Lethargic Tarantula

[DarkSheepoftheFam]

Hi, i might be being a bit paranoid but i bought a young adult female Singapore blue yesterday. The container it was in when i bought it wasn't great, my mate who works in the shop said it really was at the point it needed rehousing and it also needed a feed. I got it home and set up its bioactive enclosure, a 12x12x18 and gave it loads of hiding places, a few live plants, and a heat mat stuck to the outside of the glass. the thermostat is set at 27 as they need slightly higher temps than my room provides. when i moved it over it went perfectly, touched its foot with a rubber tipped tweezer and it slowly climbed in. its now been 15 hours or so and its not really moved, its just sat on the floor of the enclosure. i threw a cockroach in last night and it looked like its eaten, i opened up this morning and sprayed the enclosure and plants thinking maybe it was a little dehydrated as its water dish is on the side of the door. it must have got a few drops on her as she slowly backed away. but it still is just sitting on the substrate. does this seem like normal behavior? could it just be the shock of being in a new enclosure or something else? just looking for some guidance from some more experienced keepers. The first photo is the setup and the 2nd is pretty much where shes been give or take since i moved her in

 

[viper69]

I would have went with a smaller setup.

Needs time to settle in- remove the food

The skull is a waste of space, another cork tube would be a better use of that space

Not a fan of bioactive tanks- it simply isn’t needed- good luck

Mesh screen- dump that, replace with acrylic with drilled holes

Optional- Think you have a foam backing- remove it as crickets mostly, and Ts can hide behind it or chew it.

@cold blood drop some additional info when you have a moment.

 

[DarkSheepoftheFam]

I would have went with a smaller setup.

Needs time to settle in- remove the food

The skull is a waste of space, another cork tube would be a better use of that space

Not a fan of bioactive tanks- it simply isn’t needed- good luck

Mesh screen- dump that, replace with acrylic with drilled holes

Optional- Think you have a foam backing- remove it as crickets mostly, and Ts can hide behind it or chew it.

@cold blood drop some additional info when you have a moment.

Thanks for the advice mate. Yeah i see your point on the smaller setup. I was going off of how big i was told she was when i bought her. she was curled up in a web in her box when i picked her up and my mate said shes pretty big when she stretches out. I could have put her in one of my spare 8x8x12's for now but i now feel bad for moving her again. The foam backing has been trimmed at the back to remove the voids and been siliconed into place so its flat. the sides and top have all been siliconed too to stop that very thing happening. supposedly the singapores are photosensitive so i thought reducing the light from behind the cork bark would be beneficial. The skull is just in there as a theme as i have one in every tank and throughout the room. thats there for me rather than the spider but it does have a hole in its head so its actually another hide. I get your point on swapping it for another cork bark but there are 2 in there already. one on the left thats butted upto the backing and then the tube you can see at the front. I did a bioactive enclosure as its a higher humidity needing species, the springtails and woodlice will eat off any nasty stuff as they do in the wild to stop mold growth. and Ive never had an issue with mesh lids with my arboreals but have swapped them out on my terrestrials. I found the exo terra mesh is pretty crap tbh but the one on here is pretty decent with slightly bigger holes. Oh and the food has been consumed so theres nothing left to remove

 

[viper69]

Thanks for the advice mate. Yeah i see your point on the smaller setup. I was going off of how big i was told she was when i bought her. she was curled up in a web in her box when i picked her up and my mate said shes pretty big when she stretches out. I could have put her in one of my spare 8x8x12's for now but i now feel bad for moving her again. The foam backing has been trimmed at the back to remove the voids and been siliconed into place so its flat. the sides and top have all been siliconed too to stop that very thing happening. supposedly the singapores are photosensitive so i thought reducing the light from behind the cork bark would be beneficial. The skull is just in there as a theme as i have one in every tank and throughout the room. thats there for me rather than the spider but it does have a hole in its head so its actually another hide. I get your point on swapping it for another cork bark but there are 2 in there already. one on the left thats butted upto the backing and then the tube you can see at the front. I did a bioactive enclosure as its a higher humidity needing species, the springtails and woodlice will eat off any nasty stuff as they do in the wild to stop mold growth. and Ive never had an issue with mesh lids with my arboreals but have swapped them out on my terrestrials. I found the exo terra mesh is pretty crap tbh but the one on here is pretty decent with slightly bigger holes. Oh and the food has been consumed so theres nothing left to remove

I figured you went large based on their adult size.

