Leopard Gecko Info

[Mushroom Spore]

some people say babies shouldnt be kept on sand, but ive kept mine on calci sand since i bought it and its fine.

Every time I see people using this horrible logic it makes me want to die.

"Some people say you shouldn't sit on top of your car while going 90 on the freeway, but I did it once for eight minutes and didn't die horribly, so it's totally safe for everyone!" :wall:

Calci sand kills. The calcium IN the sand just encourages them to eat it, why in the name of all that's good and holy would you WANT them to eat the sand? It does *not* dissolve, it clumps up, and you are playing russian roulette with your pets' lives.

 

[K-TRAIN]

Every time I see people using this horrible logic it makes me want to die.

"Some people say you shouldn't sit on top of your car while going 90 on the freeway, but I did it once for eight minutes and didn't die horribly, so it's totally safe for everyone!" :wall:

Calci sand kills. The calcium IN the sand just encourages them to eat it, why in the name of all that's good and holy would you WANT them to eat the sand? It does *not* dissolve, it clumps up, and you are playing russian roulette with your pets' lives.

Fine for now, how long is it gonna be fine for. Calcisand is horible please change to somthing better. I.e Reptie Carpet or slate...

its in there enviornment in the wild, only without the calcium. so whats the point of keeping them on something else. ive kept every animal i ever owned on substrate similar to their natural environment and none of my animals ever died because of it, they died of old age. the only animal i dont keep on its natural substrate is my g. rosea, i keep it on carefresh. (im changing it to peat moss soon. no problems with it, but the cage looks dirty.) the only problem i have with my leopard gecko is its tail. it gets thinner everyday. (im trying to get it to eat, ive tried everything but waxworms. im getting them tomorrow.)

 

[Mushroom Spore]

its in there enviornment in the wild, only without the calcium.

From what I've read, the "desert" is more like very dry dirt and clay-like soils.

so whats the point of keeping them on something else.

Because leos die from it all the time? I don't know about you, but that is more than enough reason for me.

none of my animals ever died because of it, they died of old age.

Did you get necropsies done to see, say, how much sand they had in their insides?

the only animal i dont keep on its natural substrate is my g. rosea, i keep it on carefresh.

That's absolutely terrible and I'm glad you're changing it.

Also, the natural environment of a G. rosea is NOT sandy deserts like you'd see in Lawrence of Arabia or something. It's "desert" as in "extremely dry clay/dirt soils that see next to no rain, ever. Also there are lots of rocks and caves and things." type desert.

It should do very well on dry peatmoss, mine loves to stretch out flat on it. Loves it even more than sitting on the log, which is saying something.

the only problem i have with my leopard gecko is its tail. it gets thinner everyday. (im trying to get it to eat, ive tried everything but waxworms. im getting them tomorrow.)

If your leo is starving to death (the tail is where they store their fat/energy/water), then you have much bigger problems. You really should get it to a vet ASAP. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm genuinely worried about the little guy. He could have a disease or other infection, or--yes--he might have a clogged gut and be unable to eat.

What are the temps like, and what conditions did the store/breeder/whatever keep him in before you got him? Hopefully we can figure this out.

 

[Lady_Shadowlily]

Substrate

Ack! I just got my first leopard gecko (a little guy, probably about 4-5" long with the tail) and made the mistake of buying sand for its tank. :wall:

I shall remove it ASAP, lest I doom the poor thing to an untimely death. However...what can I use instead that will look nicer than paper towel?? :?

 

[Mushroom Spore]

I shall remove it ASAP, lest I doom the poor thing to an untimely death. However...what can I use instead that will look nicer than paper towel?? :?

You could buy a few sheets of that green reptile carpet stuff, usually looks like very thick felt or astroturf. When one sheet gets dirty, take it out, replace with another sheet, and wash the first one.

Of course, since leos like to pick one corner and only poop there, you could put paper towels or something down in that area once your leo has made its choice. Will make cleaning much easier!

 

[K-TRAIN]

From what I've read, the "desert" is more like very dry dirt and clay-like soils.



Because leos die from it all the time? I don't know about you, but that is more than enough reason for me.



Did you get necropsies done to see, say, how much sand they had in their insides?



That's absolutely terrible and I'm glad you're changing it.

