Jumping Spiders Popularity & Morphs - Phiddipus regius

[Liquifin]

It seems that Jumping Spiders (Phiddipus regius) has increased in pricing recently. Youtubers, social media, and the positive reception to keeping them as pets gave them a rise to popularity. And also the ease of care has sparked Jumping Spiders to be good pets for little kids and adults alike.

There is also speculation going around which is increasing their prices as well. It seems that people are speculating that these spiders could possibly produce lighter or darker colors through line-breeding or what reptile breeders call it polygenic breeding. If there is morphs or polygenic morphs for jumping spiders, then it would be cool for sure and it would make sense for prices to increase for them to an extent. People are speculating as of now whether the colors and phases of Phiddipus regius are genetic to where it could be seen as the "morph" or "polygenic" for spiders. It's still early in terms of figuring out whether P. regius morphs/phases are polygenic or not. So who knows?

P. regius and true spiders are very foreign to me. Although I know a lot about tarantulas, true spiders are not my specialty. I don't own any Phiddipus regius, but I do have my curiosity on them which is why I made this thread. If "morphs" do exists and does prove out for P. regius, I wonder what people call those morphs.

If any P. regius breeders read this I would like to know if they are possible to polygenically breed and pass down the colors from one generation to the next.

 

[Isaax Critterz]

I dont breed jumping spiders but this sure is interesting.

 

[viper69]

It seems that Jumping Spiders (Phiddipus regius) has increased in pricing recently. Youtubers, social media, and the positive reception to keeping them as pets gave them a rise to popularity. And also the ease of care has sparked Jumping Spiders to be good pets for little kids and adults alike.

There is also speculation going around which is increasing their prices as well. It seems that people are speculating that these spiders could possibly produce lighter or darker colors through line-breeding or what reptile breeders call it polygenic breeding. If there is morphs or polygenic morphs for jumping spiders, then it would be cool for sure and it would make sense for prices to increase for them to an extent. People are speculating as of now whether the colors and phases of Phiddipus regius are genetic to where it could be seen as the "morph" or "polygenic" for spiders. It's still early in terms of figuring out whether P. regius morphs/phases are polygenic or not. So who knows?

P. regius and true spiders are very foreign to me. Although I know a lot about tarantulas, true spiders are not my specialty. I don't own any Phiddipus regius, but I do have my curiosity on them which is why I made this thread. If "morphs" do exists and does prove out for P. regius, I wonder what people call those morphs.

If any P. regius breeders read this I would like to know if they are possible to polygenically breed and pass down the colors from one generation to the next.

It’s genetic- whether one can prove it by breeding is the question

 

[Wolfram1]

inbreeding is a major problem with these, 3 generations and they usually stop producing fertile sacks

that puts a major hurdle in front of selective breeding like that, which is probably a good thing in my opinion

i think there are some regional variants in the trade though



to be honest i have never really been interested in keeping any Phiddipus sp., but there are some very knowlegable people here, that may be able to have a real insight in what you are talking about

@ForTW
@Nicole C G
@egyptiancrow

 

[ForTW]

Well they all got exposed as scammers selling Special colourations and it's pretty simple.

In each Egg sac you can have various diffrences of colourations. What stays the same is most likely the male. If you have a certain "Morph" you never know what colouration is hidden in the male.

In invertebrates that have true morphs the female and male have the same colouration that got extracted. Isopods, dwarf Shrimps and even in bettas.

The price is simply by the high demand and If you don't plan to breed i think they are massive overpriced. But hey, people are willing to pay this, probably lots of them die which creates a even higher demand.

 

[egyptiancrow]

It seems that Jumping Spiders (Phiddipus regius) has increased in pricing recently. Youtubers, social media, and the positive reception to keeping them as pets gave them a rise to popularity. And also the ease of care has sparked Jumping Spiders to be good pets for little kids and adults alike.

There is also speculation going around which is increasing their prices as well. It seems that people are speculating that these spiders could possibly produce lighter or darker colors through line-breeding or what reptile breeders call it polygenic breeding. If there is morphs or polygenic morphs for jumping spiders, then it would be cool for sure and it would make sense for prices to increase for them to an extent. People are speculating as of now whether the colors and phases of Phiddipus regius are genetic to where it could be seen as the "morph" or "polygenic" for spiders. It's still early in terms of figuring out whether P. regius morphs/phases are polygenic or not. So who knows?

P. regius and true spiders are very foreign to me. Although I know a lot about tarantulas, true spiders are not my specialty. I don't own any Phiddipus regius, but I do have my curiosity on them which is why I made this thread. If "morphs" do exists and does prove out for P. regius, I wonder what people call those morphs.

If any P. regius breeders read this I would like to know if they are possible to polygenically breed and pass down the colors from one generation to the next.

If you breed a dark form (black) regius to a red regius, you will get black, red, brownish, tan, peach and light colors, depending on luck. There is no such thing as line or "proven morph" breeding except for maybe 2-4 breeders worldwide. You cannot inbreed in spiders this small, it immediately kills their ability to reproduce in 1-2 generations and in general, just bad for them. You must spend YEARS getting spiders to consistently produce 1 color morph. Genuinely.