I’ve raised them without bioactive, never an issue with mold. But that’s up to you. There’s been a bit of “I need a bioactive for my T” with new owners, not a soul needs it. Not saying it’s wrong, just not necessary.

True on Exo re their mesh.

As owner of many arboreals, I can personally tell you they are not any better in escaping from mesh than terrestrials.

Simply because you haven’t had a problem isn’t a good reason.

That’s like saying “I don’t wear a seatbelt because I have never gotten maimed yet”

They are more photosensitive than most, mine were for sure.

Oh I know the skull is for you! I know that T didn’t ask for it.

 

[DarkSheepoftheFam]

I figured you went large based on their adult size.

I’ve raised them without bioactive, never an issue with mold. But that’s up to you. There’s been a bit of “I need a bioactive for my T” with new owners, not a soul needs it. Not saying it’s wrong, just not necessary.

True on Exo re their mesh.

As owner of many arboreals, I can personally tell you they are not any better in escaping from mesh than terrestrials.

Simply because you haven’t had a problem isn’t a good reason.

That’s like saying “I don’t wear a seatbelt because I have never gotten maimed yet”

They are more photosensitive than most, mine were for sure.

Oh I know the skull is for you! I know that T didn’t ask for it.

lol "raised them without bioactive and never had an issue with mold". well to quote you again sir "simply because you havent had a problem isnt a good reason". Just saying. There are plenty of people that do keep in bioactives and quite a few of the notable youtubers do this too and have a lot of success with it. It might be overkill but I like the look of them and it does help with the humidity levels how ever you look at it.
But anyway back to the original post, what is your take on the T. is it just shell shock or could it be something else?

 

[Smotzer]

the thermostat is set at 27 as they need slightly higher temps than my room provides.

No they dont, thhey do not require some magical hhumidity and temperature number range and heating the enclsoure with a heating pad is dangerous. Generally speaking if you are comfortable in your home so are they. And Stop misting.

 

[DarkSheepoftheFam]

No they dont, thhey do not require some magical hhumidity and temperature number range and heating the enclsoure with a heating pad is dangerous. Generally speaking if you are comfortable in your home so are they. And Stop misting.

This is the only T I have a heat source for. The rest are ok at the room temp (which is around 20-21 degrees c. But all of the research i have done on this species in particular say they have more advanced husbandry requirements, slightly warmer enclosures and higher humidity to get the best out of them. I have a heat mat on the side of the enclosure with the thermostat prob sat right on top of it so it will not get any higher than 27. If it turns out heating is a waste of time i'll just pull it off and keep it the same as all my other T's. But id rather do my best for her as shes my first O. violaceopes.
I dont tend to mist as i keep the bioactives with water in the bottom with the clay balls. only reason i misted her this morning was so she would have access to water droplets on the plants and side of the enclosure if she was a little dehydrated (the enclosure she was in from the shop was bone dry). Her water bowl is up near one of the cork hides. and as she hasnt climbed yet, i thought this might have been the best temporary fix.
Thanks for the input though man

 

[Smotzer]

in particular say they have more advanced husbandry requirements, slightly warmer enclosures and higher humidity to get the best out of them.

humidity is not important, and no tarantula requires specific temperature and humidity numbers. Thhey are not humidity dependent they in various degrees of moisture dependent, whichh this species is. Disregard hunidity and temperature ranges and stop reading "Care Sheets" they kill tarantulas.

If it turns out heating is a waste of time i'll just pull it off and keep it the same as all my other T's. But id rather do my best for her as shes my first O. violaceopes.

It is a waste of time and it is dangerous the way you are doing it now.

 

[sasker]

well to quote you again sir "simply because you havent had a problem isnt a good reason".

I just want to underline that @viper69 did not say bioactive is wrong, just that it is not necessary. IMO, it is not necessary, but it won't hurt to have either. A bit like the skull you put in the enclosure

and quite a few of the notable youtubers do this too and have a lot of success with it.

