal's welfare can be infuriating and sour your interest.


Should be possible, yes. Males will usually mature first and quite often 'jump the gun so to speak. Attempting or allowing them to mate when the female hasn't fully matured can often turn into a fratricide circus. Male-> Yeay! Nooky!! Female-> Yeay! Dinner!!
And it bears mentioning, as I understand it, it can be difficult to prevent inbreeding. But spiders as a general rule are, pardon the expression, extreme mongrels, So many minor genetic variations in the species blood line that inbreeding really isn't a an issue or cause for concern.

 

[Wolfram1]

I have a friend that bred them successfully a few times but they always started to stop reproducing for him in the 3rd generation. Some would lay empthy eggsacks or simply not lay at all.

He is not sure if it was an inbreeding issue or if it had to do with the lack of a winter period.

If i were you i would mix in new genes every 2 generations just to be safe.

 

[egyptiancrow]

I have a friend that bred them successfully a few times but they always started to stop reproducing for him in the 3rd generation. Some would lay empthy eggsacks or simply not lay at all.

He is not sure if it was an inbreeding issue or if it had to do with the lack of a winter period.

If i were you i would mix in new genes every 2 generations just to be safe.

definitely inbreeding if thats what hes doing. completely kills the lines. you shouldnt inbreed even 1 gen.

 

[Wolfram1]

Yea, probably. He stopped keeping them because importing fresh lines of P. regius every year is a hassle and makes it not very sustainable.

 

[The Snark]

I have a friend that bred them successfully a few times but they always started to stop reproducing for him in the 3rd generation. Some would lay empthy eggsacks or simply not lay at all.

He is not sure if it was an inbreeding issue or if it had to do with the lack of a winter period.

If i were you i would mix in new genes every 2 generations just to be safe.

definitely inbreeding if thats what hes doing. completely kills the lines. you shouldnt inbreed even 1 gen.

Speaking of inbreedings, I gots me a new bastard child search engine. Let's see what puddles it leaves by the rose bushes.

Inbreeding avoidance in spiders: evidence for rescue effect in fecundity of female spiders with outbreeding opportunity - PubMed

Selection by inbreeding depression should favour mating biases that reduce the risk of fertilization by related mates. However, equivocal evidence for inbreeding avoidance questions the strength of inbreeding depression as a selective force in the evolution of mating biases. Lack of inbreeding...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://alexeimaklakov.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/bilde-et-al-2007b-inbreeding-avoidance-in-spiders.pdf

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1420-9101.2006.01280.x

The evolution of social inbreeding mating systems in spiders: limited male mating dispersal and lack of pre-copulatory inbreeding avoidance in a subsocial predecessor

Abstract. Cooperation and group living are extremely rare in spiders and only few species are known to be permanently social. Inbreeding is a key character

academic.oup.com

The transition to social inbred mating systems in spiders: role of inbreeding tolerance in a subsocial predecessor - PubMed

The social spiders are unusual among cooperatively breeding animals in being highly inbred. In contrast, most other social organisms are outbred owing to inbreeding avoidance mechanisms. The social spiders appear to originate from solitary subsocial ancestors, implying a transition from...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Male Spiders Have Safer Sex With Siblings

Inbreeding isn’t worth dying for, even in a spider species where males routinely pay for sex with their lives. Sex is never safe for males of the species Argiope bruennichi, one of Europe’s common orb-web spiders. In lab tests conducted by behavioral ecologists at the Zoological Institute and...

www.wired.com

THE TRANSITION TO SOCIAL INBRED MATING SYSTEMS IN SPIDERS: ROLE OF INBREEDING TOLERANCE IN A SUBSOCIAL PREDECESSOR

The social spiders are unusual among cooperatively breeding animals in being highly inbred. In contrast, most other social organisms are outbred owing to inbreeding avoidance mechanisms. The social spiders appear to originate from solitary subsocial ancestors, implying a transition from...

bioone.org

Hmmm. Not bad. Interesting. Appears to infer that inbreeding in pholcids may be the cause of their communal natures.

 

[egyptiancrow]

Speaking of inbreedings, I gots me a new bastard child search engine. Let's see what puddles it leaves by the rose bushes.

Inbreeding avoidance in spiders: evidence for rescue effect in fecundity of female spiders with outbreeding opportunity - PubMed

Selection by inbreeding depression should favour mating biases that reduce the risk of fertilization by related mates. However, equivocal evidence for inbreeding avoidance questions the strength of inbreeding depression as a selective force in the evolution of mating biases. Lack of inbreeding...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://alexeimaklakov.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/bilde-et-al-2007b-inbreeding-avoidance-in-spiders.pdf

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1420-9101.2006.01280.x

The evolution of social inbreeding mating systems in spiders: limited male mating dispersal and lack of pre-copulatory inbreeding avoidance in a subsocial predecessor

Abstract. Cooperation and group living are extremely rare in spiders and only few species are known to be permanently social. Inbreeding is a key character

academic.oup.com

The transition to social inbred mating systems in spiders: role of inbreeding tolerance in a subsocial predecessor - PubMed

The social spiders are unusual among cooperatively breeding animals in being highly inbred. In contrast, most other social organisms are outbred owing to inbreeding avoidance mechanisms. The social spiders appear to originate from solitary subsocial ancestors, implying a transition from...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Male Spiders Have Safer Sex With Siblings

Inbreeding isn’t worth dying for, even in a spider species where males routinely pay for sex with their lives. Sex is never safe for males of the species Argiope bruennichi, one of Europe’s common orb-web spiders. In lab tests conducted by behavioral ecologists at the Zoological Institute and...

www.wired.com

THE TRANSITION TO SOCIAL INBRED MATING SYSTEMS IN SPIDERS: ROLE OF INBREEDING TOLERANCE IN A SUBSOCIAL PREDECESSOR

The social spiders are unusual among cooperatively breeding animals in being highly inbred. In contrast, most other social organisms are outbred owing to inbreeding avoidance mechanisms. The social spiders appear to originate from solitary subsocial ancestors, implying a transition from...

bioone.org

Hmmm. Not bad. Interesting. Appears to infer that inbreeding in pholcids may be the cause of their communal natures.