These spiders have a natural ability to produce offspring of many appearances and sizes. That just seems to be a feature of regius. Ive seen many times a spider looks nothing like their parents or grandparents.

I think its possible to prove out color, but only with 4-10 years of work. And you will still get oddballs in the years 4-6 at least. Like i said, you also cannot inbreed, it will completely kill your line, so you need to find spiders unrelated that appear like yours- not actually difficult, to be honest. However, if you truly want to prove out them without taking 10 years to do it, you will need to be breeding multiple unrelated lines, so that you can continually improve the ratio of proven color in offspring. Its basically *the most work you will ever do* in a breeding hobby, which is why they are becoming more expensive.

TLDR; There ARE morphs, you can eventually breed true, but not without almost a decade of dedicated work and careful selection, genetic family trees, and avoiding inbreeding. And yes, they are getting more expensive, and yes, they are worth it. the work being put in to producing them is definitely underpaid, to be honest.

if you want my 10 cents on costs...WC specimens should be dirt cheap, 10-20 each and CB ones should be 25-60 each.

WC SO often perform incredibly poorly as pets, not just because they are usually caught older and die within 1-8 months (on average what ive seen) but because their genetics are a total mystery, ive seen 12 different breeders pair a wc female only for them to lay completely doomed clutches, over and over, a waste of a lot of time, effort, and care especially if youve bonded to the spider and truly want to see their offspring succeed, there is no greater sadness than realizing they cannot actually produce offspring, genetically Besides the usual risk of mold, infection, parasites, and how often wc spiders are injured permanently (adults losing legs do not grow back, ever. also scraped off hair from being caught) and their temperaments sometimes being incredibly fearful/shy of humans. One of the best things about jumpers as pets is you can handle and interact with them a ton, if they are properly socialized and handled.

Just my opinions from being in the hobby a few years. Its grown a lot, and i think the standards in it are higher than in a lot of hobbies, but honestly.. could be even better. Theres a lot of misinformation and a lot of people who just dont see them as living things the same as a cat or dog, but they are just as interactive and full of personality as a mammal, to be honest.

 

[julie626]

If you breed a dark form (black) regius to a red regius, you will get black, red, brownish, tan, peach and light colors, depending on luck. There is no such thing as line or "proven morph" breeding except for maybe 2-4 breeders worldwide. You cannot inbreed in spiders this small, it immediately kills their ability to reproduce in 1-2 generations and in general, just bad for them. You must spend YEARS getting spiders to consistently produce 1 color morph. Genuinely.

These spiders have a natural ability to produce offspring of many appearances and sizes. That just seems to be a feature of regius. Ive seen many times a spider looks nothing like their parents or grandparents.

I think its possible to prove out color, but only with 4-10 years of work. And you will still get oddballs in the years 4-6 at least. Like i said, you also cannot inbreed, it will completely kill your line, so you need to find spiders unrelated that appear like yours- not actually difficult, to be honest. However, if you truly want to prove out them without taking 10 years to do it, you will need to be breeding multiple unrelated lines, so that you can continually improve the ratio of proven color in offspring. Its basically *the most work you will ever do* in a breeding hobby, which is why they are becoming more expensive.

TLDR; There ARE morphs, you can eventually breed true, but not without almost a decade of dedicated work and careful selection, genetic family trees, and avoiding inbreeding. And yes, they are getting more expensive, and yes, they are worth it. the work being put in to producing them is definitely underpaid, to be honest.

if you want my 10 cents on costs...WC specimens should be dirt cheap, 10-20 each and CB ones should be 25-60 each.

WC SO often perform incredibly poorly as pets, not just because they are usually caught older and die within 1-8 months (on average what ive seen) but because their genetics are a total mystery, ive seen 12 different breeders pair a wc female only for them to lay completely doomed clutches, over and over, a waste of a lot of time, effort, and care especially if youve bonded to the spider and truly want to see their offspring succeed, there is no greater sadness than realizing they cannot actually produce offspring, genetically Besides the usual risk of mold, infection, parasites, and how often wc spiders are injured permanently (adults losing legs do not grow back, ever. also scraped off hair from being caught) and their temperaments sometimes being incredibly fearful/shy of humans. One of the best things about jumpers as pets is you can handle and interact with them a ton, if they are properly socialized and handled.

Just my opinions from being in the hobby a few years. Its grown a lot, and i think the standards in it are higher than in a lot of hobbies, but honestly.. could be even better. Theres a lot of misinformation and a lot of people who just dont see them as living things the same as a cat or dog, but they are just as interactive and full of personality as a mammal, to be honest.

I'm curious if you can tell early on if the clutch will have "doomed" genetics? Or what the signs are?

I am raising a clutch and they all seem very small for their instar and seem to have unexplainable deaths randomly in the clutch. Even the older ones, i6/i7, will have random deaths. Mom was WC. This is my first sac so I'm unsure if this is normal. I'm starting to worry if any will make it to adulthood now though. Do you have any insight? Any help is appreciated!