A lot of notable YouTubers have terrible habits. Bio active setups are not per se bad, but a lot of other things they do should not be tried at home (The Dark Den's omission of water dishes, for example. Or Exotics Lair's rehousing 'techniques'). All I am saying is that because some keepers on YouTube do something, it is not automatically the best way.

Tarantulas can be kept in different ways and there is much room for the preferences of the keeper to go about it. IMO, bioactive setups fall in that grey area category. It is not a magic solution that solves all problems. In another recent thread, one keeper had a problem with his tarantula and felt offended that someone had suggested that he could improve the enclosure setup. After all, his terrarium is bioactive, so there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with his husbandry.

 

[viper69]

lol "raised them without bioactive and never had an issue with mold". well to quote you again sir "simply because you havent had a problem isnt a good reason". Just saying. There are plenty of people that do keep in bioactives and quite a few of the notable youtubers do this too and have a lot of success with it. It might be overkill but I like the look of them and it does help with the humidity levels how ever you look at it.
But anyway back to the original post, what is your take on the T. is it just shell shock or could it be something else?

Except what you’re saying is wrong. In my car example, I made an analogy that keeping a mesh screen is a hazard- because it is, case closed.

However, when you used my logic re bioactive setups, you implied a lack of using bioactives was a potential hazard, and it isn’t.

That implication of yours is completely false.

If you’re going to use my own words against me, at least use them accurately/equally.

I answered your main question, scroll up.

Phrase “notable YouTubers” is a joke.

This is the only T I have a heat source for. The rest are ok at the room temp (which is around 20-21 degrees c. But all of the research i have done on this species in particular say they have more advanced husbandry requirements, slightly warmer enclosures and higher humidity to get the best out of them. I have a heat mat on the side of the enclosure with the thermostat prob sat right on top of it so it will not get any higher than 27. If it turns out heating is a waste of time i'll just pull it off and keep it the same as all my other T's. But id rather do my best for her as shes my first O. violaceopes.
I dont tend to mist as i keep the bioactives with water in the bottom with the clay balls. only reason i misted her this morning was so she would have access to water droplets on the plants and side of the enclosure if she was a little dehydrated (the enclosure she was in from the shop was bone dry). Her water bowl is up near one of the cork hides. and as she hasnt climbed yet, i thought this might have been the best temporary fix.
Thanks for the input though man

Use a dropper on the webbing rather than misting, it doesn’t disturb them as much.

 

[DarkSheepoftheFam]

humidity is not important, and no tarantula requires specific temperature and humidity numbers. Thhey are not humidity dependent they in various degrees of moisture dependent, whichh this species is. Disregard hunidity and temperature ranges and stop reading "Care Sheets" they kill tarantulas.

It is a waste of time and it is dangerous the way you are doing it now.

I get what your saying and all myTs I keep at room temp. Humidity numbers are bollocks I agree with you. But nothing wrong with keeping it in a slightly more humid environment than what we currently have here. Also saying temps aren’t important as I’m sure Ts would struggle in 15 degrees. Baring in mind temps are generally lower here in the U.K. than over there in Texas. Heat lamps for T’s I agree is dangerous but what exactly is dangerous about what I’m doing? It is a heat mat regulated to 27 degrees on the outside of an enclosure. It’d be no different than keeping my room at 27

 

[moricollins]

It is a heat mat regulated to 27 degrees on the outside of an enclosure. It’d be no different than keeping my room at 27

Have you measured that with a separate thermometer reading the temperature of the glass inside the enclosure, where the heat mat is?

 

[DarkSheepoftheFam]

Except what you’re saying is wrong. In my car example, I made an analogy that keeping a mesh screen is a hazard- because it is, case closed.

However, when you used my logic re bioactive setups, you implied a lack of using bioactives was a potential hazard, and it isn’t.

That implication of yours is completely false.

If you’re going to use my own words against me, at least use them accurately/equally.

I answered your main question, scroll up.

Phrase “notable YouTubers” is a joke.




