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LAG's - too short?

Discussion in 'Tarantula Chat' started by SonsofArachne, Jul 13, 2019.

Should LAG's (live arrival guarantees) be a longer than just alive when received?

Poll closed Aug 12, 2019.
  1. No - live arrival is good enough

    21 vote(s)
  2. Yes - at least 24 hrs to make sure they're alright.

    9 vote(s)
  3. Yes - 72 hrs seems reasonable.

    3 vote(s)
  4. Yes - if the sellers confident in the health of the animal they'd offer a full week.

    6 vote(s)
  5. Yes - a month, cause why not?

    0 vote(s)
  1. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    Simple question - should the baseline for LAGS be longer? After having having 2 expensive T's die within 24 hrs recently, both outside the dealers LAG, I'm thinking at least a 24 hr minimum. What do you think? Sellers if you have a reason why not, I'd be glad to hear it.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  2. G. pulchra

    G. pulchra ArachnoGod Old Timer

    Why would a seller guarantee health after it has been received? There is no way for them to verify care, it would be a mess. I'll also add, I've never had a T die that quickly after receiving one alive.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  3. basin79

    basin79 Arachnoemperor Active Member

    Here in the UK, or at least from my experiences I'll always let the sender know when I've unboxed my new pet. If the little 1 is sluggish or doesn't seem right I'll tell them as such and that I'll keep them up to date. They've always been absolutely fine with that.

    I've only ever had 1 DOA and all those that have arrived lethargic after warming them up slowly have been fine.

    Whilst the welfare of the animal is the top priority you've also got to protect the seller from the buyers mistakes.

    So say a tarantula arrives in perfect health but the new owner puts the tarantula in an enclosure on a sunny windowsill and it's dead the day after. The seller shouldn't have to be held responsible for it.

    I realise I'm generalising here and it's not always that straightforward but buying any live animal will always come with a certain amount of the unknown.
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 5
  4. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    Maybe because sellers do stupid things too, like shipping T's that are close to molting, or shipping without cool / hot packs on hot / cold days. Besides you'd have to be the worst keeper in the world to kill a healthy T within 24 hrs. And the sellers could make a longer LAG conditional - as in asking the buyer about their husbandry before a issuing a refund. Also some sellers do offer 24 hr or more LAG's, so if some can why not all?
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. cold blood

    cold blood Moderator Staff Member

    As basin explained, its out of the sellers control after it arrives....which is why you generally don't see such extended LAG. That said, special circumstances can change things for some sellers.

    Example: I recently send a package out, only to have it sent to the completely wrong part of the country, where it sat for 4 days before heading back to my city...where I couldn't access it...ended up arriving after 8 days during a hot part of the year. All the slings arrived alive, but because of this delay, I offered the buyer 24 hours due to the less than optimal trip the slings took to get to the buyer.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  6. moricollins

    moricollins Arachnoking Old Timer

    As already mentioned, the seller has no way of knowing what conditions the buyer is keeping the tarantula in. Guaranteeing live arrival is about all you can expect from a seller
  7. viper69

    viper69 ArachnoGod Old Timer

    I have had 3 die that quickly.

    I keep telling you to put zip codes on boxes ;)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2019
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  8. I thiiiiiink tarcan has a week long guarantee? As far as I can recall I haven't lost a T sling from them yet, touch wood. I think a month is ridiculously too long though. I've had electronics with shorter warrantees.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    I really put a month in as a joke. Although I did buy from one seller who offered three weeks - with exceptions of course.
  10. Hardus nameous

    Hardus nameous Arachnobody Arachnosupporter

    If I buy from a local store the spider is entirely my responsibility as soon as it is paid for and in my posession. Why should online orders be any different?
  11. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    No, I expect live arrival of a healthy animal that is in a condition to be shipped (not in heavy pre-molt) and shipped appropriately for weather conditions, or at least a heads up that they don't include hot /cold packs. Also, peoples lives don't necessarily fit into a shippers schedule. For instance I work 12 hr. days, so if a seller insists on shipping on their schedule (many do) and it arrives on a work day, I barely have time to pick it up and house it, certainly not watch it to see if there's a problem.

    I certainly don't mean this as a attack on all sellers - most do a fine job packing and shipping healthy animals. And these sellers should have no problem with a 24 hr. LAG. As far as buyers killings healthy T's in 24 hrs, I don't see it happening unless the buyer is a complete idiot, and a few well worded questions would tell you if they did anything that would void the LAG.

    Easy. You're responsible for getting it home from the store. A online seller is responsible for getting it to you in good condition. And are you telling me if you took a T home from a store and it dropped dead you wouldn't take it back? Because that would clearly be something they did wrong, not you.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2019
  12. Hardus nameous

    Hardus nameous Arachnobody Arachnosupporter

    Not necessarily, it could have been issues during transport, toxic substances in the enclosure etc. etc.... For all the seller knows I could have tried to play pingpong with the thing. Besides, one nice thing about buying from a store is I can see the spider before I buy it; so that carries an implicit acceptance of condition.

    I guess what I'm blabbering to say is if the spider left the seller in good condition, what else could the seller do?
  13. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    I agree, but the opposite applies as well. How do I as a buyer know that it left the seller in good condition? I guess what I'm really saying is things are tilted a little too much in the sellers favor.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. cold blood

    cold blood Moderator Staff Member

    I don't agree. Your shipment gets lost or destroyed, the spiders are replaced....at who's expense? The seller.....bad things happen and it usually hurts the seller a lot worse financially as well as depleting stock, and doesn't do them any favors with potential poor reviews.

    I think generally things set up to protect the buyer more than anything...it needs to with live animals being shipped. Most good sellers will do everything to give a positive experience.

    I assume you contacted the seller?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    Two sellers. the one who shipped the pre-molt claimed it wasn't, just well fed (lol, its abdomen was as big as the rest of it's body - including leg span. That was one well-fed spider, I guess). The other seller I don't really a problem with, other than no cool pack. For me this really just about what would be a fair amount of time for a LAG, and I understand that the sellers are taking a risk, but so are the buyers with only a guarantee of arriving alive.
    I've also noticed a number of people on here won't mail order T's - instead will only buy at shows/pet stores out fear of ending up with a dead T. So maybe increasing the LAG a little might ease fears and increase business.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Hardus nameous

    Hardus nameous Arachnobody Arachnosupporter

    Very true, that's a downside to ordering online I suppose. I guess you've only the sellers' words, reviews and reputations.
  17. ccTroi

    ccTroi Arachnoknight Arachnosupporter

    request to b held at a facility so it doesn’t ride in the truck for delivery.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    I always do.
  19. AgentD006las

    AgentD006las Arach-how about..NO Active Member

    Its called Live arrival guarantee. That means it arrives alive. That's the terms you agreed to. What you think you should get is out side of those terms. If you feel you deserve a grace period feel free to negotiate that before making a transaction. Just so were clear, I don't negotiate with terrorist.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Patherophis

    Patherophis Arachnobaron Active Member

    Am I missing something here? Did it show any other signs of premolt? Because being ridiculously fat doesnt necessarily have to mean premolt.
    • Agree Agree x 4
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