Also, the natural environment of a G. rosea is NOT sandy deserts like you'd see in Lawrence of Arabia or something. It's "desert" as in "extremely dry clay/dirt soils that see next to no rain, ever. Also there are lots of rocks and caves and things." type desert.

It should do very well on dry peatmoss, mine loves to stretch out flat on it. Loves it even more than sitting on the log, which is saying something.



If your leo is starving to death (the tail is where they store their fat/energy/water), then you have much bigger problems. You really should get it to a vet ASAP. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm genuinely worried about the little guy. He could have a disease or other infection, or--yes--he might have a clogged gut and be unable to eat.

What are the temps like, and what conditions did the store/breeder/whatever keep him in before you got him? Hopefully we can figure this out.

the store (petco.) kept him in the same condition i keep it in with the same exact supplies. the only difference is its cage temperature ranges between 80-90 degrees. in the store, i believe it was 75-85 degrees. i know your probably going to say something about petco, but i buy from petcos that have at least one person who knows reptiles like i do. i will take him to a vet, but im looking for a new one since the one i used to go to closed down. i know that g. rosea isnt from a desert area. and i dont care what anyone says, carefresh is a great substrate for spiders that rarely burrow i can prove it. now about the desert environment, its made up of clay soils and dry dirt, but over top of it is sand in most areas.

 

[Socrates]

Ack! I just got my first leopard gecko (a little guy, probably about 4-5" long with the tail) and made the mistake of buying sand for its tank. :wall:

I shall remove it ASAP, lest I doom the poor thing to an untimely death. However...what can I use instead that will look nicer than paper towel?? :?

I've had mine on tiles, which IMO not only looks decent, but is a breeze to clean.

---
Wendy
---

 

[roach dude]

Nice leo and very nice setup!

I've still got mine on Paper towels at the moment, Im trying to get hold of that reptile carpet stuff. I havent found any shops that seel it over here...
Does any body know a place on the web?:? :?

Also i think mabye people should read up about calci sand and leo befor they go ahead and by a pet. Cali sand sucks ass DONT USE IT!

Cheers, conor

 

[Socrates]

Nice leo and very nice setup!

I've still got mine on Paper towels at the moment, Im trying to get hold of that reptile carpet stuff. I havent found any shops that seel it over here...
Does any body know a place on the web?:? :?

Also i think mabye people should read up about calci sand and leo befor they go ahead and by a pet. Cali sand sucks ass DONT USE IT!

Cheers, conor

Thanks, Conor.

I've had my leo for about 6 months now, and let me tell you, she grew FAST. She's quite a piggy when it comes to food.

I did tons and tons of research, making sure I'll give her an appropriate home.

Try this link for the carpet: http://www.reptilesupply.com/index.php?cPath=38_107

---
Wendy
---

 

[HerpCenter]

Hello,

I hate the great sand debates that jump off on websites regarding Leopard Geckos. To put it simply, sand is neither 100% safe nor is it natural.

Leos reside within the sparse grasslands and mountaneous regions of their locales. Neither of these locales are the sahara desert, so placing sand on the bottom of an enclosure and calling it "natural" is far from the truth.

They actually reside on a dense soil that has the texture of clay. Sand is a small fraction of their natural environment. (Less than 10% of the actual composition!)

I noticed you mentioned petco as a reliable source of information. Since they use it, it must be safe. (Regarding the calcium sand.) They use it because they sell it. If they want you to buy it, they themselves need to use it. Would you buy that sand if they say it is great for the leo but they themselves are using something completely different? Of course not. It is a sale tactic to sucker in newbies who haven't owned reptiles long enough to know better.

Now, I took the time to begin writing up why calci-sand is absolute trash. The stuff is worse than sand. Please take the time to read it and see why:

Understanding the dangers of Calci-Sand

To understand why sand isn't safe, you need to understand impactions and how they work.

Granular substrates have been known to cause impactions in leopard geckos. There are two types of impaction that could occur. The first is called an Acute Impaction. An acute impaction is when the Leo swallows a large amount of substrate and it blocks the vital organs used to process food. (Stomach, intestinal tract, etc.) The results of this type of impaction will lead to lethargy, lack of appetite, lack of bowel movements, sand in the stool, etc.

The other type of impaction, and often the most deadly form, is the chronic impaction. A chronic impaction is the slow accumulation of sand that binds to the lining of the intestinal tract. Over time, and often years, it will create a blockage. This blockage will also have the same detrimental effects as an acute impaction. The biggest problem with this type of impaction is that when it is discovered, it is most often too late to cure.