Use a dropper on the webbing rather than misting, it doesn’t disturb them as much.

inadequate husbandry in any degree is a hazard. That was the point I was making. Your way of doing things has worked for you but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Bioactive setups when done correctly work, and not all screen lids are bad.
and by notable youtubers I’m talking those like yourself that have been in the hobby for years and keep a whole manner of T’s, such as Dave’s beasties, tarantula collective and Tom’s big spiders. Surely being able to see the quality of the care is worth something?
and using the dropper on the webbing is a great idea but the T has only been in the enclosure a little under 24hrs. There is no web. Misting the walls and plants creates water droplets for her to drink nearby should she need rehydrating. But this isn’t a practice I do for any other T’s. Just thought this one needed nursing a little. But since posting earlier she has perked up and gone into one of the cork hides and is now starting to behave a little more as expected. The only reason for the post in the first place was the fact it hadn’t moved much. Every other T I have rehoused has retreated to a hide within an hour or two. Just wanted someone’s take on if this was “normal” behaviour or something to be concerned about

Have you measured that with a separate thermometer reading the temperature of the glass inside the enclosure, where the heat mat is?

Yeah I have a heat gun and the reading was a few decimals off what the reading on the thermostat. Maybe half a degree

 

[sasker]

Tarantulas tend to stick to the warmest point in the terrarium, regardless if they are warm or cold. Just like moths are drawn to open flame. This could get dangerous if the glass heats up too much.

 

[viper69]

inadequate husbandry in any degree is a hazard. That was the point I was making. Your way of doing things has worked for you but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Bioactive setups when done correctly work, and not all screen lids are bad.
and by notable youtubers I’m talking those like yourself that have been in the hobby for years and keep a whole manner of T’s, such as Dave’s beasties, tarantula collective and Tom’s big spiders. Surely being able to see the quality of the care is worth something?
and using the dropper on the webbing is a great idea but the T has only been in the enclosure a little under 24hrs. There is no web. Misting the walls and plants creates water droplets for her to drink nearby should she need rehydrating. But this isn’t a practice I do for any other T’s. Just thought this one needed nursing a little. But since posting earlier she has perked up and gone into one of the cork hides and is now starting to behave a little more as expected. The only reason for the post in the first place was the fact it hadn’t moved much. Every other T I have rehoused has retreated to a hide within an hour or two. Just wanted someone’s take on if this was “normal” behaviour or something to be concerned about

Hazard- got it

Bioactive- never said they were wrong or bad. Just not necessary, HUGE difference.

The general method I use is what the overwhelming majority of alll T owners globally do, ie non-bioactive. Not just just currently, but for all of history in T keeping. Successfully raising, breeding species for “eons”.

Does that mean the traditional, non-bioactive, method is the ONLY way- NOPE. Again I never said that.

Ah, YouTubers, it’s a specific reference to YouTube (not me), vs forums (me). Different formats of course. Seeing things is useful-agreed. Moran is a good site generally.

The reason I don’t like YouTube is there’s a ton of “monkey see, monkey do”
These people end up coming here and we have to correct and convince at times that whatever Mumbo Jumbo they saw is complete crap. After all what would us forum people know, we don’t have millions of clicks/fans

People have been taught to find info, but not necessarily analyze what they see. It wasn’t like this before the internet.

Perked up- good
No webbing- understood
Went for the cork, not the skull

Enjoy!

 

[DarkSheepoftheFam]

Hazard- got it

Bioactive- never said they were wrong or bad. Just not necessary, HUGE difference.

The general method I use is what the overwhelming majority of alll T owners globally do, ie non-bioactive. Not just just currently, but for all of history in T keeping. Successfully raising, breeding species for “eons”.

Does that mean the traditional, non-bioactive, method is the ONLY way- NOPE. Again I never said that.

Ah, YouTubers, it’s a specific reference to YouTube (not me), vs forums (me). Different formats of course. Seeing things is useful-agreed. Moran is a good site generally.

The reason I don’t like YouTube is there’s a ton of “monkey see, monkey do”
These people end up coming here and we have to correct and convince at times that whatever Mumbo Jumbo they saw is complete crap. After all what would us forum people know, we don’t have millions of clicks/fans

People have been taught to find info, but not necessarily analyze what they see. It wasn’t like this before the internet.