This is not the case in jumping spiders, where males mature much faster than females and often die much sooner, and they are solitary and disperse at birth. This is all evolutionarily to avoid inbreeding. Inbreeding is seriously harmful in jumping spiders, it causes defects, failure to thrive, and sometimes sterility/infertility.

sincerely a jumping spider breeder!

 

[Wolfram1]

This is not the case in jumping spiders, where males mature much faster than females and often die much sooner, and they are solitary and disperse at birth. This is all evolutionarily to avoid inbreeding. Inbreeding is seriously harmful in jumping spiders, it causes defects, failure to thrive, and sometimes sterility/infertility.

sincerely a jumping spider breeder!

How do you handle it? I assume you have to keep several genetic lines seperatly and cross them over regularly?

So if we apply that back to the OPs question it means she should avoid pairing their related Spiders if she wants to keep them healthy long term right?

How often do you have to buy or catch fresh lines to mix into your breeding stock? I assume you can space it out by a few years by keeping several unrelated lines?

 

[egyptiancrow]

How do you handle it? I assume you have to keep several genetic lines seperatly and cross them over regularly?

So if we apply that back to the OPs question it means she should avoid pairing their related Spiders if she wants to keep them healthy long term right?

How often do you have to buy or catch fresh lines to mix into your breeding stock? I assume you can space it out by a few years by keeping several unrelated lines?

i have a network of breeders and we are all always getting our stock from various places, expos, importers, the occasional wild caught, and each others lines. We keep track of mothers and origins and keep several lines which are wholly unrelated and then outsource and trade with each other. Since species like Phidippus regius are soooo commonly kept, its very easy to get plenty of them without wild catching much at all. For other species which arent as common there is still need to. I think eventually itll be possible not to need to anymore, and thats my personal hope. The more breeders running their own lines, the better!

and yeah, pairing related spiders is just asking for low rates of healthy babies, and tons of deaths. i cant tell anyone what to do, but it just is obviously not the result most people want. the absolute worst is when some of them survive, and grow up all the way to adulthood, and mate successfully. and then nothing. because they are sterile/infertile. you cant know until that point and even until they die, its so unfortunate.

 

[Wolfram1]

i have a network of breeders and we are all always getting our stock from various places, expos, importers, the occasional wild caught, and each others lines. We keep track of mothers and origins and keep several lines which are wholly unrelated and then outsource and trade with each other. Since species like Phidippus regius are soooo commonly kept, its very easy to get plenty of them without wild catching much at all. For other species which arent as common there is still need to. I think eventually itll be possible not to need to anymore, and thats my personal hope. The more breeders running their own lines, the better!

and yeah, pairing related spiders is just asking for low rates of healthy babies, and tons of deaths. i cant tell anyone what to do, but it just is obviously not the result most people want. the absolute worst is when some of them survive, and grow up all the way to adulthood, and mate successfully. and then nothing. because they are sterile/infertile. you cant know until that point and even until they die, its so unfortunate.

Thank you for the reply! I will certainly relay the information. I guess that means he wont have to try all over again with P. texanus and P. adumbratus as his was the only import this year he is aware of and there are no established breeders around. A shame but if no purely captive lines can be created it is a waste of effort.

Doubly a shame because he has almost perfected his husbandry, almost none of his slings ever die.

I guess that means he will quit keeping them but who knows.

 

[egyptiancrow]

Thank you for the reply! I will certainly relay the information. I guess that means he wont have to try all over again with P. texanus and P. adumbratus as his was the only import this year he is aware of and there are no established breeders around. A shame but if no purely captive lines can be created it is a waste of effort.

Doubly a shame because he has almost perfected his husbandry, almost none of his slings ever die.

I guess that means he will quit keeping them but who knows.

if you want to message me, ill give you my contact. i know actually a few breeders who do both of those sp

 

[Wolfram1]

oh sure i will PM you, thx

 

[Breeanna]

I have a friend that bred them successfully a few times but they always started to stop reproducing for him in the 3rd generation. Some would lay empthy eggsacks or simply not lay at all.

He is not sure if it was an inbreeding issue or if it had to do with the lack of a winter period.

If i were you i would mix in new genes every 2 generations just to be safe.

Thank you

 

[Jumper]

Beeanna,

Thank you for your incredible pictures.
You have awesome looking specimens.
If you are intending to breed them.
My suggestion is not to breed them from same egg sac.
My experience, their offspring will result with them of being sterile.

-Jumper

 

[Breeanna]

Thank you. They really are beautiful.
I made the decision NOT to breed them from same egg sac.
If I come across any though. I’m definitely going to try.