I took this from the caresheet I wrote here: Leopard Gecko Care

Just for the record, I have been keeping and breeding leos now for a little over 10 years. I also reside with my wife who is a vet tech at the VCA Animal Hospital. Not only am I talking from my own experiences, but I am also relaying what Angie has observed from the work she does. Sand causes impactions. That isn't debatable, that is fact.

Will every leo kept on sand die from an impaction, no. Some will live long happy lives on sand. Will all those that do die from impaction have an impact on the bad info spread on the net about using the stuff, no unfortunantly. Most leos that die from impaction related deaths never have a necropsy done to reveal it. Instead, someone will post that their 10 year old leo died of "natural" causes and they never had a problem with the sand they were on. Well, when an animal is supposed to live 20+ years in captivity, 10 years isn't natural. If you can't dictate the cause of death, it can't be ruled "natural". (Not without a necropsy being done!)

If you use sand, you are gambling with the leos life. There is no point in placing an animal in harms way when you know the risk of death is there. (Which you now know.)

 

[green_bottle_04]

Not to down on something you say, your a smart person and I respect what you have to say but play sand is horrible. I know tons of people who have lost gecko's to playsand (mostly babies and Juvies). at first I always tried to set my tanks up to look good to the eye, but I quickly realized that was not an option when you own everything that goes "Bump" in the night.

thats VERY true...i should have made that more clear. ive always kept my babies ( leos, uros, beardies) on paper towels until they are large sub-adults. then i move them to play sand.

yes...they desert is mostly hard clay-like substance. believe me i know ( i spent 18 months in iraq) but it got that way from the rain. during the summer months the sand is just that..sand. it rains during the winter and packs the sand together making it hard. it stays that way all spring and through about half of the summer. by then the summer sun has evaporated most of the moisture out of the ground. (with day time temps of 120 its suprising it takes that long) by the end of summer to late fall it is, in fact, sand. leos are native to Pakistan, which is almost identical to the geography of iraq with few exceptions.

read the last paragraph. http://www.reptilecare.com/LeopardFAQ.htm

 

[HerpCenter]

yes...they desert is mostly hard clay-like substance. believe me i know ( i spent 18 months in iraq) but it got that way from the rain. during the summer months the sand is just that..sand. it rains during the winter and packs the sand together making it hard. it stays that way all spring and through about half of the summer. by then the summer sun has evaporated most of the moisture out of the ground. (with day time temps of 120 its suprising it takes that long) by the end of summer to late fall it is, in fact, sand. leos are native to Pakistan, which is almost identical to the geography of iraq with few exceptions.

read the last paragraph. http://www.reptilecare.com/LeopardFAQ.htm

Hello,

Your misinterpreting the terrain and the locales of the geckos themselves. There is sand almost everywhere in the world. Certain animals live on the sand, other animals don't. Just because an animal is from "Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iraq doesn't mean they live on the sand. You are stereotyping the terrain of these countries based off of an aspect of their geographical composition. All of these countries are abundant in mountaneous terrain as well as lavishly green fields and meadows. They are not consumed by sand across the entire nation like you are suggesting.

Lets take a second to examine a simple fact. Leopard geckos eat insects. In order to survive, regardless of where they are located, the insects need to be present. In order for insects to thrive, there needs to be an abundance of food for them. For many insects, this means vegetation.

Vegetation doesn't grow in areas completely consumed by sand. They can't root adequately and those areas, as even you suggest, are very dry for half the year and don't have rainfall except during their winters.

The leo doesn't reside in this open terrain. They reside under rocks and in crevices and burrows. These locations have a higher humidity than the rest of the ambient air and they are within range of insects to feed on. (Which just happen to also prefer these hiding places and the close proximatey of vegetation for them to feed.)

I too have a vast knowledge of the terrain. My 2 brothers both served in Iraq 2 times and Afghanistan once for a total combined deployment time of 3.5 years. They were both "stop lossed" and were released from the military after serving 4.5 years.

Both of my brothers are reptile enthusiasts. Both of my brothers are owners of leopard geckos. NIETHER of them would ever suggest what you are trying to dictate in this thread in regards to where they would find these creatures.

