I've got a problem here

belewfripp

Arachnobaron
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My first T, an Aphonopelma seemanni named Sappho (back when I still named them) has attempted to molt right-side-up. I found her today while doing feeding, she hadn't gotten much of the legs out yet, just past the coxa it looks like. I promptly, but gently, scooped her up and laid her on her back, upped the humidity in the tank some more and dribbled a little water over her (not on the abdomen though). I have no idea if she is still alive, although the exo still seems fresh, it wasn't dry and crispy, very moist and soft feeling. What else should I do? If she hasn't made improvement in a while should I attempt to rmove the old exo and hope she's alive? Any way to tell if she's alive other than smell? thanks

Adrian
 

MrDeranged

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How long ago did this happen? Have you seen any movement whatsoever since you turned her over? Any sign of hemolymph leaking? Sorry I can't be of more help....

Scott
 

looseyfur

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ruff

:( Thats a ruff molt story ashame as well I truly love that T.
I thought I had read some similar ruff sideways molts with good results thats something I would keep my eye on 24/7 untill it was either fine (perhaps with help even) or freezer time :mad:

I am not telling you anything you dont know so hows about keep posting and good luck to her.


700sey
fur

e.
 

arachnopunks

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I think you have the right idea. Anytime we have ever interfered in a problematic molt, we have regretted it in retrospect. Just cover the enclosure and hope for the best. My husband's first spider, a Chilean Rose somehow injured herself and started limping. She was really in bad shape and we tried to mend the wound with newskin, the only thing we knew to do at the time. She ended up flipping over and trying to force a molt, but she didn't make it. I can't help but wish we had left her alone. Your instincts were right, raise the humidity and let her be. I really hope she makes it. Maybe someone else on here knows something else to do, that is my $0.02.
 

belewfripp

Arachnobaron
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Originally posted by mrderanged
How long ago did this happen? Have you seen any movement whatsoever since you turned her over? Any sign of hemolymph leaking? Sorry I can't be of more help....

Scott

I discovered it about 15 minutes ago. Saw no movement, but I mainly wanted to get her flipped over and not bug her or screw up her legs so I didn't scrutinize very much. No signs of leaking hemolymph, though.

Adrian
 

MrDeranged

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When checking for movement, you have to look very closely. There may be periods of seeming inactivity, especially after moving her at such a vulnerable time, but if you look really closely, you should see some signs of movement in the legs or abdomen. Your best bet right now is to do NOTHING. Just leave her be and keep a close eye on her. If you see movement, she'll probably be just fine. Keep us updated...

Scott
 

Immortal_sin

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I wish I could be of more help, but I am not sure that you can do anymore than you have. However, I'll tell you my A seemanni story, and it might give you some hope.
My first T I bought was an A seemanni, kept on pine bark (ugh) that molted 6 days after I bought him/her.
It took 28 HOURS and looked much the same as you are describing yours. Except for the right side up part. I was frantic...even though I was super new to T keeping, I knew that it was not normal, and that the more time that passed, the more likely the poor thing was to get caught in the old exoskelaton.
I purchased some glycerine, and made a solution (probably about 1/2 and 1/2 with water- can't remember). I was way panicked!
Anyway, I used a paintbrush and brushed it on the legs. It ended up being able to extract all but the left palp. He/she is alive and well today, having molted again earlier this year, with a smaller, but regenerated palp.
I didn't think they would survive being stuck that long, but this one did
Good luck
Holley
 

Code Monkey

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I would not have interfered mid moult like that myself, and if I did, I would have gone for a side position instead of completely inverting the T. So many little things need to go right once the actual moulting has begun that I really doubt that the chances of harm coming from the T moulting upright are greater than the chances of me either injuring or otherwise causing the T to try and halt mid moult and dying because of that.

Once the actual moult gets going, it's usually completely out of the old skin within just a couple of hours, if you observe her longer than say two hours with no obvious progress then things have definitely gone south and no more harm will come of you trying to free her yourself, although the chances aren't good if all her limbs are still in the old exuvia.

Sorry to not be giving out much hope here, hopefully I'm just being my usual doom and gloom self.
 

belewfripp

Arachnobaron
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She's alive. Detected some movement and she has pulled out further from the old exo. However, only one side seems to be making progress. The other seems very much trapped. I could be mistaken, but it looks like if she makes it, it is going to be sans legs and pedipalps for her whole right side. On the plus side, her abdomen is free and clear with no signs of injury. If you're interested in updates, I am posting this pretty much real-time, and will continue to do so if anything eventful happens as I finish feeding the Ts. Thanks for the help folks.