 

[egyptiancrow]

I'm curious if you can tell early on if the clutch will have "doomed" genetics? Or what the signs are?

I am raising a clutch and they all seem very small for their instar and seem to have unexplainable deaths randomly in the clutch. Even the older ones, i6/i7, will have random deaths. Mom was WC. This is my first sac so I'm unsure if this is normal. I'm starting to worry if any will make it to adulthood now though. Do you have any insight? Any help is appreciated!

Yes there are signs! it unfortunately can vary a ton. Especially by species. For the largest phidippus species, unfortunately it can take a while to realize theres a doomed or partially doomed clutch because they tend to survive longer than other species even with bad genetics, if given good care. So you may not realize since the first few waves of losses in instar 1-4 are pretty normal, until they are juvies and still dropping. Usually signs of this are a smaller clutch than 100 (later clutches from females will almost always be less than 100, and often do poorer than their first few clutches. i chalk this up to the eggs being older inside her, and less viable.)
poor feeding/hunting ability, a larger amount of runts than you usually see in a clutch, and more cannibalism than you usually see in a clutch. Siblings will kill siblings they know are not healthy. So if you see more or earlier signs of cannibalism, it can be a signal they are noticing weaker siblings.

In other species of phidippus that arent quite as large, usually doomed clutches will just die off from 70-99% of all babies in the first 2 instars. Usually only 1-5 babies will survive, if any, to i3. After that, sometimes one will make it, usually none do

WC females and second generation cb spiders often have these issues and of course, no one can tell from the outside. Ive had perfectly healthy, voracious, large females lay doomed clutch after clutch, even with multiple male pairings, no matter what temp or humidity or feeders. Its part of why I think we need more emphasis on captive bred lines with diverse, but carefully sourced genetics, so that we eventually end up with lines of spiders that we know do not produce doomed clutches anymore.

WC females are honestly like a roulette, but its the same with cb spiders of few generations as well. And if you are hoping to breed a line, never pick a runt baby from a later clutch... always pick a normal sized baby from one of the first two clutches, if you can help it. they tend to do the best and have the longest lasting health.

 

[julie626]

Yes there are signs! it unfortunately can vary a ton. Especially by species. For the largest phidippus species, unfortunately it can take a while to realize theres a doomed or partially doomed clutch because they tend to survive longer than other species even with bad genetics, if given good care. So you may not realize since the first few waves of losses in instar 1-4 are pretty normal, until they are juvies and still dropping. Usually signs of this are a smaller clutch than 100 (later clutches from females will almost always be less than 100, and often do poorer than their first few clutches. i chalk this up to the eggs being older inside her, and less viable.)
poor feeding/hunting ability, a larger amount of runts than you usually see in a clutch, and more cannibalism than you usually see in a clutch. Siblings will kill siblings they know are not healthy. So if you see more or earlier signs of cannibalism, it can be a signal they are noticing weaker siblings.

In other species of phidippus that arent quite as large, usually doomed clutches will just die off from 70-99% of all babies in the first 2 instars. Usually only 1-5 babies will survive, if any, to i3. After that, sometimes one will make it, usually none do

I really appreciate your response this really helps!

I wish more people would talk about these considerations when breeding or raising a clutch. I feel like so many are trying to get their foot in it without taking consideration of the responsibility of breeding and knowledge on how to make sure they are doing it in a sustainable manner.

The clutch I was concerned about being doomed has deaths still but they are slowing. Some are making it to i8/i9. Unfortunately, its down to about 15-20 slings now. I only started with about 80 so it was a smaller clutch. The mom was WC so im unsure what number clutch this is for her. She has laid two more with me. The second just emerged and only has around 50 slings. I'm speculating maybe these are later clutches from her and possibly the reason they are not doing very well.

Do you see any slings make it to maturity in doomed clutches?

WC females are honestly like a roulette, but its the same with cb spiders of few generations as well. And if you are hoping to breed a line, never pick a runt baby from a later clutch... always pick a normal sized baby from one of the first two clutches, if you can help it. they tend to do the best and have the longest lasting health.

I appreciate this info! People make it sound like if you get a WC female she is guaranteed to lay clutch after clutch of 100+ eggs. When in reality, like you said, we don't know the female's genetics and any clutch she has could be is a toss up.

WC females and second generation cb spiders often have these issues and of course, no one can tell from the outside. Ive had perfectly healthy, voracious, large females lay doomed clutch after clutch, even with multiple male pairings, no matter what temp or humidity or feeders. Its part of why I think we need more emphasis on captive bred lines with diverse, but carefully sourced genetics, so that we eventually end up with lines of spiders that we know do not produce doomed clutches anymore.

I completely agree that their should definitely be an emphasis on captive breeding to prevent pairing females with undesirable genetics unknowingly.

I'm curious about this happening in cb spiders after a few generations. Have you found any particular reason this happens?

I'm just starting my jumping spider breeding journey so I really appreciate the info you've given!

 

[MYTHIC PHIDS]

Fantastic thread!