Perked up- good
No webbing- understood
Went for the cork, not the skull

Enjoy!

lol whod have thought it hey? damn spider, the skull looked soo cosy
yeah i get what you mean about monkey see monkey do with youtube. its like anything though. if you only listen to one source then theres a chance you'll be repeating peoples mistakes. I will never listen to just one person cos you never know when your talking to the idiot of the village . all of my husbandry from extensive research and taking in what people i trust say, mixed in with some care sheets (i agree most of these are now hugely outdated) and then a little bit of common sense. I've come into T's from reptiles which i know is like chalk and cheese but there are a few similarities. it has given me room for thought on whether to remove the heat mat. i'll do a little more digging into that one and i will give the screen mesh some thought too although i really dont think it will pose an issue.
What was done from eons ago isnt always a good thing, some people used to keep T's on just sand or vermiculite way back when. its all about finding out what works and what can be made better. even if its the same quality for the spider but less frequent husbandry for the owner etc. at the end of the day the animal should always come first. were just the village idiots that keep them

Tarantulas tend to stick to the warmest point in the terrarium, regardless if they are warm or cold. Just like moths are drawn to open flame. This could get dangerous if the glass heats up too much.

yeah ive seen the stories of people with heat lamps and the T's just cooking themselves

 

[Smotzer]

I get what your saying and all myTs I keep at room temp. Humidity numbers are bollocks I agree with you. But nothing wrong with keeping it in a slightly more humid environment than what we currently have here. Also saying temps aren’t important as I’m sure Ts would struggle in 15 degrees. Baring in mind temps are generally lower here in the U.K. than over there in Texas. Heat lamps for T’s I agree is dangerous but what exactly is dangerous about what I’m doing? It is a heat mat regulated to 27 degrees on the outside of an enclosure. It’d be no different than keeping my room at 27

Okay well it seems like you already have your mind made up and aren’t reAlly open up feedback. It’s dangerous because they will stick to that point and cook themselves. And remarking location doesn’t change it I’ve lived in very cold climates and never ever needed supplemental heat. And it is way different than keeping your room at that temperature and that is the way you should do it amd not a heat mat. We have given you info, take it or leave it just know the risk for the complications you are adding.

 

[DarkSheepoftheFam]

Okay well it seems like you already have your mind made up and aren’t reAlly open up feedback. It’s dangerous because they will stick to that point and cook themselves. And remarking location doesn’t change it I’ve lived in very cold climates and never ever needed supplemental heat. And it is way different than keeping your room at that temperature and that is the way you should do it amd not a heat mat. We have given you info, take it or leave it just know the risk for the complications you are adding.

Mate it will not cook itself on 27 degrees of glass, it will not get hotter than this as it has a separate thermostatic control.
I am actually thinking of taking it off anyway as I’ve just done readings around my room and it’s about 25degrees at the moment (summer time) but that could be due to the PC tower generating heat. The enclosure is at the top of my racking system.
I am open to feedback but I don’t agree with the “it’s my way and nothing else” approach

 

[viper69]

What was done from eons ago isnt always a good thing, some people used to keep T's on just sand or vermiculite way back when. its all about finding out what works and what can be made better. even if its the same quality for the spider but less frequent husbandry for the owner etc. at the end of the day the animal should always come first.

Generally speaking true for many things. On this specific topic though, still a good thing. People still use vermic too, raised to adults. Remember, just because something is new, doesn't mean it's better or it can be, doesn't mean it's worse necessarily either.

True on T first.

Same as you, reptiles first, Ts later.

Enjoy

 

[Smotzer]

I am open to feedback but I don’t agree with the “it’s my way and nothing else” approach

Its not my way or the highway lol its a simple fact that it doesnt need the supplemental heat unless down in the 50F's or 10C....I keep my house at the 20C-22C or 68-71F and there is zero need to supplemental heat any one of my tarantulas. Sure could you, yeah..but you are only complicating something for yourself that is very simple. There is zero reason for you to be heating to 27C when they will do just fine at your room temperature 25C is plenty warm and you could keep them just fine at considerably cooler temps as well. I am trying to help you make your care and husbandry much less complicated. I think you are caught up in nonsensical info from caresheets online. Trying to help you out friend!