Adrian
 

belewfripp

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Originally posted by Code Monkey
I would not have interfered mid moult like that myself, and if I did, I would have gone for a side position instead of completely inverting the T. So many little things need to go right once the actual moulting has begun that I really doubt that the chances of harm coming from the T moulting upright are greater than the chances of me either injuring or otherwise causing the T to try and halt mid moult and dying because of that.


The old exo is still very soft and flexible, and due to the way her legs are angled right now, had I placed her sideways, the old legs would have been rolled under, so to speak, and I don't want to risk deforming the legs. Thanks for the advice though.

Adrian
 

arachnopunks

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We have also had success with a 1:6 water, glycerin solution, but we have only used it to get out one leg or a piece of the abdomen. It does work if you NEED to do it, but she seems to have it under control herself. The time we had to remove a molt from a spiderling's leg, the spider actually flipped back over and was trying to walk around with the exo still attached. The is when we finally stepped in.
 

Code Monkey

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That's good to hear. I wouldn't jump the gun on assuming anything is stuck just yet. I've seen moults that favor one side over another. If you've got it, getting the glycerine solution ready just in case doesn't sound like a bad idea just in case.
 

belewfripp

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Ok folks, what do I do: she hasn't made any progress in close to an hour and a half. I don't have glycerin on hand. However, she is still alive and moving. If I'm going to help her, I can't stay up all night -- I have to be somewhere early tomorrow morning. Do I leave her be and hope? Or do I attempt to remove her from the exo manually? I keep thinking about the one that took over a day to molt and think that maybe that will be similar here and trying a manual removal will jeopardize what may go ok anyway. But I don't want to leave her like that if she isn't going to be able to get out.


Adrian
 

Botar

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If you've got a clean artist-type paint brush, or something similar, try applying just some plain warm tap water to the stuck areas on the old skin. That shouldn't cause too much stress and may soften up the old skin enough for her to do the rest on her own. If not, she'll lose some or all of the stuck legs. I had a T. blondi that lost 3 in a bad molt and recovered nicely.

Botar
 

Code Monkey

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Tough call. If the abdomen is free, I would go to bed and see what happens. It's only been about 2hrs from your initial post, that's not that long. I just would have no faith in my ability to manipulate a 'soft-shelled' T without doing more damage than is potentially already done.

She can breath if the abdomen is free, and she may be in a better position than you to decide what, if anything needs to be autotomised, etc. If nothing has changed by morning, make the mental note to get the glycerine at the drug store and go from there. Tomorrow, the exposed ceph and abdomen are going to be hardened up and there will be less chance of you rupturing her in the process of freeing legs if that's what needs to be done.
 

belewfripp

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Ok, I'm going to apply some warm water as Botar suggested and then leave the T overnight as CM has suggested and I will go from wherever the T is in the morning. thanks.

Adrian
 

belewfripp

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She's Gone

Well, that's what I was going to do. I noticed she had a fang problem and was going to just remove the old cheliceral segments before going to bed when I realized the old exo was flaky and brittle. And underneath, the new exo was pretty dark -- normal-looking color, even. She'd been at this longer than just a few hours -- I'd say a day, if not a little longer. Manual removal now became a necessity -- she wasn't getting out any other way. After completely removing the old chelicerae, and the old exo from a pedipalp and three legs it became obvious that her legs are severely deformed. The last definite sign of life I saw from her was about half an hour ago, a slight twitch. Throughout the procedure I continued to place droplets of water on her mouth to help her out but the legs were just too badly deformed and she seemed very weak. I feel horrible because yesterday was going to be feed day but I got backed up with other things. Had I gotten to her then, she likely would have just started the molt and I could have gotten her flipped over and it would have been alright. I removed all of her old exo to be sure but she is gone. I assume the stress must have been her downfall, as deformed legs in itself is not death -- either that or she (or I) injured her somehow, internally. Thanks to everyone for their advice, anyway. If nothing else, I have hands-on experience with exo removal now, although I'd rather I'd never had to do that in the first place.


Adrian
 

Code Monkey

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Well, crap! Get up at the crack of dawn and check to see if there's an update... and there is.

Sorry to hear this. You definitely tried and that's what counts. My older Ts tend to coincide their moults with the hours I'm in bed, if this was the case here there was probably nothing you could have done anyhow as, like you guessed, she'd been like that since sometime the middle of the previous night. Sorry again and I wish your other Ts better luck in the future.
 
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