Keeping wild toads

[Egon]

I'm usually an advocate of keeping captive-bred and born reptiles and amphibians. However, there is a conservatory near me that has two huge concrete lily ponds. Every spring, tens of thousands of American toads hatch in them and the tiny toadlets try to climb the vertical concrete walls to escape.

I have never seen a single toadlet make the climb successfully. It's about a 10-inch climb on bare concrete from the surface of the water to the lip of the concrete pond. I usually see hundreds of toadlets clinging to the concrete wall just above the water surface. I also usually see several clinging to the wall a few inches above the water. I've never seen any near the lip of the pond.

In the past, I've scooped out many and put them out on land, but I have to be quick, covert and limited in my action because this is in incredibly high-traffic conservatory and I worry about staff banning me from the premises.

I'm considering grabbing a few toadlets this spring and keeping them as pets. I've never witnessed this myself, but I'm guessing they usually just end up drowning and dying in the ponds, which have drains.

Anyone keep American toads? What are they like? Are they active, or, do they hide most of the day?

 

[CanebrakeRattlesnake]

Oh no, that's awful! I don't have any advice for husbandry but can you try talking to the staff about it and letting them know about the toadlets? Maybe they can add some sort of makeshift ramp to the ponds so that the toads can get in and out safely.

 

[darkness975]

I'm usually an advocate of keeping captive-bred and born reptiles and amphibians. However, there is a conservatory near me that has two huge concrete lily ponds. Every spring, tens of thousands of American toads hatch in them and the tiny toadlets try to climb the vertical concrete walls to escape.

I have never seen a single toadlet make the climb successfully. It's about a 10-inch climb on bare concrete from the surface of the water to the lip of the concrete pond. I usually see hundreds of toadlets clinging to the concrete wall just above the water surface. I also usually see several clinging to the wall a few inches above the water. I've never seen any near the lip of the pond.

In the past, I've scooped out many and put them out on land, but I have to be quick, covert and limited in my action because this is in incredibly high-traffic conservatory and I worry about staff banning me from the premises.

I'm considering grabbing a few toadlets this spring and keeping them as pets. I've never witnessed this myself, but I'm guessing they usually just end up drowning and dying in the ponds, which have drains.

Anyone keep American toads? What are they like? Are they active, or, do they hide most of the day?

How do they get in ? They fall in, breed, then can't get out?

 

[Tentacle Toast]

If you've got land & gardens, just let some go there, & host them as "yard pets." I think the only way you could morally justify stealing animals from a conservatory is it your actions are serving the conservation effort. Why keep them indoors at all,.if you can see them on any given walk?

 

[viper69]

Stealing??

 

[CanebrakeRattlesnake]

If you've got land & gardens, just let some go there, & host them as "yard pets." I think the only way you could morally justify stealing animals from a conservatory is it your actions are serving the conservation effort. Why keep them indoors at all,.if you can see them on any given walk?

I feel like the only people here who need to morally justify their actions is the conservatory letting thousands of baby animals drown because they're too lazy to install a few little ramps. If it's as high-traffic as OP says, you'd think one of the staff members would have noticed the amount of animals trapped in their ponds and fixed it immediately.

 

[NMTs]

I feel like the only people here who need to morally justify their actions is the conservatory letting thousands of baby animals drown because they're too lazy to install a few little ramps. If it's as high-traffic as OP says, you'd think one of the staff members would have noticed the amount of animals trapped in their ponds and fixed it immediately.

First of all, they can certainly climb out of those ponds - I've watched our toads climb straight up and over an 8' tall cinderblock wall. Just because you don't see it happen doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. The babies that were observed on the sides of the pond were probably there waiting for something to eat to wander by. They stay in and near the water as they grow so they can escape predation by diving into the water. As they get larger, they will easily be able to climb out and venture further from the ponds.

I've not had American toads, but we have Woodhouse's toads (Anaxyrus woodhousii) by the jillions around here. I believe they are very similar. They are fantastic to have around the house for pest control. Because of all the critters that we do keep, I've never had an exterminator to the house to use chemical pesticides. Instead, each spring/early summer when the toads emerge from their winter slumber (usually after the first rain when nighttime temps are consistently above 65 degrees), I'll head out to the areas where they are heavily concentrated and fill up a bucket with them. They are then taken to my home and released in the yards. Within 2-3 weeks, what is always an enormous cockroach and harvester ant population is reduced to practically nothing by the army of voracious toads hunting each night. When all the food is gone, the toads will move on to someone else's yard, or a park, or school, or wherever they can find the next bug to scarf down. Usually a few of them will stick around and stay the entire summer in the yard, but if the bug population starts to get too big again, I just go find more toads and bring them back to the yard to take care of it.