It almost appears like you are trying to piece together your information off of the terrain you experienced and hold that as where they are located.

 

[green_bottle_04]

Hello,

Your misinterpreting the terrain and the locales of the geckos themselves. There is sand almost everywhere in the world. Certain animals live on the sand, other animals don't. Just because an animal is from "Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iraq doesn't mean they live on the sand. You are stereotyping the terrain of these countries based off of an aspect of their geographical composition. All of these countries are abundant in mountaneous terrain as well as lavishly green fields and meadows. They are not consumed by sand across the entire nation like you are suggesting.

Lets take a second to examine a simple fact. Leopard geckos eat insects. In order to survive, regardless of where they are located, the insects need to be present. In order for insects to thrive, there needs to be an abundance of food for them. For many insects, this means vegetation.

Vegetation doesn't grow in areas completely consumed by sand. They can't root adequately and those areas, as even you suggest, are very dry for half the year and don't have rainfall except during their winters.

The leo doesn't reside in this open terrain. They reside under rocks and in crevices and burrows. These locations have a higher humidity than the rest of the ambient air and they are within range of insects to feed on. (Which just happen to also prefer these hiding places and the close proximatey of vegetation for them to feed.)

I too have a vast knowledge of the terrain. My 2 brothers both served in Iraq 2 times and Afghanistan once for a total combined deployment time of 3.5 years. They were both "stop lossed" and were released from the military after serving 4.5 years.

Both of my brothers are reptile enthusiasts. Both of my brothers are owners of leopard geckos. NIETHER of them would ever suggest what you are trying to dictate in this thread in regards to where they would find these creatures.

It almost appears like you are trying to piece together your information off of the terrain you experienced and hold that as where they are located.

thats true...there ARE very mountaneous areas...but as far as lavish green fields and meadows...there simply arent any. the only dense vegitation you will see is that which lays right beside the rivers and tributaries. which MIGHT extend out MAYBE 50 yards from the main water source. (unless it has been irrogated) its true that it is more humid in the mountains. but it is also significantly colder in the mountains as well. and the mountains over there are mostly comprised of rock. not lush forest filled mountains that we see here. and vegitations DOES grow in areas completely consumed by sand. (if you have an email adress id be happy to send you photos) it is mostly weeds. insects are also abundant throughout the desert. i saw more grass hoppers in one square mile in the desert than i have EVER seen in my life.

 

[HerpCenter]

Hello,

I will do you one better. I am sending my brothers some emails asking them to forward me their pictures. I have seen these meadows I am referring to already from their photos. With all the time they had over there, I had asked them to take some photos and try to locate some wild leos. They couldn't find any leos, but they sure have lots of photos of the terrain you are stating doesn't exist.

If you wish to share your phots with me, I can be contacted at: rich@herpcenter.com

I will upload the photos my brothers send directly to this thread when I receive them.

 

[green_bottle_04]

Hello,

I will do you one better. I am sending my brothers some emails asking them to forward me their pictures. I have seen these meadows I am referring to already from their photos. With all the time they had over there, I had asked them to take some photos and try to locate some wild leos. They couldn't find any leos, but they sure have lots of photos of the terrain you are stating doesn't exist.

If you wish to share your phots with me, I can be contacted at: rich@herpcenter.com

I will upload the photos my brothers send directly to this thread when I receive them.

please do.

and why would you ask them to find any wild leos?...as we are talking about iraq photos (you said thats where they were, iraq) and leos are native to Pakistan, as we have already discussed.

 

[HerpCenter]

Hello,

Leopard Geckos can be found in Afghanistan, NW India, and Pakistan. Your thinking of when leos first began being imported to the states. Pakistan was the primary importer but stock has since started arriving from Afghanistan as well.

The images I will be uploading will be a combination of Iraq and Afghanistan. (Afghanistan being a locale where they can be found in the wild and where the pics were to be taken.)

 

[green_bottle_04]

Hello,

Leopard Geckos can be found in Afghanistan, NW India, and Pakistan. Your thinking of when leos first began being imported to the states. Pakistan was the primary importer but stock has since started arriving from Afghanistan as well.

The images I will be uploading will be a combination of Iraq and Afghanistan. (Afghanistan being a locale where they can be found in the wild and where the pics were to be taken.)

ok, im following you now. i was thinking you were talking about looking for leos in iraq. my mistake.