Is this supposed to happen? Incredibly fast egg development

[Alice]

hi all,

maybe some of you read that i had to pull my a. versicolor's sac very early (around week 3) because she threatened to eat it.

so, here's the timetable, and honestly, i'm confused!

- pulled sack the weekend before last, as the sack was damaged, i spilled the eggs out: only eggs, no development, but all fertile and well looking.
put them in homemade incubator and rotated them every few hours

- last thursday, 5 days after pulling the sac: eggs molted into eggs with legs, all of them within 24 hours, no eggs without development

- TODAY, only 5 days after molting into postembryos, they have started to molt again

i just went home in my lunch break to rotate them, and there already were 4-5 mobile little critters wiggling their pale yellowish legs around.

so how can they develop that quickly??? i thought it would take them at least 2 weeks before the next stage?
anyone else had this happen? is it a bad sign? they look good though. i never had eggs develop that quickly... so any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[SavageDigital]

If they appear healthy, I can't see that as a bad sign - but that's just reasoned guess.

 

[Talkenlate04]

I am pretty sure that has to do with the elevated humidity and temps you were keeping them at. But its not a bad thing. They are living off the yoke so to speak so you dont have to worry about feeding them quite yet. Congrats on the success!

 

[Alice]

oh wow!

i came home from work, and guess what? most of the postambryos have molted and are wiggling around their pale legs!

i separated the newly molted wiggly ones (what are they called in english?) from the postembryos. there are over 100 molted ones (too nervous to keep a good count, i lost track at 80) and about another 25 postembryos.

so far, there are only two eggs without development, and one of them is already being sucked out...

i took some pics and omg, in the half hour i needed to separate them and get the cam, already more are molting!

 

[Alice]

so what do you think? maybe i'll get little slings in another 5 days

 

[KJE]

At that stage they are considered 1st instar. Most people do not separate until they are 2nd instar. They are still pretty fragile at that stage. Good luck!

 

[Alice]

i only separated the 1. instars from the postembryos - they just needed more space. i have not damaged a single one of them (working with slightly moist paper to roll the 1st instars into the new container) but jeez, was i anxious and careful.

so if it took the postembryos 5 days to molt into first instar, how long do you think it will take the 1st instars to molt into 2nd instar? bets are on . i'll keep you posted on how this turns out.

 

[tarantulas.com]

I have had this happen w/ A. versicolor once. I attributed it to temps. that were too low during the eggsac construction. I think that they lagged behind, and than when they were put into the incubator they seemed to "catch up". They eventually molted into normal healthy slings...Good luck.

 

[Alice]

thx a lot.

so here my update for this morning: when i woke up, there were only two eggs left without development, and were in the process of being sucked out. ALL others have molted into 2nd instar :worship:

that makes a total of 4 undeveloped/bad eggs so far, and over 150 healthy 2nd instars . i put them all in a bigger box with slightly moist paper towels and continue keeping them warm. i just hope that they will molt out fine - i just worry a lot because this sac is so unusual (for me, never pulles one so early or had it develop so quickly).

 

[DrAce]

I don't think there is any real set time-course for egg development. There are so many variables which will affect them, including temperature, humidity, time of day they were set down (and I mean that seriously), hormonal levels in Mum... the list could go for some time. You can also include things like what Mum was fed on.

In my lab we're currently trying to establish what happened about 5pm wednesday last week... suddenly all the mice embryos we were dealing with have keeled over, and stopped growing. In incubators, with control of Carbon Dioxide levels, Oxygen levels, temperature, humidity, etc. With the purest water money can't buy...

Embryology is a pain in the ass, but it's interesting (when it works).

 

[Alice]

i know that they can develop at very different speed... but this is just so quick - like they were making up the time their mom wasted till she finally made a sac

 

[Alice]

oh wow, this sac is a nightmare... what can go wrong, will...

yesterday i came home from work to find the poor 1st instars nearly boiled, because my heat mat broke and got much too hot (usually it is set at 30°c, heating the eggs to about 26-28°c).:wall: i guess the container was at about 40°c, at least the lower part. no idea how long they've been like this.

well i got them out of the oven and cooled them down, than put them on a different heat mat again. miraculously, they are still wiggling! i suppose all would have dried out and died if i didn't keep them so moist. i have no idea how many - if any - have died, but most are still moving.

so that's a good sign, is it? or can those alive still die from the temp shock 12-24 hours later? any reassurance would be very helpful .

 

[DrAce]

The effect of temperature is really very varied, and I think you can be certain you've saved some of the still wiggling ones.

I would, however, expect some of them to pass away in the next few days.

 

[Alice]

just a quick update: so far, non of the 1st instars have died.. either they are more robust than we we all thought, or they will die off when molting... we'll se, i'll keep you posted.

 

[Alice]

another update

oh wow, those 1st instars sure make up for the quick development from postembryos... so far, not one of them has molted into 2nd instar, though they are as dark as they get.

well, i'll post a pic this evening and you tell me what you think of it.

on the positive side: i've not lost a single one of the 1st instars so far, they seem to do well other than refusing to molt

 

[golda]

lucky stiff... :clap: i hope everything turns out well.. just curious how many species have you had an egg sac with?

 

[Alice]

not really certain... but certainly the most nightmarish to sort through has been d. fasciatus . this is my first avic sac though, and i'm pretty nervous since so many things went wrong.:wall:

 

[DrAce]

Are they not moulting because they're returning back to the normal time-line?

If you ignore the first fast moult, perhaps they're just second-moulting on time?

 

[Alice]

well, then actually yes... but they are so dark... and some look just ready to burst... here are some pics, they've been this dark for several days!

 

[KJE]

Awe, they are so cute! Looks like they should molt any day now.