I've only ever kept very small babies in an enclosure, and that was merely to try to grow them up some before releasing into the yard. I ended up having to release them well before they had attained the size I was hoping for because they refused to eat in captivity for the most part. They weren't very exciting vivarium pets - they stayed buried in the dirt all day, then came out to try and escape in the dark. The big ones in the yard are pretty cool, though - some of them will learn to follow you around if you feed them a few times (they love nightcrawlers), and it's fun to watch them eat just about anything that moves that will fit in their mouths...

 

[Tentacle Toast]

I feel like the only people here who need to morally justify their actions is the conservatory letting thousands of baby animals drown because they're too lazy to install a few little ramps. If it's as high-traffic as OP says, you'd think one of the staff members would have noticed the amount of animals trapped in their ponds and fixed it immediately.

Fair enough.

 

[viper69]

How do they get in ? They fall in, breed, then can't get out?

something doesn’t sound right in the OP

 

[Egon]

1/ The adults get in. They’re much bigger than the toadlets.

2/ I would hardly calling it “stealing.” We’re talking tens of thousands of toadlets. You’re always good for some judgement and self-righteousness.

3/ I live in the middle city and have actually found a live, grown toad in my yard ONCE, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable releasing a bunch of toadlets in the yard. I also have dogs as do both neighbors.

4/ I hope they’re getting out but I’ve been going to this place for YEARS and have not seen a single toadlet near the lip or outside of these vaults. It’s hard for me to believe they’re getting out when I’ve never seen a single one when there are tens of thousands of them in the water.

I believe they’re falling back into the pool because you’ll see all these wet dots up to a certain height on the interior wall as if they got up to a certain height and fell back.

Are you talking about American toads? Or other species like tree frogs? Adults?

 

[Egon]

something doesn’t sound right in the OP

Oh yeah, I’m making this all up.

Please. The adults get in. The toadlets get trapped inside. There’s a huge size difference between adult and recently metamorphosed toadlets.

Adult toads are the size of my hand and the toadlets are about the size of my pinky fingernail.

Why would I come announce this on a public forum if I had something to hide, was inventing this or had some ulterior motive?

 

[NMTs]

1/ The adults get in. They’re much bigger than the toadlets.

2/ I would hardly calling it “stealing.” We’re talking tens of thousands of toadlets. You’re always good for some judgement and self-righteousness.

3/ I live in the middle city and have actually found a live, grown toad in my yard ONCE, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable releasing a bunch of toadlets in the yard. I also have dogs as do both neighbors.

4/ I hope they’re getting out but I’ve been going to this place for YEARS and have not seen a single toadlet near the lip or outside of these vaults. It’s hard for me to believe they’re getting out when I’ve never seen a single one when there are tens of thousands of them in the water.

I believe they’re falling back into the pool because you’ll see all these wet dots up to a certain height on the interior wall as if they got up to a certain height and fell back.

Are you talking about American toads? Or other species like tree frogs? Adults?

I'm talking about Woodhouse toads, which are Anaxyrus woodhousii (<link). They are very similar to American toads, which are Anaxyrus americanus, and their ranges actually overlap so you can find both species in some areas (and apparently natural hybrids of the 2).

I don't think anyone is calling you a liar. Just remember that just like tarantulas, scorpions, snakes, lizards, etc., toads have evolved over millions of years with one main goal in mind - procreation and species survival. That said, it is highly unlikely that they would choose to breed in a place where their young were only destined to die.

To answer your original question - in my opinion, no, they don't make a very interesting or particularly suitable captive pet. They need to eat A LOT, and they don't feed well in an enclosure from my experience.

 

[Egon]

I'm talking about Woodhouse toads, which are Anaxyrus woodhousii (<link). They are very similar to American toads, which are Anaxyrus americanus, and their ranges actually overlap so you can find both species in some areas (and apparently natural hybrids of the 2).

