legalities of Assassins

[John Apple]

After seeing assassin bugs for sale and hearing ALL kinds of stuff regarding owning and selling these guys, my question is this....Just what are the laws regarding assassins and are they controlled like stick insects.
thanx in advance for any replies

 

[Acro]

Check this link, and the one it links to.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=109684

 

[Takumaku]

It depends... I've been trying to get the exact answer from the USDA, but the
Senior Entomologist has decided to give me the cold-shoulder. No worries, though, I have decided to evoke plan B "the freedom of information act". It's a lot slower than the previous methodology.

Basically it comes down to this. They are illegal, but so many hobbyists have them that the USDA is turning a blind eye (or being forced too, depending on how you look at it) to enforcment.

So if you want to keep and breed them, go ahead.

 

[cacoseraph]

except that when you break laws and regulations it leaves you open to having your collection seized and/or your house inspected

 

[Matt K]

except that when you break laws and regulations it leaves you open to having your collection seized and/or your house inspected

...you left off the fact that they also charge you a spot fine of $1000 or if you cannot pay that then you go to jail until you can pay. This may be an important snippit to be aware of.....

 

[Mister Internet]

Psh, why would anyone worry about that... it's not like you have to really follow laws, right? It's only illegal if you get caught!

 

[John Apple]

Psh, why would anyone worry about that... it's not like you have to really follow laws, right? It's only illegal if you get caught!

Wow the ignorance of this statement is kinda like swinging a bat at a football.
All I asked here is the legalities of these guys. I suppose with the non knowledge that was started here I will not get any.

 

[cacoseraph]

pretty sure mrI is joking, mrA

he has been a strong advocate of following the laws in the past, iirc


have you tried googling? if not i suppose i can put some minutes into it

 

[Mister Internet]

pretty sure mrI is joking, mrA

he has been a strong advocate of following the laws in the past, iirc

I keep forgetting to use those stinkin smiley faces.

 

[John Apple]

Heh heh me too ahhh well when I get home I'll have a wonderful workout and then feed some spiders

 

[cacoseraph]

*sigh*

this is way mroe involved that it should be. i should be able to go to USDA or APHIS site and search reduviidae and be done

i made a thread on my forum so that i can edit entries and what not

http://scabies.myfreeforum.org/about854.html

nothing good so far. did find something about giant african land snails though (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/manuals/emergency/downloads/nprg_gas.pdf )

 

[arachnocat]

Searching the site is useless, so is calling and talking to their entomologists. It's really frustrating. If it's so important to keep these inverts out of the pet trade shouldn't that info be posted somewhere public? They have lots of info about land snails on their site but not stick insects when they are also currently confiscating.
Does anyone know where this info about assassins and mantids being illegal originated? I know it's probably more then a rumor, but who found this out in the first place?

 

[John Apple]

Oh man lotta adjectives and 5 dollar words but nothing conclusive as far as I can read. That being said I have a friend here who has many of these things and Ima gonna git sum

 

[Takumaku]

arachnocat,
Good question. My original request to the USDA over assassins was because I kept hearing hearsay about the legality. I grew tired of the hearsay, since I'm a strong believer in documentation and went searching by asking the USDA myself. The ento I talked to did answer my question like he was looking at some documentation, but when I asked for the documentation, surprise, surprise, nothing can be found.

So as of right now, everything about illegally keeping assassin bugs is hearsay.

 

[Bigboy]

I would imagine any legal matters involving Reduviidae is for fear of chagas disease via Trypanosoma sp. Some Reduviidae are responsible for transmitting it (Kissing bugs). I can't imagine any other legitimate reason other than that given their natural history. It would be easier for enforcement agents to ban them all rather than to have to learn which species specifically were or weren't allowed. This of course is pure conjecture, though I wouldn't post it if I didn't believe it to have some merit.
Cheers,
Zack

 

[NrthCstInverts]

I know of at least one person on the boards here that has had all of thier mantids AND assassins seized by the USDA already.
Also when they came to get the stick bugs i obtained, (from a member on the board here, who im fairly certain is still postin under a different name), they asked me if i had any mantids or assassins. I had none, and they didnt really search or anything, but they asked. I would surmise that they wouldnt ask just out of curiosity, they wanted them.

If they want them, and you have them, they will take them.
If you call someone at the USDA and they verbally tell you that they are legal to keep, they can STILL come take them if they so choose. They just have to show paperwork stating that they are illegal, and say "so and so didnt know what they were talking about" (more or less) and poof your stuff is gone.
Im sure someone who knows all the specifics of exactly why they are considered illegal will explain it... as i have a vague rememberance of the law... and dont want to get into it without the full explination. IT does have something to do with them being predators of pollinators, or something like that.....

 

[LasidoraGT]

why are assasins illegal???????

 

[John Apple]

I know of at least one person on the boards here that has had all of thier mantids AND assassins seized by the USDA already.
Also when they came to get the stick bugs i obtained, (from a member on the board here, who im fairly certain is still postin under a different name), they asked me if i had any mantids or assassins. I had none, and they didnt really search or anything, but they asked. I would surmise that they wouldnt ask just out of curiosity, they wanted them.

If they want them, and you have them, they will take them.
If you call someone at the USDA and they verbally tell you that they are legal to keep, they can STILL come take them if they so choose. They just have to show paperwork stating that they are illegal, and say "so and so didnt know what they were talking about" (more or less) and poof your stuff is gone.
Im sure someone who knows all the specifics of exactly why they are considered illegal will explain it... as i have a vague rememberance of the law... and dont want to get into it without the full explination. IT does have something to do with them being predators of pollinators, or something like that.....

Hmmm if that is the case then ya would think there would be something conclusive on thier nsite [usda] or maybe they have nothing there for the simple reason that they want to raid peoples houses and take inverts.

 

[cacoseraph]

I would imagine any legal matters involving Reduviidae is for fear of chagas disease via Trypanosoma sp. Some Reduviidae are responsible for transmitting it (Kissing bugs). I can't imagine any other legitimate reason other than that given their natural history. It would be easier for enforcement agents to ban them all rather than to have to learn which species specifically were or weren't allowed. This of course is pure conjecture, though I wouldn't post it if I didn't believe it to have some merit.
Cheers,
Zack

i would not think so

lokes have chagas already. from what i have heard they are under the same ban that covers mantids... as threats to native pollinators. (chinese mantids... *sigh*)

 

[cacoseraph]

Hmmm if that is the case then ya would think there would be something conclusive on thier nsite [usda] or maybe they have nothing there for the simple reason that they want to raid peoples houses and take inverts.

occam's razor: i blame incompetence rather than something more sinister


by all rights, the person on here who got their bugs seized should be able to force a cite... i can't believe that any gov't agency can seize a private citizens property without having some form of documentation empowering them to do so


p.s. if you do get permits for anything from aphis/usda then you automatically agree to have your facilities searched and to not mess with the agents. read that yesterday. something to think about.