I don't think anyone is calling you a liar. Just remember that just like tarantulas, scorpions, snakes, lizards, etc., toads have evolved over millions of years with one main goal in mind - procreation and species survival. That said, it is highly unlikely that they would choose to breed in a place where their young were only destined to die.

To answer your original question - in my opinion, no, they don't make a very interesting or particularly suitable captive pet. They need to eat A LOT, and they don't feed well in an enclosure from my experience.

Maybe I’m a cynic, but I don’t think toads are smart enough to know how they’re young are going to fare.

This conservatory is on parkland that has a big natural pond (located much further away) and a more accessible manmade pond that’s closer, so there’s a lot of toad habitat in addition to the concrete ponds.

 

[darkness975]

I feel like the only people here who need to morally justify their actions is the conservatory letting thousands of baby animals drown because they're too lazy to install a few little ramps. If it's as high-traffic as OP says, you'd think one of the staff members would have noticed the amount of animals trapped in their ponds and fixed it immediately.

This

 

[darkness975]

Maybe I’m a cynic, but I don’t think toads are smart enough to know how they’re young are going to fare.

This conservatory is on parkland that has a big natural pond (located much further away) and a more accessible manmade pond that’s closer, so there’s a lot of toad habitat in addition to the concrete ponds.

I'm just curious why none of the staff at the conservatory seem to take notice. You'd think they'd be wanting to prevent this.

 

[Reezelbeezelbug]

If there toads are continually breeding there year after year, I think they know a little more about what they're doing than you give them credit for.

And you haven't talked to the staff about it in the years you've been there?

 

[moricollins]

2/ I would hardly calling it “stealing.” We’re talking tens of thousands of toadlets. You’re always good for some judgement and self-righteousness.

Walmart makes 10s of millions of dollars... Does that mean I can just take a candy bar every time go there?

 

[Egon]

The self-righteous morality here is surprising. If you’re against this because you’re against ownership and human use of animals for any purpose, cool. I get that logic and reasoning, and can respect it.

But this random morality that absolves the commentator of their own role in the use of animals for personal gain/pleasure/etc. makes no sense.

I have a fishing license in my state, which allows me to harvest an “unlimited number” of frogs. (It also allows harvesting turtles.) Yes, all toads are frogs and no, my state does not exempt American toads from harvest.

So, technically this is not “stealing” or illegal.

Are the people complaining here also against fishing and hunting? Do they even know and care that captive breeding of pets and animal agriculture can be just as bad, if not more so, for the animals and environment than controlled harvesting of non-endangered animals from the wild?

No, I don’t hunt or even fish. My fishing license is purely for collecting live specimens with my local aquarium club, which gets a special permit each year to collect a limited number of non-game fish for aquaria.

 

[moricollins]

I have a fishing license in my state, which allows me to harvest an “unlimited number” of frogs. (It also allows harvesting turtles.) Yes, all toads are frogs and no, my state does not exempt American toads from harvest.

So, technically this is not “stealing” or illegal.

I'd be willing to bet that your fishing license doesn't allow you to go onto someone else's private property and remove animals.

It's funny that you're calling other people out for this:

The self-righteous morality here is surprising

when you're trying to justify taking them by saying "2/ I would hardly calling it “stealing.” We’re talking tens of thousands of toadlets" .

 

[NocturnalSkies]

I would talk to the conservancy and see what they say. Tbh I think there’s nothing wrong with taking a few, it’s not like these are endangered toads and to reply to some people on this thread, no toads are not capable of enough forward planning to realize their young may not thrive in any given setting. The lily pools are man made and the toads don’t know that.

Some of y’all just have way too much faith in systems that are “supposed to work” it’s entirely possible that the staff doesn’t know, or doesn’t care. People are lazy and inept all over and in every possible place. That being said, I’d talk to the conservancy and see what they say. Either way I think taking a couple is perfectly fine. That is after all how people have established all captive breeding stocks.

My first ever on the books job was as an audio video technician assistant at 17. We went to the Hamptons And I found a common road drowning in the pool. Took the little guy home and he survived for like 9 years. That little guy(named Cyanide) was with me through a lot. From me fleeing my grandmas apartment that I grew up in, to being with me in my first actual apartment. He died shortly before me moving into where I am now. I still miss him to this day.